There are many good E80CC tubes. These particular ones are Mullards. The discussions are more about the differences between E80CC and 12AU7 tubes in general, not necessarily specific types.What are these E80CC tubes? I have the Cayin HA-3A incoming and I see that everybody upgrades to these.
Thank you in advance
Cayin HA-3A, a Compact 6V6s Transformer-coupled Tube Amplifier
- Thread starter Andykong
- Start date
Yeah I like such discussions , so you highly recommend the Mullards. May I know if someone happens to know any European websites to buy from ?
Thanks , I just wanted to know any trusted websites
Well, the Mullards are the first E80CCs I have ever tried, so I am pretty much as new to E80CC tubes as you are. Just read a lot about them.
fidgeraldo
Headphoneus Supremus
I ordered from these two weeks ago...smooth as butter!Thanks , I just wanted to know any trusted websites
Cheers!
actually, as I have to wait till the end of May, I started thinking if the Spring 3 would be a better choice... but the price is 2X higher! So...decided to work out my patience... and meanwhile just bought some Mazda's 6V6G + Philips' E80CC, this should make my waiting for the cyan2 much more bearable
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Is E80CC compatible with ECC82?
Yes, a few head-fiers are using it with great results and I believe that Cayin also confirmed the possibility of using in the HA-3A.
NJoyzAudio
100+ Head-Fier
For those thinking about jumping into the E80cc tubes.
Been reading and on this forum for some time now, and many here helped me on my journey so want to give back to those just joining now and starting.
So...here goes what I've found and what moved me to not only buy the HA-3A but eventually move to the E80cc tubes.
Also all below is IMO and definitely YMMV
The early posts by Andy and others from Cayin themselves confirmed the HA-3A/6A can use the E80cc despite the higher power draw.
Andy himself did confirm that it is within spec for the HA-3A, but he also warned you are at the higher/highest end of that spec.
I guess I can us a a car analogy here for a sports car. While a sports car has the HP and made to run at full throttle for extended time as you are within the spec of this car, doing this always might (and emphasize MIGHT) reduce some life. But probably not before you move on OR stop driving.
But to have Cayin confirm it is within spec, I took the dive and have not looked back.
I've got a lot of nice 12AU7/7316/4034 spec 12AU7 tubes.
I keep rolling the E80cc/6085's back in as the sound is IMO so much better
If your thinking of doing this, be prepared for a lot of time spent looking for the tubes.
Either people want a ridiculous amount, or they are hard to find true NOS, or the shipping from foreign places costs as much as the tubes after insurance and customs charges.
Note there are several on the HA-3A forum who moved on to the HA-6A and have stated there E80cc made less difference on the HA-6A, and changing from EL84 to KT88 tubes using the 12AU7's was a bigger change on the HA-6A then moving the 12AU7's to the E80cc's. In one case tried to buy a user who moved to the HA-6A, who was selling his entire E80cc tube collection on Head-Fi's classifieds, but he already sold them, and he is one of those who posted they did NOT make as much of a difference on the HA-6A, and told me as such when I reached out to him in a PM.
Most of the E80cc/6085 tube type is made from either Philips/Amperex (especially those marked as PQ or SQ, the gold pins and square holes on the side of the box plates are the main clue) or Tungsram (Palladium Plated Pins, with same square holes on the ends of the box plates, but there are circular holes in between the square holes, middle of the plate sides) are the dead give away these are made by one of the two
I've come across a few that are NOT made by either and don't have the dead give away items from either Philips/Amperex or Tungsram, and they sound similar to the Philips and Tungsram. Can't get anyone to answer are the Mullards I've purchased Philips made rebrands or contract made to Mullard spec by one of the 2 main makers.
There is also supposed to be Amperex made in Hicksville NY 6085 tubes with gold pins that are marked made in the USA that are supposed to have a slightly different sound than the Holland made ones, but I've yet to come across anyone that has these true made in the USA tubes. The 6085's I've found to date ALL have made in Holland on them, or the Holland manufacturing marks on the glass or bottom. Still searching.
You will also see "pinched waist" E80cc's which some call the Holy Grail of the E80cc tube, with some stating there have less microphonics. But one of the hall marks of the E80cc std tubes is how quiet they are/lack of microphonics without the pinched waist. The people selling the pinched waist E80cc's want 5x to 10x the cost of the non pinched waist tubes. ($500 to $1K per tube, the non-pinced waist right now are $100-$150 per tube true NOS)
I've listened to the pinched waist tubes (unfortunately not on my amp, the owner of these tubes would not let me borrow them to do a head to head comparison on my HA-3A) and the owner did NOT have the non-pinched waist tubes so it was going by memory (which isn't always accurate) but what I heard from the pinched waist was NO different than the non-pinched waist IMO. (which on some days my opinion and $1 together might get you a cup of coffee, so what its worth)
IF you can afford the "pinched waist" E80cc's, would love to hear someone compare and contrast against the non-pinched waist back to back.
I've got the following E80cc tubes. Philips SQ, Amperex PQ (probably made in the same factory) gold pins, Tungsram Red Lettering made in Hungary industrial with Palladium platted pins, and one of each Mullard branded made in Holland and GB.
They are all close, and maybe its just my ears but IMO they do sound a little different from each other. The Mullard made in Holland not gold pin E80cc is my favorite for now, but you cannot go wrong with any.
I've also listened to a Tungsram "nickle plate" silver plate E80cc that was considerable different in sound, but these do NOT exist in the market anymore, and those who have them won't give them up at any price.
I also see tubes from Valvo, Siemens and have even seen a pair with GE markings, but these all look to be either Philips or Tungsram made.
I spend a lot of time looking for and trying to buy E80cc's that are different than what I already have. Not an easy task.
I've also seen others post on other forums, they purchased "used" or near NOS tubes and the tubes crapped out quickly, the E80cc is supposed to be a 10K+ hour tube so there is "junk" out there. Buyer beware.
For me I still look at and consider buying other 12Au7's but until you get up in the unobtainium level like G73r or Mazda Long Silver Plate, these types being REALLY expensive $$$$ ($700 to $900 a pair). I find myself asking wouldn't I just be better getting better 6V6 tubes and more E80cc's? Will these new to me 12AU7's sound as good or better than the E80cc I own now?
So far when I can borrow what people call benchmark 12Au7, and I own a few, to me the E80cc's sound better
For now I think I have enough tubes to just sit, listen and enjoy, but I do still look. (and still hear that voice in the back of my head, wouldn't you prefer upgrading to a 6SN7/300B Amp? (- talk about cubic $'s there for good tubes....) which then makes me stop and just sit and listen and enjoy again.
Upgraditis is a real thing.
Gotta love this hobby
IF your willing to stress you amp and run it at the high end of the tolerance/spec, I think you will be rewarded, but granted not everyone will want to do this, so its your choice and what you feel comfortable with especially when there are still a LOT of good 12AU7 tubes out there.
Hope this info helps someone who's on the fence
And of course all the above is IMO and YMMV.
Been reading and on this forum for some time now, and many here helped me on my journey so want to give back to those just joining now and starting.
So...here goes what I've found and what moved me to not only buy the HA-3A but eventually move to the E80cc tubes.
Also all below is IMO and definitely YMMV
The early posts by Andy and others from Cayin themselves confirmed the HA-3A/6A can use the E80cc despite the higher power draw.
Andy himself did confirm that it is within spec for the HA-3A, but he also warned you are at the higher/highest end of that spec.
I guess I can us a a car analogy here for a sports car. While a sports car has the HP and made to run at full throttle for extended time as you are within the spec of this car, doing this always might (and emphasize MIGHT) reduce some life. But probably not before you move on OR stop driving.
But to have Cayin confirm it is within spec, I took the dive and have not looked back.
I've got a lot of nice 12AU7/7316/4034 spec 12AU7 tubes.
I keep rolling the E80cc/6085's back in as the sound is IMO so much better
If your thinking of doing this, be prepared for a lot of time spent looking for the tubes.
Either people want a ridiculous amount, or they are hard to find true NOS, or the shipping from foreign places costs as much as the tubes after insurance and customs charges.
Note there are several on the HA-3A forum who moved on to the HA-6A and have stated there E80cc made less difference on the HA-6A, and changing from EL84 to KT88 tubes using the 12AU7's was a bigger change on the HA-6A then moving the 12AU7's to the E80cc's. In one case tried to buy a user who moved to the HA-6A, who was selling his entire E80cc tube collection on Head-Fi's classifieds, but he already sold them, and he is one of those who posted they did NOT make as much of a difference on the HA-6A, and told me as such when I reached out to him in a PM.
Most of the E80cc/6085 tube type is made from either Philips/Amperex (especially those marked as PQ or SQ, the gold pins and square holes on the side of the box plates are the main clue) or Tungsram (Palladium Plated Pins, with same square holes on the ends of the box plates, but there are circular holes in between the square holes, middle of the plate sides) are the dead give away these are made by one of the two
I've come across a few that are NOT made by either and don't have the dead give away items from either Philips/Amperex or Tungsram, and they sound similar to the Philips and Tungsram. Can't get anyone to answer are the Mullards I've purchased Philips made rebrands or contract made to Mullard spec by one of the 2 main makers.
There is also supposed to be Amperex made in Hicksville NY 6085 tubes with gold pins that are marked made in the USA that are supposed to have a slightly different sound than the Holland made ones, but I've yet to come across anyone that has these true made in the USA tubes. The 6085's I've found to date ALL have made in Holland on them, or the Holland manufacturing marks on the glass or bottom. Still searching.
You will also see "pinched waist" E80cc's which some call the Holy Grail of the E80cc tube, with some stating there have less microphonics. But one of the hall marks of the E80cc std tubes is how quiet they are/lack of microphonics without the pinched waist. The people selling the pinched waist E80cc's want 5x to 10x the cost of the non pinched waist tubes. ($500 to $1K per tube, the non-pinced waist right now are $100-$150 per tube true NOS)
I've listened to the pinched waist tubes (unfortunately not on my amp, the owner of these tubes would not let me borrow them to do a head to head comparison on my HA-3A) and the owner did NOT have the non-pinched waist tubes so it was going by memory (which isn't always accurate) but what I heard from the pinched waist was NO different than the non-pinched waist IMO. (which on some days my opinion and $1 together might get you a cup of coffee, so what its worth)
IF you can afford the "pinched waist" E80cc's, would love to hear someone compare and contrast against the non-pinched waist back to back.
I've got the following E80cc tubes. Philips SQ, Amperex PQ (probably made in the same factory) gold pins, Tungsram Red Lettering made in Hungary industrial with Palladium platted pins, and one of each Mullard branded made in Holland and GB.
They are all close, and maybe its just my ears but IMO they do sound a little different from each other. The Mullard made in Holland not gold pin E80cc is my favorite for now, but you cannot go wrong with any.
I've also listened to a Tungsram "nickle plate" silver plate E80cc that was considerable different in sound, but these do NOT exist in the market anymore, and those who have them won't give them up at any price.
I also see tubes from Valvo, Siemens and have even seen a pair with GE markings, but these all look to be either Philips or Tungsram made.
I spend a lot of time looking for and trying to buy E80cc's that are different than what I already have. Not an easy task.
I've also seen others post on other forums, they purchased "used" or near NOS tubes and the tubes crapped out quickly, the E80cc is supposed to be a 10K+ hour tube so there is "junk" out there. Buyer beware.
For me I still look at and consider buying other 12Au7's but until you get up in the unobtainium level like G73r or Mazda Long Silver Plate, these types being REALLY expensive $$$$ ($700 to $900 a pair). I find myself asking wouldn't I just be better getting better 6V6 tubes and more E80cc's? Will these new to me 12AU7's sound as good or better than the E80cc I own now?
So far when I can borrow what people call benchmark 12Au7, and I own a few, to me the E80cc's sound better
For now I think I have enough tubes to just sit, listen and enjoy, but I do still look. (and still hear that voice in the back of my head, wouldn't you prefer upgrading to a 6SN7/300B Amp? (- talk about cubic $'s there for good tubes....) which then makes me stop and just sit and listen and enjoy again.
Upgraditis is a real thing.
Gotta love this hobby
IF your willing to stress you amp and run it at the high end of the tolerance/spec, I think you will be rewarded, but granted not everyone will want to do this, so its your choice and what you feel comfortable with especially when there are still a LOT of good 12AU7 tubes out there.
Hope this info helps someone who's on the fence
And of course all the above is IMO and YMMV.
What's everyone's opinion of tube rolling the 6v6s? I have heard itr doesnt make as big of a difference as the preamps tubes. Just wondering if its worth my while. Currently have fivres in.
NJoyzAudio
100+ Head-Fier
Djentbat
Yes you will get the most change by rolling the preamp tubes (12AU7 or E80cc)
But changing out the power tubes will tune/fine tune the sound and will affect the changes to the Preamp tubes.
From the stock tubes, any good NOS tube you will hear a change pretty instantly
Some 6V6 will make the sound warm, others will skew it away from warmth and pull the mids a little forward, which in turn may change how the highs sound to you
Many here have posted what their impressions were with tubes from the various manufacturers.
Many of us have our favorite go to tubes, others have posted their impressions that they didn't hear much change, but the consensus seems to be there is a change.
If you do get a chance to reference what others have said in this forum it can be a guidepost for you, but at the end of the day it's how you perceive it through the headphones you are using, but in general, YES changing out the power tubes will change the sound.
You did not mention what the sound signature you likr/searching for.
I own the Fivres also, but it is not one of my go to tubes. I tend to lean towards the Mazda's which many here perceive as "neutral" but for me, with the right preamp tubes, it gives a nice small lift to the bass, keeps the mids tight, and doesn't take away from the highs, for the preamp tubes I tend use. To me it adds a little clarity overall.
When I look for a litte more pace and omph, change to the Bendix 5992's
I think for very old vintage Jazz, I've put the Fivre's in.
But that is IMO. YMMV
FYI: The least amount of change comes from the rectifier tube, but even changing that out will have a small change to the overall sound.
Hope this helps
This post has literally been linked in like 3-4 times on the past few pages. I really wonder sometimes, what some people think jumping between threads and asking for the latest and greatest information without doing zero legwork: even reading the last 5 pages.
Well written and much needed post. I still can't believe how Head-Fi works sometimes: a few posts about a certain product (E80CC in this case) and you can already hear a hype train whistling in the distance. Zero research, just jumping after products based on reading a handful of posts.
Rant over.
Thanks for the great write up, nowadays I prefer great imaging with a bit of a neutral focus. But I also like to switch it up and have some more warm and brassy tubes depending on the headphone.
Open to suggestions but I can’t deny that the blue tube color isn’t incredible lol
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