Can you explain the process of music reproducing between Aptx headphones and Bluetooth transmitter
Dec 2, 2020 at 3:21 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 10

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Dear all,

I still confuse about the music reproduction process among devices, in my case:
- I have high-quality music, for example, DTS, Flac 3261 kbps 96000 Hz, PCM 1411 kbps, and I open them using Foobar2000.
- I have a Bluetooth transmitter, Creative Bluetooth W2 with Aptx
- I have a Sennheiser headphone with Aptx also.
I still have a feeling the music, when I hear it via my headphone, is not very good when comparing them when I listen on my speaker system.
Is that I am getting an issue of degradation of music quality: from high quality, the music is reduced its quality to fit with Aptx, then it is transmitted to my phone?
Do I really need such high quality music for my current devices?

I hope someone could help me to explain what is the process behind my current devices?
Many thanks!
 
Dec 2, 2020 at 5:24 AM Post #2 of 10
so when you are sending with bluetooth, it's basically be sent as Digital. But then your Headphone runs on analog. So, basically, if you sent it with bluetooth the headphone need to decode it first to analog. The aptx is basically codex for digital bluetooth transmitter, it sent signal as digital in form of Bluetooth wave, Aptx hd can sent up to 576 kbit/s as of your flac it was 3261 kbps, so as Bluetooth it need to be compressed first. And then it come the DAC, as i told the signal from Bluetooth are in digital form, it need to be converted to analog. Bluetooth headphones come with build in DAC and Amp, but the quality is different from each other. There are much type of cable dac and amp out there. from 50$ to more than 1000$. and for the one in bluetooth headphones is only, so so. i hope it help you clear your concerns.
 
Dec 2, 2020 at 9:20 AM Post #3 of 10
Thank you so much, Basmitokay.
If Aptx is just a codox for digital Bluetooth transmission, it means that the rate, e.g. my music at 3261 kbps, is different with what from Aptx codex, e.g. 576 kbit/s.
Do I understand correctly that Aptx on Creative Bluetooth device will compress the data of my music, no matter what bitrate to transfer to my headphone. When the headphone receives the signal, it will decode and restore to the very high-quality music again and it depends on the DAC on the headphone?

so when you are sending with bluetooth, it's basically be sent as Digital. But then your Headphone runs on analog. So, basically, if you sent it with bluetooth the headphone need to decode it first to analog. The aptx is basically codex for digital bluetooth transmitter, it sent signal as digital in form of Bluetooth wave, Aptx hd can sent up to 576 kbit/s as of your flac it was 3261 kbps, so as Bluetooth it need to be compressed first. And then it come the DAC, as i told the signal from Bluetooth are in digital form, it need to be converted to analog. Bluetooth headphones come with build in DAC and Amp, but the quality is different from each other. There are much type of cable dac and amp out there. from 50$ to more than 1000$. and for the one in bluetooth headphones is only, so so. i hope it help you clear your concerns.
 
Dec 2, 2020 at 8:58 PM Post #7 of 10
Dear all,

I still confuse about the music reproduction process among devices, in my case:
- I have high-quality music, for example, DTS, Flac 3261 kbps 96000 Hz, PCM 1411 kbps, and I open them using Foobar2000.
- I have a Bluetooth transmitter, Creative Bluetooth W2 with Aptx
- I have a Sennheiser headphone with Aptx also.
I still have a feeling the music, when I hear it via my headphone, is not very good when comparing them when I listen on my speaker system.

Regardless of your music encoding quality (resolution, sample rate, etc) BT Apt-X can not transmit beyond 16/48kbps and around 500kbps. Your source computer is basically converting to slightly higher than 320kbps on the fly so it can go through BT.

Despite that though: what exactly are your speakers? Because you can test how much degradation really matters by converting some of your music to 320kbps VBR then play it through both. How bad is the degradation when the source files are not being downsampled? If the degradation is not too bad when you control file format as a variable vs when you're not using essentially the same source file anymore (due to down conversion for BT), then, yeah, you're getting degradation, and you need to switch out the hardware. If the difference is really bad, then it's not just BT downsampling but everything after it (ie the BT headphones). Either you really need to replace your headphone hardware because they're nowhere near as good as your speakers (even when accounting for inherent disadvantages of using headphones) or just have a drastically different sound signature.

It's not all just about using a DAC and headphone amp to drive the same BT headphones though in case it can work with a headphone cable and bypass the internal amplifier. BT headphones are designed to be very efficient so a tiny headphone amp running off a tiny battery can last several hours driving them instead of using an enormous amp huge caps around the transformer. Getting high efficiency drivers is not hard; what is hard is making drivers with very high sensitivitywhile keeping the response flatter. More likely your headphone drivers just have a lot of peaks and dips in the response, and in other casesBT headphones either have strong bass or the amp circuit applies an EQ effect, because the target market aren't exactly looking for measurements to compare these BT headphones to something like a Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage.


Is that I am getting an issue of degradation of music quality: from high quality, the music is reduced its quality to fit with Aptx, then it is transmitted to my phone?

Degradation is there but I'd worry more about the hardware, and then worry about the source files (or in this case avoiding compression) only after you have better audio hardware.

In other words get a better DAC-HPamp and headphones. Note though that there will always be compromises with headphones in general vs speakers in much the same way that the price for an optimally performing speaker system is higher (ie a dampened room; instead of just low noise floor, you need to worry about reflections). So for one even if a certain headphone measures with good bass response some people find the bass weak for at least two reasons: they don't realize they have a high enough noise floor (I mean just because you don't worry about reflections doesn't mean the noise floor isn't a problem) and they're comparing these to speakers where the bass emanates through a room and hits the listener's whole body. Getting that kick in the chest from a good speaker system heightens the perception of the bass response vs just plain hearing the bass.


Do I really need such high quality music for my current devices?

No. But unless you're using a battery powered device that can have the downconversion process make the CPU drink up the charge, you want to free up cores and RAM on a desktop computer that is running the downconversion, just keep those files as they are that way when you upgrade your headphone system they're already there.
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 2:51 AM Post #8 of 10
@ProtegeManiac
An amazing post, I am very much appreciative of your reply, which made so clear on what I confused.

Because you can test how much degradation really matters by converting some of your music to 320kbps VBR then play it through both. How bad is the degradation when the source files are not being downsampled?

A good method to test. I have never thought about this.

Degradation is there but I'd worry more about the hardware, and then worry about the source files (or in this case avoiding compression) only after you have better audio hardware.

I first bought Bowers & Wilkins PX7 as it supports Aptx HD. My PC at that moment did not have any Bluetooth Transmitter with Aptx HD. So, I bought one Bluetooth transmitter, a Mpow V5.0 CSR device and connected it to my PC. I enjoyed some beautiful music at that time. However, in some songs, the female voice turned to very "sour" and "harsh". When I open some music videos, it got delay in sound and image. I returned both. Later, I found out (by research on the internet) that the headphone does not support Aptx LL.

Now, I am having Sennheiser Momentum 3 wireless and Creative Bluetooth W2. Both came with Aptx and Aptx LL, for which there is no issue with the delay. The songs which I tested with another pair was smoother and better. However, these made me confused. As I thought, Aptx HD must be much better than Aptx. Thanks to you, I got it now. That is from the hardware itself. I really cannot just realize on just music source and Bluetooth codex.

The issues I got now with the new pair was that even with very high music quality source, there are some "glitches" while listening. It had some weird "noises", like something was cut or flattened, and it turned to some "error" sound. I still wonder, it is from the issues of converting and degradation.


But unless you're using a battery powered device that can have the downconversion process make the CPU drink up the charge, you want to free up cores and RAM on a desktop computer that is running the downconversion, just keep those files as they are that way when you upgrade your headphone system they're already there.

Thanks a lot for this. It made me relieved. Yes, you are absolutely right, when the time comes, I will be possible to invest for better hardware.
 
Dec 4, 2020 at 7:49 AM Post #9 of 10
I first bought Bowers & Wilkins PX7 as it supports Aptx HD. My PC at that moment did not have any Bluetooth Transmitter with Aptx HD. So, I bought one Bluetooth transmitter, a Mpow V5.0 CSR device and connected it to my PC. I enjoyed some beautiful music at that time. However, in some songs, the female voice turned to very "sour" and "harsh". When I open some music videos, it got delay in sound and image. I returned both. Later, I found out (by research on the internet) that the headphone does not support Aptx LL.

Now, I am having Sennheiser Momentum 3 wireless and Creative Bluetooth W2. Both came with Aptx and Aptx LL, for which there is no issue with the delay. The songs which I tested with another pair was smoother and better. However, these made me confused. As I thought, Aptx HD must be much better than Aptx. Thanks to you, I got it now. That is from the hardware itself. I really cannot just realize on just music source and Bluetooth codex.

That could be any number of things.

It could be the downconversion on the fly having errors, since it's being done on the fly with many other applications running. I mean unless you're using a Xeon with huge cache and ECC memory there's always the likelihood of errors. When I rip CDs the only app running is the ripper with Bitdefender and Steam in the background, although I don't bother disconnecting from the net.

At the same time that could also just be the sound of the wireless headphone system, whether its DAC or HPamp or the drivers just having that kind of response. And based on these I suspect the drivers...
1607085912469.png


...however while that suggests changing your headphones and getting the requisite upstream components to go with it, you have to mind exactly which headphones you'll get because even better drivers can have a similar response, just less severe peaks and dips than that.


The issues I got now with the new pair was that even with very high music quality source, there are some "glitches" while listening. It had some weird "noises", like something was cut or flattened, and it turned to some "error" sound. I still wonder, it is from the issues of converting and degradation.

For obvious electronic noise like that it's easier to assume errors, most likely due to on the fly downconversions than BT itself. I use FLAC with BT when I have to stream to a speaker in a place where I don't have internet to use Spotify and never really encountered any noise issues with my devices and portable speakers, however that doesn't mean all other devices wouldn't.
 

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