[jetmantrunks]

hi everyone
Im new to the audiophile scene (not by choice, but by lack of income). up until now i've only had experience with sennheiser in-ear earphones, mostly of the cx range.
anyway i've been cruising websites and reading in this forum for well over a week, mainly taking into consideration the recommendations given toward the grado sr-60 and the reviews and opinions about DACs written by miguel and rob.
in the last few days i began to realize that the grado sr-60/80, although being my two year long goal are a rather impractical choice for me.
i live in Israel, and from what i read here, shipping them out of the US would cost me heavily. so i guess all my deliberations and planning went to the crapper.
 
bottom line, do you think i should spend as much as needed to get the grado sr-60/80 or hassle someone who flies to the US to buy them for me , or maybe just go with the alessandro which offer free worldwide shipping? i dont want to compromise with sound quality.
 
also since i understood that the sr-80 need amplification i started searching for a DAC+amp, since im going to play music solely from my pc, and the headphones will be stationary near the computer. my budget is 200-300$ including the headphones, i can stretch a bit more if necessary. so my second question is:
do the alessandro need amplification? and if so what could you recommend for that purpose? (i prefer something that is also a DAC or can be combined with a DAC in that budget because i get a lot of interference from my pc, and i would also like to try the whole bit-perfect thing)
i've been considering the audio-gd FUN, HLLY DMK-IV DAC, or maybe seperate DAC and one of these cmoy would suffice?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bass-Boost-cMoy-v2-02-Amp-Premium-Headphone-Amplifier-/140423631208?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b1e69168
http://cgi.ebay.com/Biosciencegeek-Headphone-Amplifier-cMOY-Premium-Amp-/130404933680?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5cbd6030
 
please give me your opinion, also if you can, specify if u know of a site i can get that gear from (one that ships to israel). i already know that HLLY ships free to israel and i've seen their auctions on ebay as well, and the cmoy can also be shipped here easily since it's small
 
thanks in advance, this means a lot to me

 

[Drubbing]

You won't compromise SQ with the Alessandro MS1, it's widely regarded as better than the SR80, and on a par with the SR125.
 
Grados/Alessandro do not needing amping. IME the low end Grados benefit very little from it. A better source than onboard PC sound however, is worthwhile. A decent aftermarket soundcard for your PC is really all you need. 

 

[jetmantrunks]

thanks for your input. i was under the impression, from what i read here, that the sr-80 are a must-amp. would a new soundcard for my pc suffice? bearing in mind that i want to get bit-perfect from it.
 
and btw im running a 64 bit xp OS, would that pose any problems with the drivers i would have to use to get bit-perfect, or to connect a DAC through usb?

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Quote:

. 

Grados/Alessandro do not needing amping. IME the low end Grados benefit very little from it. A better source than onboard PC sound however, is worthwhile. A decent aftermarket soundcard for your PC is really all you need. 

disagree with it, Aless or Grado need amping for really optimum performance. Yeah they sound good unamped, but just give it decent amp, and they will sound better
 
@OP
perhaps you can try Govibe Petite or Ordnance .25 (I love them for Aless MS1i)
 
or FWIR, Audinst also sounds great for Aless MS1i

 

[Jd007]

Just to confirm what Drubbing said above, the Alessandro version of the SR80 is considered to be better than the original. And to me (from experience with the Alessandro MS1), neither needs a standalone amp to sound good (of course getting a good amp will make it sound better, but TBH I don't think the ones in your eBay links will make that difference). Just spend the money on a decent sound card (ASUS Xonar, Auzentech, etc...).
 
64-bit OS shouldn't be a problem, as most sound card drivers have 64-bit system support. As for bit-perfect playback, it depends on what program you play music with and what the settings are, but generally foobar2000 + WASAPI/ASIO works fine (at least for me, but note that XP does not have WASAPI support).
 
One thing to note is that we are talking about a pair of Grado headphones after all, so it's got the "Grado sound". Reading reviews and other users' comments may not get you a perfect sense of what that is. Look at the FR graph of any Grado and you'll see the mid-bass hump and the steep drop in the lower range (more prominent in the higher end Grados), but that does not characterize the sound signature completely either. I mention this because it generates a love-hate relationship - some people love the Grado sound, while others not at all (myself included). If you can, I'd strongly recommend you try them before purchase (maybe listen to a friend's pair). But if you are sure you'll like them, you won't be disappointed and these are one of the best budget headphones out there.

 

[jetmantrunks]

ok so i went through all of TheMiddleSky's recommendations:
i've read this review of the petite:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/287689/review-go-vibe-petite-dac-amp-vs-d1
and i really liked all the praise it got all over the web, problem - only way i found to get one is through ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Go-Vibe-Petite-w-DAC-/110425348280?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19b5dd18b8
dont you think the price is a little steep for such an amp?
i've also found this, what do you think about it?:
http://www.unclewilsons.com/shop/step1.php?number=593
http://www.unclewilsons.com/shop/step1.php?number=587
 
and about this audinst you recomended (i suppose it's this one) the reviews arent exactly glowing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audinst-HUD-mx1-Hi-Fi-USB-Audio-DAC-/170499741275?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b293965b
 
the ordnance .25:
http://jaben.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=5038219254a237f107e15152b87ea846&topic=9984.15
after reading on i found that in some places it's said that its only a DAC for some reason :S. and also i havent been able to find one for sale anywhere.
 
also are these one any good?
http://www.unclewilsons.com/shop/step1.php?number=616
http://www.gak.co.uk/en/behringer-amp-800-headphone-amp/1177
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-AMP800-MiniAMP-4-Channel-Stereo-Headphone-Amplifier-182040-i1125160.gc
 
-----------------------------------------------
Jd007, is this the sound card you would recommend? if im not mistaken it should be around 85$ and fit nicely into my budget:
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php
 
so bottom line, if i go with the sound card im gonna have roughly 100$ more to spend on an amp, any suggestions for that price? or would i be better off to just buy a 150+- $ DAC/amp combo like TheMiddleSky suggested?
 
btw, by getting a soundcard instead of an external DAC, wont i be vulnerable to all sorts of interruptions from within the pc? like usb electricity, router signals and such?

 

[eucariote]

For your budget I'd recommend SR225 and a uDac amp/dac.  imo, the SR225 are extremely good headphones for the price, and because they don't require serious amplification you can put more towards the headphones.  The uDac is a very good and inexpensive dac that will improve the sound quality over your mac and provide adequate amplification for driving the headphones.  It also has a relatively warm sound that will complement the slightly bright signature of the Grados (opposed to a stock D10 for example that I found quite shrill with most Grados).  I've compared that combination to my ~$1,000 DacMagic dac + Mapletree tube amp and it comes very close in sound quality.  

 

[Mr Joboto]

A good soundcard has great performance for it's price, look into the Asus Xonar Essence STX if you don't know where to start.

 

[digitaldissent]

I have the MS1 and just installed the Asus STX on Win7 and it sounds great.

 

[Mr Joboto]

^ see

 

[jetmantrunks]

ok so the forum deleted the response i made 2 days ago, when i posted it, it said something about "witholding my post since im new", idk. anyway i'll try to restore what was lost:
 
Quote:

disagree with it, Aless or Grado need amping for really optimum performance. Yeah they sound good unamped, but just give it decent amp, and they will sound better
 
@OP
perhaps you can try Govibe Petite or Ordnance .25 (I love them for Aless MS1i)
 
or FWIR, Audinst also sounds great for Aless MS1i

i checked out all your recommendations, i came up with this: the petite isnt being made anymore apperantly and it's being sold for 195$. doesnt that seem a bit steep for a product of its nature?
the ordnance i couldnt find anywhere, i looked at reviews but nowhere to buy from.
the audinst is 179$ and seems nice. but, well read on to what i said to Jd's response below please
p.s i also stumbled across a few other options when i was searching yours, but the only one i remember after my post has disappeared is a matrix dac/amp. and also i think the audio-gd FUN (or maybe sparrow) can be bought for about 150$, are they good choices?
 
Quote:

Just to confirm what Drubbing said above, the Alessandro version of the SR80 is considered to be better than the original. And to me (from experience with the Alessandro MS1), neither needs a standalone amp to sound good (of course getting a good amp will make it sound better, but TBH I don't think the ones in your eBay links will make that difference). Just spend the money on a decent sound card (ASUS Xonar, Auzentech, etc...).

i guess im going for the allesandro than. they will be less trouble to get and apperantly would be a step up from the sr in my options. so forget about the sr-60/80 for now .
is this the card you ment from auzentech?
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php
or maybe the forte?
 
i really like the Asus Xonar Essence STX. it seems wicked and its got a headphone amp. but would that onboard amp be enough to drop an external amp?
anyway i need you guys to help me decide if im going with one of TheMiddleSky's recommendations for a dac/amp (or someone else's recommendations if u got any for me) or a sound card, because either one would finish my remaining budget from the allesandro

 
Quote:

For your budget I'd recommend SR225 and a uDac amp/dac.  imo, the SR225 are extremely good headphones for the price, and because they don't require serious amplification you can put more towards the headphones.  The uDac is a very good and inexpensive dac that will improve the sound quality over your mac and provide adequate amplification for driving the headphones.  It also has a relatively warm sound that will complement the slightly bright signature of the Grados (opposed to a stock D10 for example that I found quite shrill with most Grados).  I've compared that combination to my ~$1,000 DacMagic dac + Mapletree tube amp and it comes very close in sound quality.  

yeah but after the added cost of shipping the sr225 outside the us they will be way out of my budget
the uDac also seems a great choice, but since it isnt also an amp, and im going for the allesandro's, is there any not really expensive amp i can get in addition to it. you know, to finish off the bundle and maximize what i get out of the setup
 
Quote:

A good soundcard has great performance for it's price, look into the Asus Xonar Essence STX if you don't know where to start.

like i said, i really like it. but im a bit worried, their other card the HDAV1.3 has 4 layers of pcb reduce outside signal noise and the stx has 2. do you have any problems with noise from usb, bluetooth, wifi and such?

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Govibe Petite and Ordnance .25?
Easy, just order them from Jaben Network.
 
FYI, Petite also has DAC Function.
 
I know and I realize that each people has their own point to judge the sound. If some people said that Grado doesn't need amp (in this case MS1i), I'm fine with it, but for me personally and also some people out there, amp is a must if you want to know what Alessandro MS1i is.
 
Uhm yeah, I've ever tried Matrix Mini-i (Amp+DAC), but poor me, I'm not really focus about the sound at that time. 
 
What I remembered clearly is Matrix M-Stage, a powerfull desktop amp (you can find M-Stage review in this forum easily). Pair it with MS1i, it offering the really full midrange and punch low, if you love vocal so much, then you can try them.
 
I also have tried Gamma2, and I love how this DAC  work for MS1i, Gamma2 has neutral presentation and make the MS1i's treble more sparkle but also smoother at the same time.
 
Never tried Audio-Gd-FUN.

 

[jetmantrunks]

since im new to all this, did you mean jaben store? because they didnt have either. or the forum? because its all sorts of bundles and i got lost there :S (oh and it must be with shipping to israel)
 
i hope that previous post turns out, i wrote links to some amps and i didnt back them up :/
 
im frustrated, the gamma 2 is 300$ and the matrix m-stage is right around there. am i just too poor for a decent rig?

 

[Spelaeus]

I don't mean to thread-jack, but I've been on a similar search for an amp for my MS-1i lately. I find that it gets a modest gain in clarity even from the Fiio E5 that came with my Head Direct RE2, so I'd have to assume that it could use a better amp. For now, I need something that I can use with both my R61i thinkpad and line-out on my Zen Vision: W, so I'm skipping the DAC for the moment. I've mainly come down to either the Mini3 amp or the Little Dot I+, probably buying used or seeing if I can have someone build an A47. Or if the improvement would be significant, saving up for the full M^3 (again, likely used) once my finances are a little better. Of course I'm open to other suggestions, these just seem to be my best options from the research that I've done. Any thoughts?

 

[TheMiddleSky]

yep Jaben store... uhmm... I live at Indonesia, and yeah Jaben Indonesia has them (both Ordnance and Petite)
 
too poor? hell no, sure not, for my MS1i, now I'm running Ordnance DAC-1 with Ordnance .22 and use the Bowl Pad, I love this combination 

 
or the other way is, well, like what eucariote wrote, just get uDac. And to finish off the budget, just buy some pads, Bowl pad or Sennheiser HD414 pad, or perhaps TTVJ Flat pad.
 
Change the pad, and you will be surprised how the sound character also change significantly.