[Nimweth]

Interested to hear what you make of ESX. Bought the CRA recently. It's lovely. Perfectly competent but lacks the wow factor of my go to IEM the BA10. I have been alternating them with the Dee tee six. It too is better than the CRA. Those single dynamics just lack separation to my ears. Really tempted by the as16 pro.

Any other hybrids around that mark worth investing in??

You might want to try the TRN TA-1 Max which has many positive comments, or the Geek Wold GK10 (if you get a good one!). These are both excellent hybrids at a reasonable price. Also if you. Like the original Dee Tee Six, the Dee Tee Six Max which approaches the MT300 in sound quality is very good as well.

 

[tcheli]

Not sure what you mean by an intra. Are you after an IEM (in ear monitor)? Classical and instrumental would sound best on a neutrally tuned IEM. Pop and Rock you would be better with a "U" or "V" shaped signature. For $400 you could easily buy one of each. There is a insanely large number of options to choose from.

My suggestions would be:

ECCI YST-02 for a balanced signature with good details, that will sound good for vocals, instrumentals and classical at $75 (or TRI Starsea at $129)
Tipsy TTROMSO for a warm and engaging "V" shaped signature that will suit rock and some pop for $89 (or Audiosense AQ4 at $179)
None of these have harsh treble, if you want suggestions for IEMs with more prominent treble, you'll have to ask someone else.


You could also consider a planar within your budget, there are good options from $99 to $240. I'd limit planar choice to: TinHifi P1 Max, Letshoer S12, 7Hz Dioko, 7Hz Timeless or Raptgo Hooke X. It depends on what type of tuning you prefer (and how much you want to spend).

Watch youtube reviews and search for reviews on Hifi forums (here is good). It's far better to be warned that an IEM isn't what you want, rather than buying it and being disappointed. Just be aware that everyone's tastes are different.

Given that I listen to a lot of classical piano and guitar (I play these 2 instruments), and that I am really deeply touched by the voices, the acoustic guitars and pianos, and that "big bass touches me much less, it Seems to me that hybrid or planar EMPs would be more appropriate, right?
So I should favor IEMs with good midrange and treble?
my headphones are a sennheiser momentum and i like the sound. Bass but not in axcess, mids and highs well present, well detailed and good soundstage. What IEM could give me this type of sound, please?

 

[1clearhead]

Interested to hear what you make of ESX. Bought the CRA recently. It's lovely. Perfectly competent but lacks the wow factor of my go to IEM the BA10. I have been alternating them with the Dee tee six. It too is better than the CRA. Those single dynamics just lack separation to my ears. Really tempted by the as16 pro.

Any other hybrids around that mark worth investing in??

For the price the AS16 PRO is going for, they are worth every penny! I alternate them with my BA10 and Dee Tee Six M-A-X ever since I got them. They sound very good for the price even coming close to my all time favorite LZ A6 with good layering, technicality, and clarity. I bought the black AS16 PRO first, then bought the cyan one right after for backup. The price was too good to let them pass me by.

-Clear

 

[JEHL]

If I sell two kidneys I can afford a better IEM. Only one problem. Which IEM?

IIRC the Sennheiser HE-1 is asks about 1/3rd of a kidney.

 

[PhonoPhi]

IIRC the Sennheiser HE-1 is asks about 1/3rd of a kidney.

CCA CRA & Apple USB DAC are about $20, and getting significantly better needs 5-10 times if not more - talk about diminishing returns with the ChiFI and "price butcher" KZ.

 

[JEHL]

CCA CRA & Apple USB DAC are about $20, and getting significantly better needs 5-10 times if not more - talk about diminishing returns with the ChiFI and "price butcher" KZ.

The only reason I brought up the HE-1 is because of talking about selling kidneys... That's it actually.

It actually kind of threw me off just how many more entries Crinacle has given the 3 star value rating. AKA, Worth the blind. There used to be only 3 entries back when he repurposed the 3 star I believe.

In no particular order as of this comment: Final Audio E500, CCA CRA, Tripowin Leá, AKG EO-IG955, DUNU Titan S, Moondrop Aria, Moondrop Chu, Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0, Etymotic ER2, 7Hz Timeless and at the top of both ranking and price, the Moondrop Blessing 2.

I believe I may have already asked this before, but I wonder what your take on the idea of "Worth the blind" is and what's the most expensive IEM that meets your criteria of "Worth the blind"

That being said, I've been watching Crinacle for at least 4 years now and I still wonder what these... "intangibles/technicalities/techinical grade" are.

Because I mentioned before, I have much better knowledge on how loudspeaker work than headgear. Although that may come from the lack of headphone driver info.

I STILL don't know if the Salnotes Dioko is apparently so great at $99 despite using a PM driver or because of it. What does a $99 PM IEM do so well that no sub $100 DD could possibly do. Or the 7Hz Timeless at $199 for that matter.

It may sound like I'm overthinking it, but I eventually want to make an IEM. PROBABLY a dual DD (13+mm for under 200Hz and a 6-7mm for the rest, would need to test the smallest driver that could reach 200Hz without hitting Xmax).

I also wonder if it's entirely possible for someone to make a hypothetical IEM that met its target curve perfectly (maybe not deviate more than 0.5dB peak-to-peak, also let's just use Harman purely as an example. I don't think I need to be lectured about targets for the 12th time but I can't stop you if you insist) from 10Hz to 18+kHz, a step response completely free of any ringing on drivers, housing and even the nozzle and perfectly pistonic motions on their membranes, have virtually perfectly linear motors within their specified excursions granting them immeasurably low THD, and in the case of multiple drivers, have a perfectly time-aligned crossover that would result in -40dB null or even more if wired in reverse polarity from intended... And still get something like C- in technical grade, be it from Crinacle, Toranku, Super*, Precogvision, Banbeucmas, HBB, RikudouGoku, an F from Aminus, well this list could go on at this point. This may be an exaggeration, but I don't think it's a far one from reality either.

Wonder if I'll die of old age before I can go below puddle depth in the IEM rabbit hole.

I still don't understand when and which BAs to use over DD and why. But I now feel like no one could explain what purposes to each driver type fit in in a way I'd understand given the big paragraph above.

 

[PhonoPhi]

The only reason I brought up the HE-1 is because of talking about selling kidneys... That's it actually.

It actually kind of threw me off just how many more entries Crinacle has given the 3 star value rating. AKA, Worth the blind. There used to be only 3 entries back when he repurposed the 3 star I believe.

In no particular order as of this comment: Final Audio E500, CCA CRA, Tripowin Leá, AKG EO-IG955, DUNU Titan S, Moondrop Aria, Moondrop Chu, Lypertek PurePlay Z3 2.0, Etymotic ER2, 7Hz Timeless and at the top of both ranking and price, the Moondrop Blessing 2.

I believe I may have already asked this before, but I wonder what your take on the idea of "Worth the blind" is and what's the most expensive IEM that meets your criteria of "Worth the blind"

That being said, I've been watching Crinacle for at least 4 years now and I still wonder what these... "intangibles/technicalities/techinical grade" are.

Because I mentioned before, I have much better knowledge on how loudspeaker work than headgear. Although that may come from the lack of headphone driver info.

I STILL don't know if the Salnotes Dioko is apparently so great at $99 despite using a PM driver or because of it. What does a $99 PM IEM do so well that no sub $100 DD could possibly do. Or the 7Hz Timeless at $199 for that matter.

It may sound like I'm overthinking it, but I eventually want to make an IEM. PROBABLY a dual DD (13+mm for under 200Hz and a 6-7mm for the rest, would need to test the smallest driver that could reach 200Hz without hitting Xmax).

I also wonder if it's entirely possible for someone to make a hypothetical IEM that met its target curve perfectly (maybe not deviate more than 0.5dB peak-to-peak, also let's just use Harman purely as an example. I don't think I need to be lectured about targets for the 12th time but I can't stop you if you insist) from 10Hz to 18+kHz, a step response completely free of any ringing on drivers, housing and even the nozzle and perfectly pistonic motions on their membranes, have virtually perfectly linear motors within their specified excursions granting them immeasurably low THD, and in the case of multiple drivers, have a perfectly time-aligned crossover that would result in -40dB null or even more if wired in reverse polarity from intended... And still get something like C- in technical grade, be it from Crinacle, Toranku, Super*, Precogvision, Banbeucmas, HBB, RikudouGoku, an F from Aminus, well this list could go on at this point. This may be an exaggeration, but I don't think it's a far one from reality either.

Wonder if I'll die of old age before I can go below puddle depth in the IEM rabbit hole.

I still don't understand when and which BAs to use over DD and why. But I now feel like no one could explain what purposes to each driver type fit in in a way I'd understand given the big paragraph above.

Very good questions to think about and find your own answers.

I have some subjective answers, and just share few thoughts briefly.

I respect Crinacle, and that was one of the reason to get Dioko, I learned from it a lot, and started to appreciate it more and more from my original less resonating impressions.

I did not know CRA rating. I just bought one, and then few more.

All are blind purchases here, even before COVID. Even if you can test - I am convinced that one needs few days to properly test the IEM - tips, source, plus some time to appreciate the signature.
So I just have $150 limit.
I stopped using reviewers' recommendations long ago, my worst purchases were done using reviews, given a lot of shameless promotions of free samples ot just different biases and preferences.

On the contrary, AS16 (original) are the one of the best IEMs for me that I regret getting later because of reviewers (I am not disagreeing with those reviews, just for my preferences, AS16 happened to be one of the best at the time).

For the curves - sure, one can build a sophisticated multiple crossover, analogous to 25+ band DSP to attenuate response at all frequencies to the desired target perfectly (source impedance will also need to be controlled as a part of the circuitry).
In a combination with a poor single DD - this crossover would lead to failed technicalities. That is why crossovers are not built for single drivers, but some filters are typically used to trim the frequency response.
This crossover will be obviously better, but far from perfect, with a good DD, and even better with planars.
Then I am biased to multi-BA design being closer to ideal (most flexible and high on technicalities). BAs are light and responsive transducers though they are limited in their best response to 2-3 octaves, so many are needed and properly "stitching" them requires good engineering.
i would addgood piezo rather than EST on the top end, if needed. Piezo drivers are significantly underexplored and underutilized, IMHO.
Good bass BAs do exist - they are larger and quite expensive.
I could personally trust DD only for sub-65 Hz frequencies, not higher!

Having said it all, I would not chase any "TOTLs", it is just totally futile, in my opinion
Look at all the threads with whining about killobuck IEMs - just more expensive toys and the same imperfect humans, some of whom may sell their kidneys for their hobbies...

Many sub-$20 perfectly do for me to enjoy the music, so my multiple IEMs are just a consequence of attempts
on shopping therapy exacerbated by hoarding tendencies

 

[JEHL]

Very good questions to think about and find your own answers.

I have some subjective answers, and just share few thoughts briefly.

I respect Crinacle, and that was one of the reason to get Dioko, I learned from it a lot, and started to appreciate it more and more from my original less resonating impressions.

I did not know CRA rating. I just bought one, and then few more.

All are blind purchases here, even before COVID. Even if you can test - I am convinced that one needs few days to properly test the IEM - tips, source, plus some time to appreciate the signature.
So I just have $150 limit.
I stopped using reviewers' recommendations long ago, my worst purchases were done using reviews, given a lot of shameless promotions of free samples ot just different biases and preferences.

On the contrary, AS16 (original) are the one of the best IEMs for me that I regret getting later because of reviewers (I am not disagreeing with those reviews, just for my preferences, AS16 happened to be one of the best at the time).

For the curves - sure, one can build a sophisticated multiple crossover, analogous to 25+ band DSP to attenuate response at all frequencies to the desired target perfectly (source impedance will also need to be controlled as a part of the circuitry).
In a combination with a poor single DD - this crossover would lead to failed technicalities. That is why crossovers are not built for single drivers, but some filters are typically used to trim the frequency response.
This crossover will be obviously better, but far from perfect, with a good DD, and even better with planars.
Then I am biased to multi-BA design being closer to ideal (most flexible and high on technicalities). BAs are light and responsive transducers though they are limited in their best response to 2-3 octaves, so many are needed and properly "stitching" them requires good engineering.
i would addgood piezo rather than EST on the top end, if needed. Piezo drivers are significantly underexplored and underutilized, IMHO.
Good bass BAs do exist - they are larger and quite expensive.
I could personally trust DD only for sub-65 Hz frequencies, not higher!

Having said it all, I would not chase any "TOTLs", it is just totally futile, in my opinion
Look at all the threads with whining about killobuck IEMs - just more expensive toys and the same imperfect humans, some of whom may sell their kidneys for their hobbies...

Many sub-$20 perfectly do for me to enjoy the music, so my multiple IEMs are just a consequence of attempts
on shopping therapy exacerbated by hoarding tendencies

Well you probably heard this one many many times but I wonder if running a BA as a full range and then a DD to extend the low end and a piezo to extend the highs could be done... While keeping the IEM under $100, or maybe that could be stretched to $150 idk.

Forgot I had that particular idea like before I got my BL-03 even. A cheap but tuned like Moondrop Variations or something like that 1DD, 1BA and 1PCD(is that how you shorten Piezoelectric Ceramic Driver?).

If it somehow qualifies as a TOTL in the hands of reviewers. Well that'd be just a bonus at that point for me.

I just want to add to the pile of nice but reasonably priced gear.

Edit: Maybe it could be 1DD, 2BA and 1PCD instead in a 4-way. But I feel like that could greatly elevate the cost for not much return.

 

[Nimweth]

Well you probably heard this one many many times but I wonder if running a BA as a full range and then a DD to extend the low end and a piezo to extend the highs could be done... While keeping the IEM under $100, or maybe that could be stretched to $150 idk.

Forgot I had that particular idea like before I got my BL-03 even. A cheap but tuned like Moondrop Variations or something like that 1DD, 1BA and 1PCD(is that how you shorten Piezoelectric Ceramic Driver?).

If it somehow qualifies as a TOTL in the hands of reviewers. Well that'd be just a bonus at that point for me.

I just want to add to the pile of nice but reasonably priced gear.

Edit: Maybe it could be 1DD, 2BA and 1PCD instead in a 4-way. But I feel like that could greatly elevate the cost for not much return.

There are some IEMs out there like that, BQEYZ Summer and Dee Tee Six Max (1DD + 1BA + Piezo) and Geek Wold GK10 (2DD, 1BA, 2 Piezo). I have all three of these and they are very good, and below $150.

 

[Anycolouryoulike]

For the price the AS16 PRO is going for, they are worth every penny! I alternate them with my BA10 and Dee Tee Six M-A-X ever since I got them. They sound very good for the price even coming close to my all time favorite LZ A6 with good layering, technicality, and clarity. I bought the black AS16 PRO first, then bought the cyan one right after for backup. The price was too good to let them pass me by.

-Clear

Thanks Clear. Would love to try the MT300. Her in doors would not approve of such extravagant spending!
Probably try pick up the Dee tee max.
Secretly.
I like the look of the geekwold too. Unfortunately I can't find it on Ali.
And while I am here the prices on Ali have just shot up in the last year or so. The kz zsr I bought for 13 euro now retails for 18.
Thats some inflation.

 

[Nimweth]

Yes, the MT300 is excellent, some of us here managed to get it for around 60GBP (I was one of the lucky ones). The Dee Tee Six Max is very close in sound though and comes with the superb accessory set including a modular cable. Definitely worth going for.

 

[PhonoPhi]

There are some IEMs out there like that, BQEYZ Summer and Dee Tee Six Max (1DD + 1BA + Piezo) and Geek Wold GK10 (2DD, 1BA, 2 Piezo). I have all three of these and they are very good, and below $150.

Your favourite MT300 is likely a piezo tribrid as well (not EST claimed), and also different version of NX7 with the most prominent piezo interpretation, can be a good opportunity to revisit them

Well you probably heard this one many many times but I wonder if running a BA as a full range and then a DD to extend the low end and a piezo to extend the highs could be done... While keeping the IEM under $100, or maybe that could be stretched to $150 idk.

Forgot I had that particular idea like before I got my BL-03 even. A cheap but tuned like Moondrop Variations or something like that 1DD, 1BA and 1PCD(is that how you shorten Piezoelectric Ceramic Driver?).

If it somehow qualifies as a TOTL in the hands of reviewers. Well that'd be just a bonus at that point for me.

I just want to add to the pile of nice but reasonably priced gear.

Edit: Maybe it could be 1DD, 2BA and 1PCD instead in a 4-way. But I feel like that could greatly elevate the cost for not much return.

This type of tribrid looks most capable to me - DD for the lows, BAs for the mid and low treblr, piezo for the last 2-3 octaves.

Piezo is abbreviated differently, often as PZ. While most piezo elements are made of ceramics, there are different piezoelectric materials, e.g. some polymers.
The piezoelectrics are great in fidelity, but the displacement of piezo transducers are just few microns, so some mechanical amplification is needed for the IEM designs or limiting them only to very high frequencies.

I personally found a simple hybrid of one DD and one BA limited to fun V shapes due to the junction of the different drivers. Few BAs are very helpful to smoothen the transition, so 4-5 BAs would work the best.

 

[JEHL]

Your favourite MT300 is likely a piezo tribrid as well (not EST claimed), and also different version of NX7 with the most prominent piezo interpretation, can be a good opportunity to revisit them

This type of tribrid looks most capable to me - DD for the lows, BAs for the mid and low treblr, piezo for the last 2-3 octaves.

Piezo is abbreviated differently, often as PZ. While most piezo elements are made of ceramics, there are different piezoelectric materials, e.g. some polymers.
The piezoelectrics are great in fidelity, but the displacement of piezo transducers are just few microns, so some mechanical amplification is needed for the IEM designs or limiting them only to very high frequencies.

I personally found a simple hybrid of one DD and one BA limited to fun V shapes due to the junction of the different drivers. Few BAs are very helpful to smoothen the transition, so 4-5 BAs would work the best.

But I imagine attempting to sell a 4-way 1DD, 4BA and 1PZ at $150 would be losing money per sale...

 

[ScrofulousBinturong]

Well you probably heard this one many many times but I wonder if running a BA as a full range and then a DD to extend the low end and a piezo to extend the highs could be done... While keeping the IEM under $100, or maybe that could be stretched to $150 idk.

Forgot I had that particular idea like before I got my BL-03 even. A cheap but tuned like Moondrop Variations or something like that 1DD, 1BA and 1PCD(is that how you shorten Piezoelectric Ceramic Driver?).

If it somehow qualifies as a TOTL in the hands of reviewers. Well that'd be just a bonus at that point for me.

I just want to add to the pile of nice but reasonably priced gear.

Edit: Maybe it could be 1DD, 2BA and 1PCD instead in a 4-way. But I feel like that could greatly elevate the cost for not much return.

The BQEYZ spring 1 (and 2, but 1 is cheaper now) is pretty great. Especially detail retrieval. I sold mine and re bought it.

 

[PhonoPhi]

But I imagine attempting to sell a 4-way 1DD, 4BA and 1PZ at $150 would be losing money per sale...

NiceHCK NX7 (with its 3 incremental iterations) uses a DD, 4 BAs and a piezo (7 is due to counting a DD as "2" due to its double membrane - not a common practice), and is around $100.
The DD there is doing most of the job, snd piezo often sounds disjoint, but with some "right recordings", NX7 can have its golden moments.

Alternatively, starting with KZ ZAX, utilizing a more sub-bass focused DD and adding a piezo should be doable under $150.

Will KZ (or another ChiFi company) be willing to do it (and how) is another question.