[nspindel]

You're talking about offsets here - the fact that different cd rom drives have different offsets. This is exactly why EAC includes configurations so that these read offsets can be specified, so that EAC knows how to calibrate itself to your specific cd rom drive, so that these errors do not occur.

The article you've posted states that the offset errors that are often not able to be corrected are when you are burning, not when you are ripping. Your article shows that with proper calibration, EAC is capable of making an exact copy.

Read the article....

 

[nspindel]

But Stevesurf, thank you, because you've reminded me why my experiment of ripping/burning/ripping and comparing won't work, the files will definitely be different. I don't have the capability software-wise to adjust a write offset on the burn...

 

[binkgle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspindel But Stevesurf, thank you, because you've reminded me why my experiment of ripping/burning/ripping and comparing won't work, the files will definitely be different. I don't have the capability software-wise to adjust a write offset on the burn...

yes, you do. using accurate rip, you know your read offset. there is a relationship between read offset, write offset, and the combined read/write offset (i can't remember what it is, look around on the accuraterip forum) which will allow you to determine your drive's correct wrte offset. this can be enterd into eac under drive option -> writer. then, whenever you burn with eac, you can make a truly exact copy of the original file(s)

 

[nspindel]

Burn with EAC? Never did that. I've only used it to rip. Hmmmmmmm, gotta try that.....

 

[Nomad]

All those jitter issues can be avoided by using devices like the Apogee Big Ben. I'd rather prefer to feed a High-End DAC with the cheapest transport on Earth through the Big Ben than most CDP transports.

 

[AintLDS]

This is a very interesting thread.

One of the attractions of PC audio is that, for the most part, it's economical to try since most people just getting into audiophile techniques have a decent computer setup already (let's face it, it's just another way to geek out!).

For me it was easy. I already had a Powerbook & Airport Express. Instead of blowing my money on an absurdly expensive CDP, I could put the money into a pair of cans and an amp/dac combo. For about $1k, I'm getting insane audio quality.

But, still the unbeliever that I am, I am still researching PC audio and trying to find its flaws. And yes, there is very little information out there as far as testing goes. But from what I know about filesystems and such, I'm confident that the copying/encoding to lossless thing is paying off in spades as opposed to putting the money into a CDP. I'm more worried about providing my amp/dac with clean power than I am worried that my source is an issue.

I do wish the Mac platform had an EAC-type program. It would be nice if someone looked at the iTunes ripping process and analyzed it's error correction abilities. So far, though, this is the best setup I've tried and it's been an economical ride.

 

[cotdt]

both hard drives and cd players make noisy, so none of them great.

 

[raylpc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt both hard drives and cd players make noisy, so none of them great.

Ever heard of "the lesser of two evils"? Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Mr.PD]

There are some very convincing arguments here for using a HDD based audio system. You all have caught my interest.
One question.
What about HDCD? I love my HDCD encoded discs playing on my HDCD capable player. Can HDCD be decoded in a HDD set up?

 

[raylpc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.PD There are some very convincing arguments here for using a HDD based audio system. You all have caught my interest. One question. What about HDCD? I love my HDCD encoded discs playing on my HDCD capable player. Can HDCD be decoded in a HDD set up?

HDCDs are just regular CDs that with the hidden HD bits mostly in the least significant bits. When you rip the CDs, those HD bits are copied as well. Then you can just stream the bits from your computer to your HD capable DAC and get the HDCD quality.

Essentially, you're just using the computer as a transport. And I strongly recommend you look into those nice squeezeboxes as a very high quality transport.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nspindel All it takes is a pc with a digital output to achieve the SAME results as the best cd players out there, if you use a high quality outboard DAC. IMHO, anyone who tells you that a PC can't give you the same quality as a high-end cd player probably has spent thousands of dollars on a cd player and is trying to rationalize that expense to themself.

Ummm, no.

If you use coaxial digital out you can still pick up-significant noise from your computer... if you use optical digital out you are using optical digital out.

The squeezebox type solutions interest me though, but you are still forced to use a DAC which introduces the necissary evil of SPDIF in most cases.

 

[eboomer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox if you use optical digital out you are using optical digital out. The squeezebox type solutions interest me though, but you are still forced to use a DAC which introduces the necissary evil of SPDIF in most cases.

Zuh? What's adherantly bad about SPDIF?

(Pardon my ignorance, I'm a bit of a noob)

At any rate, my understanding of the computer vs. CD player issue is that while the hard drive is theoretically a better medium than an optical disk, the digital stream still gets a fair ammount of jitter; this jitter can then be substantially attenuated by an asynchronously upsampling DAC to such an extent that some claim the jitter is eliminated (though such a thing is impossible to literally do). One undeniable advantage of pc based audio is that, if you already have a computer, you don't need to pay for a transport and can take the money that you would have spent on a transport and buy a better DAC instead. I suspect that computers as source components is the wave of the future for us (and the masses, ala iTunes). As more and more paranoid-about-audio fidelity audiophiles work more and more on the complications of pc based audio, such sonic shortcomings will be overcome.

We could continue debating forever as to which way would produce the best sound quality without ever reaching anything resembling a definative conclusion, but why don't we test this out? In head-fi meets we should A/B the best CDP based systems with the best PC based systems at comparable prices and discuss, on this forum, our opinions on the differences. It seems like people pretty much pick their camp and stay in it, but we should get together these rigs and make a point of testing which way is generally better.

What I think we may well find is that which one is better depends on the price regime considered.

P.S. We should have a thread like this as a sticky; it is vital and general hi-fi information.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Ummm, no. The squeezebox type solutions interest me though, but you are still forced to use a DAC which introduces the necissary evil of SPDIF in most cases.

Looks like Empirical Audio has finally launched it's "offramp I2S" USB converter which will bypass spdif by taking i2S signal straight to the DAC. Should be the way to go if someone wants to do PC audio right.

Unfortunately, you're limited to a couple of DAC's with I2S input, and even then they recommend getting those DAC's modded for best outcome...

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eboomer Zuh? What's adherantly bad about SPDIF? (Pardon my ignorance, I'm a bit of a noob)

I don't know too much about the technical explination, but I am sure someone on here can jump in and explain. Basically, the fact that the signal is converted from I2S [or whatever] to SPDIF and then back again introduces jitter and other issues. Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L Looks like Empirical Audio has finally launched it's "offramp I2S" USB converter which will bypass spdif by taking i2S signal straight to the DAC. Should be the way to go if someone wants to do PC audio right.

That is very cool! I wonder how difficult a circuit like that would be to design DIY...

 

[keiron99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox If you use coaxial digital out you can still pick up-significant noise from your computer...

I often read about "noise" used in this context. It seems to be taken as a given but I have never seen it tested, quantified or a rational technical explanation given. Would you care to explain what you mean? I can just about imagine how "noise" could impact on an analogue output from a soundcard within a PC, but as far as "noise" impacting on a digital output (coaxial or optical), well, I struggle to accept that given my limited knowledge.