[newworld666]

So, you found the ampersand able to really make the HEDDPHONE sing?

As a rather portable device, it's the best amp I could find till now to move the HEDDphone One, even the FIIO M17 if set in DC enhanced mode is not at the same level....
But with same DAP as sources, I still find the desktop Monolith THX887 with an iFi ipower Elite 24V is still a bit better in terms of impact in low frequencies somewhere faster (around 100 to 500hz)...
I imagine high end DAC +AMP should probably bring the HEDDphone to another SQ level, but I can't test it (I prefer to invest in portable devices for music).

 

[jjss]

The C9 is 2.5x the price unless you find a used one. It also provides a richer, more vibrant sound; but with a warmer signature as well. It is quite powerful, too along with more connectivity options. Battery power is very good on both, but the C9 allows the user to change rechargeable batteries on their own, giving longer battery use than the OEM batteries.

If I had to choose one, without $ being an objective, the C9 wins. I do love that sound. But if price comes into play, it’s the Ampersand hands down. Or, you get the Ampersand and the M8V2 and still save $500 over the C9. Then you could get a really decent DAP or mid-fi headphone/IEM like the HiFiMan Edition XS or a used ZMF or Audeze. For the same price spent, I’d go with the CEntrance products.

Cheers and I hope this helps.

I have both the Ampersand and the M8V2, and had the C9 on loan for a week to audition. For both, the setup I've used: AKSE200 / iPad+iFi iSilencer as sources, Mojo, and then Ampersand (on FIX switch thus controlling gains on Mojo, and Ampersand set at mid gain) vs C9 (using preamp in, SS mode, A-class, Lo gain). Listening was done with Austria Audio Hi-X55 and OLLO Audio S4X. My finding is that the 2 amps performance are not that diff. Both give out solid contrasting sound with density, good dynamic, tonality, texture, details and clarity, both's imaging are precise. Despite the price diff, but if one were to strip out the C9's tube section, the AB-class circuitry, I'd argue their price would then be very close!

 

[caustic386]

Has anyone had the opportunity to listen to the iFi Diablo compared to the Ampersand with or without the M8V2? Thank you.

I have - I would, and did, choose Ampersand. In spite of this specs, the Diablo can only output 1.4W at low impedance. And, strangely, it has to be on the SE connection. The balanced connection will trigger protection circuit at high output.

The Ampersand will do this, too, but around 2.2W @ 22ohm on 4.4mm or XLR IIRC. To be fair, all else being equal (i.e. using same headphones with each) this is only a difference of around 1.6dB.

I also hated having only digital in on the Diablo, but maybe that doesn't matter to others. Ampersand analog in means I can bring my own DAC - usually I just use a Qudelix or Meizu Hifi; I don't have much faith in the idea that properly built DACs sound different.

Battery life seems better in Ampersand, but that's going by memory alone. Finally, they're both guilty of having input on one side and output on the other and over time I'd expect that to cause excessive wear on the jacks *if* you carry in your pocket. The Ampersand does win out again, though, because of the mic stand mount which i used for an eye bolt and carabineer to hook to my belt loop.

And of course the Ampersand has cool dancing lights. All that said, I'm actually selling mine ($500 I guess?) because I don't need that much power. I switched to much cheaper NX7. If I were a Susvara owner, I'd probably stick with Ampersand. But Stealth doesn't need all that, even with EQ'd bass boost.

 

[jjss]

I have - I would, and did, choose Ampersand. In spite of this specs, the Diablo can only output 1.4W at low impedance. And, strangely, it has to be on the SE connection. The balanced connection will trigger protection circuit at high output.

The Ampersand will do this, too, but around 2.2W @ 22ohm on 4.4mm or XLR IIRC. To be fair, all else being equal (i.e. using same headphones with each) this is only a difference of around 1.6dB.

I also hated having only digital in on the Diablo, but maybe that doesn't matter to others. Ampersand analog in means I can bring my own DAC - usually I just use a Qudelix or Meizu Hifi; I don't have much faith in the idea that properly built DACs sound different.

Battery life seems better in Ampersand, but that's going by memory alone. Finally, they're both guilty of having input on one side and output on the other and over time I'd expect that to cause excessive wear on the jacks *if* you carry in your pocket. The Ampersand does win out again, though, because of the mic stand mount which i used for an eye bolt and carabineer to hook to my belt loop.

And of course the Ampersand has cool dancing lights. All that said, I'm actually selling mine ($500 I guess?) because I don't need that much power. I switched to much cheaper NX7. If I were a Susvara owner, I'd probably stick with Ampersand. But Stealth doesn't need all that, even with EQ'd bass boost.

Currently I happen to own Ampersand, Diablo and NX7. If I were to keep one it would be the Ampersand. Next to it would be Diablo. Although I don’t have extra power hungry headphones but when the Ampersand (in its FIX switch mode) is paired with Mojo the combo is a gem! Listening to this combo with high sensitivity headphones reproduce sound that comes close to what the Song signature series produces. I can’t speak for others but to me my ranking would be Sony signature series, Ampersand, then A&KSE200, out of my current portable collection.

 

[ops V]

Hello all, thank you SDBiotek for making this thread!

Some power specs for your perusal:

13Ω: 2.3W
16Ω: 3W
22Ω: 4.4W
48Ω: 6W

Please specify the power for each output.

 

[Feischmaker]

Is the Ampersand works well with IEM (silent no hiss?)
I plan to pair it with the IEM (on my signature) and sometimes the headphone as well

 

[newworld666]

Is the Ampersand works well with IEM (silent no hiss?)
I plan to pair it with the IEM (on my signature) and sometimes the headphone as well

I use the Ampersand with HEDDphone One and DCA Stealth in high gain mode and 75% of volume with a realistic sound pressure (not really good for the ears) ...
I just plugged the Beyerdynamic Xelento at this impressive volume level => no Hiss at all (it's impossible to use the Xelento at such level). When I plug the Xelento to my little BT receiver iFi Go Blu, I have a permanent amp background hiss, even at a low volume level, this mean those are rather sensitive IEM.
So, as I doubt any IEM on the market would need to set the Ampersand to the high gain mode... I think we can consider the Ampersand is hiss free for almost all IEM on the market...

 

[Feischmaker]

I use the Ampersand with HEDDphone One and DCA Stealth in high gain mode and 75% of volume with a realistic sound pressure (not really good for the ears) ...
I just plugged the Beyerdynamic Xelento at this impressive volume level => no Hiss at all (it's impossible to use the Xelento at such level). When I plug the Xelento with the iFi Go Blu, I have a permanent amp hiss even at a low volume level.
So, as I doubt any IEM would need to set Ampersand at high gain mode... I think we can consider the Ampersand is hiss free for almost all IEM on the market...

Sounds amazing, seems to be a good product to upgrade from my current portable amp (Vorz Pure II). I need that 4.4. output

The price is also relatively affordable too

 

[SDBiotek]

Is the Ampersand works well with IEM (silent no hiss?)
I plan to pair it with the IEM (on my signature) and sometimes the headphone as well

I have also used a few different iems with my Ampersand without any hiss/background noise issues, through both single-ended and 4.4mm balanced outputs. Just keep in mind that depending on your source, you will probably want to start with low gain on the Ampersand. It will provide more than enough power for an iem, give you the benefit of the lowest noise floor, and most usable range on the volume knob.

 

[syazwaned]

Has anyone got the chance to try dacmini?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Is the Ampersand works well with IEM (silent no hiss?)
I plan to pair it with the IEM (on my signature) and sometimes the headphone as well

Mine is pretty silent with my very sensitive custom IEM and Westone universal IEM, and my NXears as well. It pairs well with just about every headphone and IEM I have tried with it as well.

 

[rsbrsvp]

How much does the Ampersand change the DAP's voicing and impart it's own? My preference is for the amplification to amplify without adding or taking anything as I like the sound of my DAP. I just need more juice....

Also- is the M8 dac going to be better than any dap- as a dac or not necessarily. I love my Sony wmz1 m2 sound and would love to keep it is is- just with more gain.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

How much does the Ampersand change the DAP's voicing and impart it's own? My preference is for the amplification to amplify without adding or taking anything as I like the sound of my DAP. I just need more juice....

Also- is the M8 dac going to be better than any dap- as a dac or not necessarily. I love my Sony wmz1 m2 sound and would love to keep it is is- just with more gain.

It’s pretty much wire with gain. But an impedance mismatch with a headphone might color the sound. So far that doesn’t seem to be the case with me.

But, vs something like the Palab M1 mini with using balanced HD600 and HD650, the Ampersand is my favorite with HD600, and the Palab is my favorite with HD650. Both headphones are good with either amp, but one headphone can still sound better on a particular amp than on another.

The Sony DAC is excellent, so in your case you could just get the amp.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

So, it seems that I don't have any headphones that this Ampersand cannot drive well, with more than enough power for even the Original HiFiMan HE-6. However, as a "wire with gain" it sounds just like whatever source I use. So, if you pick the wrong source then the ampersand can sound as bright or as dark as the source. I find it to be utterly transparent, and a viable replacement for most desktop headphone amps as well.

My PALAB M1 Mini is not a good choice as the source when listening to HD-800/800s, as it is a little too bright for those; but wow does the M1 Mini + Ampersand sound good with my darker sounding HD-600 and HD-6XX!! Even the slightly brighter Grado HF-2 LE sound good with the M1 Mini alone or via Ampersand. But not so with the brighter HD-800/800s.

I've reported in the past that the Palab M1 Mini can drive the HD-6XX with authority by itself with the balanced output, while in that review I had found that the HD-600 sounded better with the HiFiM8 V2. But, now I found the HD600 were also very good with the M1 mini if I feed the M1 Mini into the Ampersand first and then plug the HD-600 into that.

My BlueDAC is a warmer sounding amp with slightly more bass, but it's great as the source/DAC for feeding the Ampersand with just about any headphone. I prefer this BlueDAC and my HiFiM8 V2 as the source, because the combo is more versatile and I can listen with anything via the Ampersand. I think the Ampersand is a bit much power for the HE-1000se and Edition-X V2, and I turn the gain down to medium for the 1000se and low for the Edition-X.

The BlueDAC can drive the above on its own without the Ampersand, but when it comes to HD-800/800s or HE-6 then YOU REALLY NEED the AMPERSAND. The HD-600/6XX sound good via blueDAC balanced 2.5mm output, but even better and more punchy when feeding the BlueDAC into the Ampersand first.

The HiFiMan R2R2000 is also a good source with the HD-800/800s and is necessary to properly drive the HD800/800s when you have the R2R2000. But as I said, the HE-1000se do not need a stronger amp than the R2R2000, HiFiM8 V2, or BlueDAC. Still, the HD-800/800s sound much better from the Ampersand than directly from the R2R2000 built-in amp (which is fantastic without an external amp for my easier to drive headphones like HE-1000se, Edition-X V2, or IEM like Westone W80 and Westone ES60, etc).

The HiFiM8 V2 can easily drive the HE-560 V1 balanced, but the Ampersand gives them more punch and authority as well, like with the HE-6 V1. Again, the Palab M1 Mini is not a good source/DAC for the HE-560 V1 as it makes them a little bright, while the BlueDAC or HiFiM8 V2 + ampersand pair with them much better.

I have not tried easy to drive full size headphones like CEntrance Cerene dB or V-MODA M-100, as it would be pointless based on my experience with the Edition-X V2 which are easily overpowered by the Ampersand.

I am amazed.

In regards to my most recent post, here is a link to my older post, talking about synergy/and or coloration/wire with gain.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cen...able-headphone-amplifier.961161/post-16800379

 

[rsbrsvp]

Wow. Very very helpful info. Thanks. I plan to drive only high sensitivity earphones like LCD-4Z and Cladera, and perhaps Meze Elite; but the Sony and even other more powerful daps just don't have the juice to really make even high sensitivity headphones sing. I would not put a phi TC or Susvara, or Stealth on the Ampersand because I am a power freak and I know that even though this little amp. will do a good job on them, it wont be a great job- and I'll be disappointed. This is not issue to me anyway because I prefer the sonic signature of the high sensitivity phones anyway.