[MattTCG]

^^Nice post LugBug. Quick question. Regarding the slight hiss you can get on the hd800 with vintage amps. I'm guess that you don't find it a distraction. But can you hear it during quiet passages, such as in classical music? 
 
 
thanks...

 

[LugBug1]

  ^^Nice post LugBug. Quick question. Regarding the slight hiss you can get on the hd800 with vintage amps. I'm guess that you don't find it a distraction. But can you hear it during quiet passages, such as in classical music? 
 
 
thanks...

Thanks
I must stress that there is no hiss at all on some of my amps with the Senns. My Nad is as quiet as any hp amp, My Marantz (b) SX550, 551 and technics are same at low to medium volume. 
 
Basically it will come down to the individual amp. But it does annoy me on my Pioneer SA508 when listening to classical (quiet passages) also the hum on my AU505... Listening to Jazz or Rock it doesn't bother me at all. So in that respect it comes down to musical preferences. 
 
I use my Nad as a bedside amp because it is so quiet. I use the HD800's for late night music and critical listening, I wouldn't be able to tolerate any hiss in that situation. In my main rig which is downstairs, the noise of my computer and of course my family etc can be louder than the hiss I get off my noisier amps, so it is less bothersome there. 
 
So its not just a case that there will be hiss with the HD800 on all vintage amps, only the ones that have a slight mismatch with impedance ime. And the HD800's will show it more than most other hps of a similar impedance. My 600's are quieter and they are 300 ohms too.
 

 

[brunk]

Excellent informative posts you guys, and LugBug, your humor made me LOL. In regards to hiss of HD-800 and speaker taps, you can simply make or buy a voltage divider (impedance box) to kill off some of the excess power which will mostly likely result in an elimination of hiss.

 

[SpeakerBox]

 
I do think sound preference is personal, I haven't heard Levinson or Krell. I did heared some Macs, but the sound is just not my cup of tea. I really don't understand that why people regard mac are so high premium brand. I did agree they are premium since middle 80's. But their early generation SS stuff (70s), they were not even sold as high price as Sansui (correct me if I am wrong). Another high end brands today suffer that they lack a product which can let people experience. Not like Pionner SX-1980, people can really get experience from lower model and dream to pursue it. Mark Levinson usually had lower sibling Proceed let people experince their house sound, but proceed was long gone too.  Does Krell have lower sibling?
Another thing, do we really have a whole system which let us hear the 10-30% audio improvement with huge price increase in amps?
In used market, do I really want to spend around $1000 into Krell and may later find out I don't like it sound at all? On the other side, I can buy Pionner sx-850 for $250 and experience it's sound and may later find I like it very much. Besides, those Krell and Levinson rarely popped up locally since they are high end.
 
 
 
And I do wish you gentlemen let sleepers sleep!!  If more people buy popular brands with higher price, there are few people compete with me in sleepers. Haha, just my evil thoughts!!

 
Cheers, we all like this hobby!!!

 
For the most part I agree with you comments on Macs - I am generally not a fan either.  That said as I understand it the 2105 is a bit of an exception to the rule - an outstanding solid-state amp.  Have not heard one yet but will at some point.  Had a Proceed Amp 3 for a couple of years and it has the Levinson house sound.  Very detailed and clean (maybe too much for me), with virtually no warmth.  Gave it up for bridged Jeff Rowland Model 1s which have the detail and some warmth.  A lower sibling for Krell would be Aragon, as rumor has it Dan D’Agostino designed some of them.  As with all his designs - awesome bass!  As with most of these items they do tend to retain value - so if you don't like them you can sell and get your money back.

 

[Meewoo]

@SpeakerBox,
 
Is Aragon high brand for Mondial? I know Acurus was low sibling for Aragon, but not knowing Aragon linked with Krell. Or could you let me know which models were designed by Don D'Agostino (or he was involved)?
 
BTW, why Pass Labs and Bryston aren't in your list? Another BTW, was Don connected with Bryston too? I couldn't google the results. Thanks!!

 

[SpeakerBox]

  @SpeakerBox,
 
Is Aragon high brand for Mondial? I know Acurus was low sibling for Aragon, but not knowing Aragon linked with Krell. Or could you let me know which models were designed by Don D'Agostino (or he was involved)?
 
BTW, why Pass Labs and Bryston aren't in your list? Another BTW, was Don connected with Bryston too? I couldn't google the results. Thanks!!

 
Correct on the Mondial/Aragon relationship.  Not sure how Dan A. got involved with the Aragon stuff - but as I recall models like 8008BB had his touch.  You may have to Google some to get other models.  The information is out there.  Pass Labs stuff is just too expensive on used market - but I would certainly consider Threshold.  There are some excellent amps in that line that can be had for reasonable prices if you are patient.  As far a Bryston (don't think Dan associated here) - they tend to be too bright for me.  I am sure you have heard the nick name they were given "Brightston".  I am very sensitive to that - in fact I hate a overly bright sound - thus my love for the Rowlands - which can verge on being dark.

 

[Fearless1]

Going to contact about a 1978 Kenwood KR9000G today, looks like a beast.  Any experience/thoughts/ feedback would be appreciated?
 
 

 

[MattTCG]

Wish that I could help you, but I've never heard it. If it sounds as good as it looks, then I'd buy it for sure.

 

[kstuart]

  Hey I just realized the topic is 'vintage integrated receiver' owners...does that exclude my sony rig since it's technically an integrated amp + tuner? If so, how far back is vintage? I might have something I bought brand new in 1994 when I was a 16 year old pup...

The word "vintage" comes from wines, which are of two types - everyday table wines, which are drunk within the year of release, and just have the name of the winery on the bottle, and "vintage" wines, which have the year when the grapes were harvested.   So, table wines are only seen when they are new, while "vintage" wines may be kept in a cellar and then brought out to drink later, which often improves the taste.
 
So, the word "vintage" means "something which is older, is characteristic of when it was made, has been stored carefully to preserve it, and is better quality than current disposable items".
 
People who only know words from seeing them in context, get the idea that "vintage" is interchangeable with "retro", and in fact, the "Madmen" TV show seems to have spawned a fad for any sort of clothes or furnishing from older eras.
 
But, technically, Denon D2000 headphones are "vintage", even though only from 5 years ago, because they are no longer sold as new.

 

[kstuart]

LugBug1 -
 
Are there drunken people singing in the streets tonight ? 

 
And please post your 650 vs 800 comparison here, I don't think it is off-topic, since it comes from the desire to use headphones with vintage equipment.

 

[LugBug1]

  LugBug1 -
 
Are there drunken people singing in the streets tonight ? 

 
And please post your 650 vs 800 comparison here, I don't think it is off-topic, since it comes from the desire to use headphones with vintage equipment.

The Newcastle game..? Ha yes indeedy! 
 
Here you go bud,

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

I'll try and lay it down without any bias..! 
 
Bass- I like the 650 bass, it has that nice welcome mid hump and punches very nicely, but it doesn't have great extension or clarity compared to the 800. What you get with the 800 is clarity of bass. Take a jazz ensemble for e.g. The 650's might render the bass drum and double bass nicely, but you can't differentiate between them when the music gets complicated. There's no hump with the 800's and it extends as low as poss. It's much bigger in scope and you really feel the atmosphere of the lower strings rather than just the thud. 
 
Mids- I like the 650 mids aswell. They are rich and what I'd describe as fun. Fun because all music sounds good on them. But what they do lack is resolution compared to the 800's. Classical music (strings) will sound sound thick and full with the 650's. This is nice, but the 800's let you appreciate the layering of the orchestration more. The finer details that you would pick out at a concert can sometimes get lost with the thicker sounding 650's. There is more light and shade with the 800's- more depth. Speed is also to be noted here. I've never though the 650's lacked speed but the HD800's are faster still. Theres also the all important tonality. All the top Senn's have great tone, this is what I love about them. But what the 800's give you is a realism that I'd not heard before with hp's. It can be really breathtaking when you first get them. I was very impressed in this regard. Unfortunately I've had them quite a while now and so I think I take it for granted a bit. 
 
Treble- I've never been a treble head. And so I do like the 650's treble. Having said that, it wasn't until I heard really good treble with other hp's that I started to feel they were lacking. The HE500 to name one. (I sold my 650's after getting them after 6 years!) I just couldn't go back to the 650's after this. They sounded dull in comparison. The 800's have a similar treble as the he500's imo. It's nice and sharp but not bright as other 'bright' hp's. Its hard to explain but imagine some card with holes in and you shine a torch through. You get shards of light coming through. The card may be a dark colour, but there are parts that are illuminated. 
If you check the 800 freq chart, you'll notice quite a substantial dip in the high mids. This is the opposite to bright headphones, AKG, Grado e.g. the 800's then they peak back up at about 6k and then as normal with most phones at 10k. This gives the mids prominence with added detail from the peaks of the treble, without the lower treble emphasis which causes fatigue and hardness ime.
 
I sold both my HE500's and LCD2's for the HD800's. Never looked back. 
 
One word of caution though, they are more sensitive than both the 650/600's and will show any hiss more than other headphones. So if you have an old amp that displays hiss with 650's it will be a lot worse with the 800's. 
Because they are more sensitive they are easier to drive and sound very good out of most amps contrary to belief. But I love how they sound out of vintage amps. As I said in my original post, they will sound like whatever you feed them. A warm amp will sound warm. A bright amp will sound bright. 
 
A quick word on soundstage, it blows the 650/600 away, both in imaging and size. Width height and positioning. The band appears more in front of you as well as the sides. Don't expect it to be a crazy size as some peeps remark. It's a nice size and larger than most headphones. 
 
I'm sure you already know about the comfort being very good. They are a little heavier than the 650's. But the weight is not noticeable once they are on your head as they are very balanced in that regard. 
 
I totally understand why peeps still rate the 650's highly. They are unique in making everything sound great, with fantastic tonality with a none fatiguing pleasant signature. But The HD800's imo are a true audiophile tool. A tool that has given me the most enjoyment yet out of any hifi equipment that I've owned. Its the most expensive hifi item I've bought, but I would buy them again tomorrow if anything happened to them. 

 

[MattTCG]

Those are truly fine impressions and comparisons. Well done!! 

 

[harrinj]

Getting a good condition Marantz 4270 from craigslist in an hour or two. I've never done a craigslist thing before...

I offered $275 and he agreed. that's somewhat good right? I think that's about as much as its worth.

I saw a GORGEOUS Marantz 2275 at Audio Specialties in Portland, OR but he wants $750 for it!!! I wonder if its on consignment or something because its not in line with the guys pricing at all or the last one that was a 2270 and he wanted $650 for that! He's got decent prices on all his stuff but that 2270 and this 2275 were a shock!

 

[harrinj]

Got the 4270. Beauty real beauty. Perfect just needs polished up. No hum or nothing. Now I've got the 4240 and the next up 4270 lol. I really want a 4300 still to go with my 4400 ;P LOL

If I just had more money...

 

[MattTCG]

Do I need to ask for pics? 

 Just checked a few shots of the 4270 on google...looks great!! I have not seen one in person.