Have you worked out how to do it Triode?
Chord Electronics - Blu Mk. 2 - The Official Thread
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Crgreen
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Have you set the sample rate switch to the up position which retains the original sampling? To compare with the m-scaler you'd then have to put it to the down position.
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Triode User
Member of the Trade: WAVE High Fidelity
My Blu2 after a few weeks of ownership.
Sorry if this is a bit long but I wanted to share my Hi Fi journey with you up to the point where I now have a Blu2 and Dave sat on the floor. There will be pictures, there will be some thoughts on the Blu2 having had it for a few weeks now and there will be some music suggestions.
Sorry about the length and some of the rambling thoughts.
Contents.
1. THE ITCH
2. PICTURES
3. MY THOUGHTS
4. NO CDs WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS POST.
(Some suggested listening).
1. THE ITCH.
My interest, or until a few years ago, disinterest in DACs went way back to the early 1990’s when I bought an Audio Alchemy DDE (Digital Decoding Engine) 1.0 complete with walwart power supply (soon upgraded to the optional Power Station Two) and settled down to 20 years or so of blissful music with my Spendor S100 speakers, Audio Innovations L2 Pre Amp and Second Audio monos with Border Patrol Power Supplies.
I mean, what could change? I had selected what I thought was the best or at least the best I could afford and the system sounded amazing. I didn’t read any hi-fi magazines during those years and the internet hadn’t been invented i.e. no Head-Fi to dangle possible alternatives.
But then I innocently went round to a client’s house to give some architectural advice (it’s my day job) and he had his father’s cast off system of Bel Canto amps with an Arcam CD player (the one with the dCS Ring Dac) and a pair of Quad 2805 electrostatics.
Three hours later we had not discussed a single aspect of his proposed build project and instead I had been given a whirlwind update as to where CD/Dac technology had gone not to mention the crystal clear and quite amazing Quad speaker sound. I left his house with dozens of CD cases discarded randomly around his room and agreed to go back to discuss the project later. More of that anon.
Back at home my system didn’t sound so wonderful any more. Retail therapy was the answer and it soon put me in a better frame of mind. A Chord Hugo was ordered.
Compared to the DDE the Chord Hugo had so much detail, was more musical and simply put a smile back on my face listening to music on my system. Notice that I deliberately did not say, “when listening to my system”.
After about 18 months the Hugo was relegated to my home office system and a Chord HugoTT came into the main system. About that time the Audio Innovations amps also went into the home office and a pair of Icon Audio MB845Mk2 amps came into the main system. It was clear that the HugoTT was better than the Hugo. Quite a lot better in fact.
But if that was the case, how much better was the Dave which had just been released?
And so started a little itch.
I scratched the itch a bit by swopping a valve preamp for a Music First Silver wound Classic. In a way scratching the itch that way just made it itch more.
So I gave in and phoned Fanthorpes in Hull, UK (nice guys to deal with by the way) and got a good part exchange deal on my HugoTT for the Dave.
Boy oh boy, oh boy. The Dave was in a different league to any other DAC I had heard.
More detail, more instruments that I hadn’t heard before. More musical. More fun. More joy. More smiles.
No more itches.
Until I ventured onto Head-Fi. As you know, Rob Watts and John Franks are quite active on here discussing their products, their hopes and their future projects. There was also a big buzz from Rob Watts about something called the MScaler that he had incorporated in the soon to be released Blu2 CD player. Everyone describes a new product as game changing but Rob was really giving this MScaler thing some big build up.
Was that an itch I just felt?
No, let’s wait and see what it’s like when it is released and then see if I still have an itch.
And then people start hearing the Blu2 at shows and posting on Head-Fi about how unprepared they were for the difference it makes to the Dave.
Yep, full blown itch all over with deep gouges that were barely healed over with scabs from scratching the first itch.
“Hello, is that Fanthorpes?”
“Yes, certainly Nick. We are taking pre-orders but a deposit will secure. Can you read out the long number across the top of the card when you are ready?”
That was at the beginning of February.
“Hello, is that Fanthorpes?”
“Yes, Nick, the Blu2 is going to ship the last week in March.”
Well anyway, none of us knew that Rob Watts was still fine tuning his code. Eventually the Blu2 arrived at the end of the first week in May.
Time for an interlude and some pictures.
PICTURES
The Blu2 and Dave are shown below. A lovely set of stands is made by Chord for the Dave and Blu2 but I would rather spend money on electronics.
Below is the back of the Blu2 showing the dual BNC connection to the Dave and the inputs. The Blu2 can accept digital signals for upscaling into a BNC input as well as the USB input. The Blu2 auto searches it’s inputs and auto selects them in a hierarchical way. If a CD is playing that gets priority, if there is no CD or it is paused then the USB input get priority. If there is no CD and no USB input then the BNC is selected. This seems to work very well for me rather than having manual switching.
Notice also the Dither switch and 3 position Sample rate switch. Regarding the dither switch Rob says, “Dither is added for CD player only; the feature is only for non-chord DAC's where the addition of dither can make a difference; it is only on Blu 2 because the feature was on Blu 1. I would not do it today. So the dither switch is used to set the video mode filter for USB and the SPDIF inputs, and the video mode setting clearly is not needed for the CD player.” In other words mostly keep dither off!
The 3 position sample rate switch is interesting because it provides a very direct and easy way to see how the music sounds at the different sample rates. This is not subtle and is easy to hear.
The photo below shows the dual BNC inputs to the back of the Dave. Rob Watts has recently done some testing of different length cables and also some $500 cables. From what I remember the longer cables seemed to get best results and his current theory is that this is due to RF rejection. Rob says he is going to do some more testing but his current advice for the BNC cables is “Yes there is a small difference; so far don't spend huge sums on audiophile cables, just quality RF cables.” I am using a pair of 1m Canare 75ohm BNC to BNC cables that I bought for about £20 each.
When the dual BNC connection to the Blu2 is selected the Dave locks onto the signal after about 3 seconds and the display shows 705.6kHz.
Rob and John have always said that the Dave can be used as a Pre Amp feeding into power amps (and indeed that they prefer it that way). For whatever reason I have never found this to give the best sound when going direct into either of my valve monos. I did have valve pre amps but have now settled on silver wound transformer volume controls (TVC) made by Music First Audio in the UK. This also means that I can keep the Dave output at round about 0dB. As an aside, I tried the Music First copper wound TVCs but found that the silver wound transformers gave a more open, less closed in sound.
This is the system set up in my study. As you can see it is mostly on the floor (mainly because of the 84 kg total weight of amplifiers!!) The Blu2 is sat on 1 inch rubber feet to keep it off the carpet and allow air flow underneath and around it. This is a foo free zone. Power cables are the stock ones provided with the amps and Chord kit. Other cables are just sensible, nothing exotic.
3. MY THOUGHTS
Rather than a blow by blow account referenced to each CD I would rather give an overall impression.
My first thought on listening to the Blu2 MScaler was that the bass was more noticeable. Rob Watts has commented on this himself and says that he was surprised at how much difference there was to the bass. He suspects that it is no so much the actual bass element but the more accurate way that the upper frequencies are being handled. Whatever the explanation there is no doubt that the Blu2 Dave combination is a very substantial improvement on the already very accurate bass of the Dave by itself.
The mid ranges and high frequencies are really more of the same. More distinction between the notes and individual instruments, more detail, more tuneful, more musical, more . . . . well in fact more of what Dave already offers. The overall effect is rather like an improved Dave. In other words similar to what I imagine Dave2 might be.
Also noticeable is that when complex orchestral passages get really loud and thunderous (Blu2/Dave does loud and thunderous rather well) there is no closing in of the sound, nor does the overall sound coalesce, each of the individual instruments retains it's own identity and can be picked out with pin point accuracy. The sound stage very very impressive with all types of music.
Some say that a transparent DAC can be achieved for a relatively modest outlay. Many then go on to say that having achieved that transparency there is no need to go beyond that. Transparency is after all ‘transparent’ and cannot be improved or made more transparent. I think the Blu2 Dave combination goes beyond transparency and shows the need for different sort of accuracy in the digital to analogue conversion. For me Rob Watts has shown that his MScaler redefines how CD / Red Book digital files can be converted back to analogue with an accuracy that makes me smile / grin inanely, every time I hear it. This magic works with CDs, streamed Tidal files, streamed internet radio and indeed with much maligned DAB radio.
Now, back to that client who started me looking again at HiFi. What happened there? Well I did go back and suggest a plan as to how to alter his house. He paid me my fee and I got him planning permission for the modifications and extension. He then decided to sell the house and he got a significant amount more for his house because of having the planning permission. Me, I've ended up spending quite a bit on Hi-Fi kit as a direct consequence of meeting him and there must be a moral there somewhere. However I do not regret any of it and in particular I do not regret have started a journey that has ended up with me having a Blu2 and Dave in my system. The client has, by the way, ended up as a good friend.
NO CDs WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS POST
Just for fun, try these :
A mind-blowing recording from 1987. They made good recordings (as well as my speakers!) in those days. Try track one and I defy you not to listen to the whole CD.
Track 7 The Howling Wolf
Simple acoustic music. Quite a contrast to The Planets but again is a stunning recording.
All of this CD from Laura Marling is simply delicious. Although I admit to struggling with track 5.
Cecilia Bartoli has am amazing voice. All of the CD is very good but if you just want to dip your toe in the water then try track 2.
Shelby Lynne, Just a Little Lovin’
Track 1. I dont care at all for the rest but the title track is mesmerising.
All of this. Sit back and smile.
Perhaps over listened to but track 10 does sound very good through the Blu2/Dave.
Sorry if this is a bit long but I wanted to share my Hi Fi journey with you up to the point where I now have a Blu2 and Dave sat on the floor. There will be pictures, there will be some thoughts on the Blu2 having had it for a few weeks now and there will be some music suggestions.
Sorry about the length and some of the rambling thoughts.
Contents.
1. THE ITCH
2. PICTURES
3. MY THOUGHTS
4. NO CDs WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS POST.
(Some suggested listening).
1. THE ITCH.
My interest, or until a few years ago, disinterest in DACs went way back to the early 1990’s when I bought an Audio Alchemy DDE (Digital Decoding Engine) 1.0 complete with walwart power supply (soon upgraded to the optional Power Station Two) and settled down to 20 years or so of blissful music with my Spendor S100 speakers, Audio Innovations L2 Pre Amp and Second Audio monos with Border Patrol Power Supplies.
I mean, what could change? I had selected what I thought was the best or at least the best I could afford and the system sounded amazing. I didn’t read any hi-fi magazines during those years and the internet hadn’t been invented i.e. no Head-Fi to dangle possible alternatives.
But then I innocently went round to a client’s house to give some architectural advice (it’s my day job) and he had his father’s cast off system of Bel Canto amps with an Arcam CD player (the one with the dCS Ring Dac) and a pair of Quad 2805 electrostatics.
Three hours later we had not discussed a single aspect of his proposed build project and instead I had been given a whirlwind update as to where CD/Dac technology had gone not to mention the crystal clear and quite amazing Quad speaker sound. I left his house with dozens of CD cases discarded randomly around his room and agreed to go back to discuss the project later. More of that anon.
Back at home my system didn’t sound so wonderful any more. Retail therapy was the answer and it soon put me in a better frame of mind. A Chord Hugo was ordered.
Compared to the DDE the Chord Hugo had so much detail, was more musical and simply put a smile back on my face listening to music on my system. Notice that I deliberately did not say, “when listening to my system”.
After about 18 months the Hugo was relegated to my home office system and a Chord HugoTT came into the main system. About that time the Audio Innovations amps also went into the home office and a pair of Icon Audio MB845Mk2 amps came into the main system. It was clear that the HugoTT was better than the Hugo. Quite a lot better in fact.
But if that was the case, how much better was the Dave which had just been released?
And so started a little itch.
I scratched the itch a bit by swopping a valve preamp for a Music First Silver wound Classic. In a way scratching the itch that way just made it itch more.
So I gave in and phoned Fanthorpes in Hull, UK (nice guys to deal with by the way) and got a good part exchange deal on my HugoTT for the Dave.
Boy oh boy, oh boy. The Dave was in a different league to any other DAC I had heard.
More detail, more instruments that I hadn’t heard before. More musical. More fun. More joy. More smiles.
No more itches.
Until I ventured onto Head-Fi. As you know, Rob Watts and John Franks are quite active on here discussing their products, their hopes and their future projects. There was also a big buzz from Rob Watts about something called the MScaler that he had incorporated in the soon to be released Blu2 CD player. Everyone describes a new product as game changing but Rob was really giving this MScaler thing some big build up.
Was that an itch I just felt?
No, let’s wait and see what it’s like when it is released and then see if I still have an itch.
And then people start hearing the Blu2 at shows and posting on Head-Fi about how unprepared they were for the difference it makes to the Dave.
Yep, full blown itch all over with deep gouges that were barely healed over with scabs from scratching the first itch.
“Hello, is that Fanthorpes?”
“Yes, certainly Nick. We are taking pre-orders but a deposit will secure. Can you read out the long number across the top of the card when you are ready?”
That was at the beginning of February.
“Hello, is that Fanthorpes?”
“Yes, Nick, the Blu2 is going to ship the last week in March.”
Well anyway, none of us knew that Rob Watts was still fine tuning his code. Eventually the Blu2 arrived at the end of the first week in May.
Time for an interlude and some pictures.
PICTURES
The Blu2 and Dave are shown below. A lovely set of stands is made by Chord for the Dave and Blu2 but I would rather spend money on electronics.
Below is the back of the Blu2 showing the dual BNC connection to the Dave and the inputs. The Blu2 can accept digital signals for upscaling into a BNC input as well as the USB input. The Blu2 auto searches it’s inputs and auto selects them in a hierarchical way. If a CD is playing that gets priority, if there is no CD or it is paused then the USB input get priority. If there is no CD and no USB input then the BNC is selected. This seems to work very well for me rather than having manual switching.
Notice also the Dither switch and 3 position Sample rate switch. Regarding the dither switch Rob says, “Dither is added for CD player only; the feature is only for non-chord DAC's where the addition of dither can make a difference; it is only on Blu 2 because the feature was on Blu 1. I would not do it today. So the dither switch is used to set the video mode filter for USB and the SPDIF inputs, and the video mode setting clearly is not needed for the CD player.” In other words mostly keep dither off!
The 3 position sample rate switch is interesting because it provides a very direct and easy way to see how the music sounds at the different sample rates. This is not subtle and is easy to hear.
The photo below shows the dual BNC inputs to the back of the Dave. Rob Watts has recently done some testing of different length cables and also some $500 cables. From what I remember the longer cables seemed to get best results and his current theory is that this is due to RF rejection. Rob says he is going to do some more testing but his current advice for the BNC cables is “Yes there is a small difference; so far don't spend huge sums on audiophile cables, just quality RF cables.” I am using a pair of 1m Canare 75ohm BNC to BNC cables that I bought for about £20 each.
When the dual BNC connection to the Blu2 is selected the Dave locks onto the signal after about 3 seconds and the display shows 705.6kHz.
Rob and John have always said that the Dave can be used as a Pre Amp feeding into power amps (and indeed that they prefer it that way). For whatever reason I have never found this to give the best sound when going direct into either of my valve monos. I did have valve pre amps but have now settled on silver wound transformer volume controls (TVC) made by Music First Audio in the UK. This also means that I can keep the Dave output at round about 0dB. As an aside, I tried the Music First copper wound TVCs but found that the silver wound transformers gave a more open, less closed in sound.
This is the system set up in my study. As you can see it is mostly on the floor (mainly because of the 84 kg total weight of amplifiers!!) The Blu2 is sat on 1 inch rubber feet to keep it off the carpet and allow air flow underneath and around it. This is a foo free zone. Power cables are the stock ones provided with the amps and Chord kit. Other cables are just sensible, nothing exotic.
3. MY THOUGHTS
Rather than a blow by blow account referenced to each CD I would rather give an overall impression.
My first thought on listening to the Blu2 MScaler was that the bass was more noticeable. Rob Watts has commented on this himself and says that he was surprised at how much difference there was to the bass. He suspects that it is no so much the actual bass element but the more accurate way that the upper frequencies are being handled. Whatever the explanation there is no doubt that the Blu2 Dave combination is a very substantial improvement on the already very accurate bass of the Dave by itself.
The mid ranges and high frequencies are really more of the same. More distinction between the notes and individual instruments, more detail, more tuneful, more musical, more . . . . well in fact more of what Dave already offers. The overall effect is rather like an improved Dave. In other words similar to what I imagine Dave2 might be.
Also noticeable is that when complex orchestral passages get really loud and thunderous (Blu2/Dave does loud and thunderous rather well) there is no closing in of the sound, nor does the overall sound coalesce, each of the individual instruments retains it's own identity and can be picked out with pin point accuracy. The sound stage very very impressive with all types of music.
Some say that a transparent DAC can be achieved for a relatively modest outlay. Many then go on to say that having achieved that transparency there is no need to go beyond that. Transparency is after all ‘transparent’ and cannot be improved or made more transparent. I think the Blu2 Dave combination goes beyond transparency and shows the need for different sort of accuracy in the digital to analogue conversion. For me Rob Watts has shown that his MScaler redefines how CD / Red Book digital files can be converted back to analogue with an accuracy that makes me smile / grin inanely, every time I hear it. This magic works with CDs, streamed Tidal files, streamed internet radio and indeed with much maligned DAB radio.
Now, back to that client who started me looking again at HiFi. What happened there? Well I did go back and suggest a plan as to how to alter his house. He paid me my fee and I got him planning permission for the modifications and extension. He then decided to sell the house and he got a significant amount more for his house because of having the planning permission. Me, I've ended up spending quite a bit on Hi-Fi kit as a direct consequence of meeting him and there must be a moral there somewhere. However I do not regret any of it and in particular I do not regret have started a journey that has ended up with me having a Blu2 and Dave in my system. The client has, by the way, ended up as a good friend.
NO CDs WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS POST
Just for fun, try these :
A mind-blowing recording from 1987. They made good recordings (as well as my speakers!) in those days. Try track one and I defy you not to listen to the whole CD.
Track 7 The Howling Wolf
Simple acoustic music. Quite a contrast to The Planets but again is a stunning recording.
All of this CD from Laura Marling is simply delicious. Although I admit to struggling with track 5.
Cecilia Bartoli has am amazing voice. All of the CD is very good but if you just want to dip your toe in the water then try track 2.
Shelby Lynne, Just a Little Lovin’
Track 1. I dont care at all for the rest but the title track is mesmerising.
All of this. Sit back and smile.
Perhaps over listened to but track 10 does sound very good through the Blu2/Dave.
Last edited:
Nice write up Triode User and well photographed. I like the Chord equipment in Black, my friend has it in the stand which looks great but a little bling.
Interesting you pointed out that the detail at the top end remained pretty much the same as DAVE but there were big improvements in the bottom end and soundstage. This is what I found.
An amazing system which pushed digital beyond anything I have heard and i feel is the benchmark for anyone listening to digital audio.
Interesting you pointed out that the detail at the top end remained pretty much the same as DAVE but there were big improvements in the bottom end and soundstage. This is what I found.
An amazing system which pushed digital beyond anything I have heard and i feel is the benchmark for anyone listening to digital audio.
Kamil21
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The question that I have for anybody who owns a Blu Mk2 is whether there is a substantial difference between a CD played on the transport vs the same CD ripped and played on a computer via the USB through the Blu USB input.
Only if there is a major improvement, woukd I not wait for a standalone scaler or Davina ADC.
Triode User
Member of the Trade: WAVE High Fidelity
I'm sorry I not done that comparison. However, it depends on how long you are prepared to wait for a stand alone scaler. ie how many years can you wait? Only you know that.
dmance
Member of the Trade: AudioWise Inc
@Triode User
Regarding your comments on using the Music First passive pre-amp vs DAVE direct. I know in several posts from Rob Watts and others that the increased sense of 'better sound' by adding devices to the chain is just subtle analog distortion - from a purely technical perspective. In my mind this is akin to the singer's voice after few bourbons, a tissue over the secondary microphones, a baffle shield on the drummer, re-arranging furniture in the recording venue. All subtle but audible and there is nothing wrong with tweaks to tune the music to our taste or time of year or time of life.
Its ironic, RW spends his lifetime working to seek full transparency and engineering out any and all forms of distortion ...only to have customers pile distortion back in. I wonder, though, if any future M-Scaler/DAVE2/Digital-Amp should have RW engineer in a digital equivalent of downstream analog distortion. Perhaps implementing a dozen or more settings that tickle our brain in different ways. A glorified version of the Hugo2 filter modes.
Regarding your comments on using the Music First passive pre-amp vs DAVE direct. I know in several posts from Rob Watts and others that the increased sense of 'better sound' by adding devices to the chain is just subtle analog distortion - from a purely technical perspective. In my mind this is akin to the singer's voice after few bourbons, a tissue over the secondary microphones, a baffle shield on the drummer, re-arranging furniture in the recording venue. All subtle but audible and there is nothing wrong with tweaks to tune the music to our taste or time of year or time of life.
Its ironic, RW spends his lifetime working to seek full transparency and engineering out any and all forms of distortion ...only to have customers pile distortion back in. I wonder, though, if any future M-Scaler/DAVE2/Digital-Amp should have RW engineer in a digital equivalent of downstream analog distortion. Perhaps implementing a dozen or more settings that tickle our brain in different ways. A glorified version of the Hugo2 filter modes.
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Yes it's quite a clear improvement. In fact, the difference is so noticeable, I'm now looking at buying my favourite digital songs in CD format!
Kamil21
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dmance
Member of the Trade: AudioWise Inc
I had a GoldNote CD1000 for a month - with a similar transport+ USB input feature set to Blu Mk2. I did fairly exhaustive A/B comparison of CD-thru-transport vs CD-rips-thru-USB-input. I proved to my ears that transparency is possible when your USB chain has been cleaned up. In my case it was an optimized PC playback and an Intona. Ain't no way i'm going back to shiny silver discs for my content.
Triode User
Member of the Trade: WAVE High Fidelity
I'm sorry but that is the complete opposite of what I am hearing by adding the MF TVC. Without it the bass is slightly wooly, ill defined etc. with the TVC all those issues disappear. Mid range also suffers without the TVC. Dave straight into my valve amps is quite impressive, via the TVC it is absolutely stunning. Note I am not a person who uses valves for a warm slightly distorted sound!
I feel a need to demonstrate this to @Rob Watts ! (as indeed I have done for many others but I suspect he might be a tad busy!) Rob, if you are inclined I'm happy to bring my amps to demonstrate.
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Actually I am not comparing via USB. Until recently I used an SMS-200 but my modded rednet 3 beat it so I'm using a BNC connection to my blu2, to compare against the blu2 cdp. The modded rednet 3 (with linear power supply) is also being fed by an LPS-1 driven optical converter. It's pretty transparent, musical and was more vivid than my SMS-200.
But it still loses to the cdp, using the same cd that was later ripped.
Now whether that's true for your USB chain, or true for your goldnote cd1000, I can't say...
Hmm... If your experience can be extrapolated to computer USB connections in general, then that is rather off-putting.
As someone who has recently discarded CDs in favour of computer source (via microRendu/LPS-1) because the latter (eventually) sounded better to my ears, I don't think I can now go back to CDs in order to get the best SQ. I've still got my CD collection stored away (just in case), so I'm quite happy to play the occasional CD for nostalgia's sake. But I don't think I'll be able to handle the situation where my nostalgia source sounds much better than the source I'll be using most of the time.
Edit: dmance's test shows YMMV. More reports required please on the USB input.
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stvc
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@Triode User, any reason why not set your dave to DAC mode but leave it with digital-pre @0db?
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Triode User
Member of the Trade: WAVE High Fidelity
As far as I am aware DAC mode does nothing apart from set the output to +3dB and disable the volume control. I prefer to have the option to vary the volume if I need to without having to get up from my desk (for instance if BBC Radio 3 puts on some modern plinkity plonk music).
PS, not quite sure what you mean by digital-pro@0dB.
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