[grawk]

The problem being that the switcher will impact the signal as well. Blind tests aren't easy to do transparently when it comes to signal impact...

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk The problem being that the switcher will impact the signal as well.

But it will have the same (minor, I would say) impact on both cables, so their different characteristics should be detectable anyway. You could take a headamp with multiple inputs if you like. AFAIK even those tend to reveal cable differences.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by some1x http://stefanaudioart.com/EquinoxHD590.html ($95 for 4-ft cable, 30 day guarantee) http://www.headphile.com/page17.html ($60 for 3.3-ft cable, 15 day guarantee, check bottom of page for HD590 cable)

Which one of these will make my cans sound more "better"?

See ya
Steve

 

[some1x]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot Which one of these will make my cans sound more "better"? See ya Steve

Buy both and return the one that doesn't satisfy. Return both if you feel like it.

 

[Mikey01]

[size=large]Well, allrighty then.[/size] Are we ready for the tar and feathers yet? It's getting hot in here. I was a NON-BELIEVER at one time. Yep! I admit it. I just diden't get it. Then I got counceling. Now I don't drink anymore. ERRR AHH, Now I don't drink anymore worrying about my headphone cable. Yeah thats it. You see I had a pair of Beyer DT880's with the coiled cable. Coiled cable = drinking problem. So I recabled just to get rid of my coiled cabled. With that change, the heavens opened and I was born again, to hear a higher level of refinement in my headphones. Now I see cable upgrades in a hole new light. A heavenly light. A sober light. A light beer. Yeah, thats the ticket.

 

[Akuan]

Backdrifter, I still "hear" difference between cables. My HD650 cable "sounds" different than the HD600 ones. The real question is the difference due to Placebo or actual electrical difference between these two cables. I'm starting to believe on the former because its effect is inconsistent.
I wouldn't mind paying extra to get better sound even if it is due to Placebo effect. The problem is that it is inconsistent and that is why there will be always be a never-ending upgrade for cables. I think I have read some where in this forum that he does not believe in the objectivist view because there is no answer to one of his question regarding a negative Placebo effect experienced by some listeners. Reaction to Placebo effect is very unpredictable and the best way to deal with it is to eliminate it in a test (like DBT).
Keep in mind that cables that do have electrical properties that can alter sound do not count here because these differences are real.
I was an absolute non-believer when I started investing on hi-fi until a co-worker let me see the "light". A year went by and I was looking for my 3rd cable upgrade, of course each upgrade was 2X or 3X improvement in sound, I went to local dealer with my co-worker to listen to speaker cable together.
There was a misscommunication between my friend and the dealer in one set up. The net result was that my co-worker was praising the wrong cable! The dealer did not swap the cable. The excuses my coworker gave just reminded me of excuses that I have read by those subjectivists during a DBT test.
I did not change camp again just because of this one event. It was the mounting scientific evidence against it that made me switched again.
As an objectivist again I still "hear" sonic difference in some cables. The difference is that I will now attribute those difference heard on other factors like, headphone positioning, mood, temperature, change in contact resistance in plug/jack, Placebo effect, etc.
If this Placebo works for you all the time then be happy with it.
I will recommend to look into better recording material, higher bit-rate compression, better DAC, better amp or better headphones for sound upgrade.
This is my last post on this thread as I feel I've said enough on this subject.
It is not intended to convince hardcore subjectivist to switch camp.





Quote:

Originally Posted by backdrifter Akuan, you have no idea how much I'd like to be in your camp. I really tried to believe they were all the same, whether Senn replacement cables, IC's, or toslinks. You have no idea what a tightwad I am. It's just my ears, man, they won't let me be content with the cheap stuff. I really wish someone would come out with a dirt cheap cable that would put all the rest to shame.

 

[Glod]

Every time I am confronted with how much I have spent on gear I nevertheless sleep well that night. The reason is that I have been tested several times by my own forgetful mind

:

a) Bought IC cable X - was convinced I had connected it (but hadn't) - listen to it the next day and got disappointed I could not hear any difference to the old cable Y.

b) Had connected an old $50 IC I have had for years, because the favourite IC was needed for another application upstairs. Sat down some days later and got increasingly aware of that something was not as it use to be. "The soundstage is compressed

Why?"

One can always argue that I subconsciously was aware of the change of cables. I am open to that but do not consider it as likely.

A related scenario is listening at night. IME it happens here frequently that the sound all of a sudden improves; gets "blacker" and with better soundstage. First I though it was me, entering a sub-awareness deam world, laying there in the sofa

Then I bought some new equipment and got a severe hum problem. I was never really able to completely isolate the culprit. It eventually disappeared after ~100h of operation. A couple of days ago it came back and I swear I had not changed anything, tuched any cables, installed any other electric related equipment in the house. It might be that we have a very sensitive local grid here. My hypothesis is that somebody has some very noisy electric equipment here in the neighbourhood which they occationally use. A cement mixer they rather watch instead of the telly, or something

Today the hum is gone again. I am curious if I will be able to detect the more subtle change in the soundstage as wll tonight.

 

[taymat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod Every time I am confronted with how much I have spent on gear I nevertheless sleep well that night. The reason is that I have been tested several times by my own forgetful mind : a) Bought IC cable X - was convinced I had connected it (but hadn't) - listen to it the next day and got disappointed I could not hear any difference to the old cable Y. b) Had connected an old $50 IC I have had for years, because the favourite IC was needed for another application upstairs. Sat down some days later and got increasingly aware of that something was not as it use to be. "The soundstage is compressed Why?" One can always argue that I subconsciously was aware of the change of cables. I am open to that but do not consider it as likely. A related scenario is listening at night. IME it happens here frequently that the sound all of a sudden improves; gets "blacker" and with better soundstage. First I though it was me, entering a sub-awareness deam world, laying there in the sofa Then I bought some new equipment and got a severe hum problem. I was never really able to completely isolate the culprit. It eventually disappeared after ~100h of operation. A couple of days ago it came back and I swear I had not changed anything, tuched any cables, installed any other electric related equipment in the house. It might be that we have a very sensitive local grid here. My hypothesis is that somebody has some very noisy electric equipment here in the neighbourhood which they occationally use. A cement mixer they rather watch instead of the telly, or something Today the hum is gone again. I am curious if I will be able to detect the more subtle change in the soundstage as wll tonight.

Soundstage is the most psychoacoustic observation of music you can detect with your ears, apart from emotion IMO. Therefore saying there was a slightly compressed soundstage, when you subconsciously think there should be a difference, is full of holes.
Also I get the same feeling as you later at night or when the house is empty, the music sounds better with blacker blacks (a stupid expression, black can only be black else it's grey!). My observations when I've had the house to myself have been an improvement in percieved detail. Why? I'm assuming because my brain isn't having to filter out noticeable background noise and I'm concentrating more on the music. IMO if you're more aware of yourself, you're more aware of your senses. However I don't live in your house or apartment. You could live in the middle of nowhere, or in the middle of a city, where electrical interference is more common and the effects upon audio equipment may be audible.

 

[Glod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by taymat Soundstage is the most psychoacoustic observation of music you can detect with your ears, apart from emotion IMO. Therefore saying there was a slightly compressed soundstage, when you subconsciously think there should be a difference, is full of holes. Also I get the same feeling as you later at night or when the house is empty, the music sounds better with blacker blacks (a stupid expression, black can only be black else it's grey!). My observations when I've had the house to myself have been an improvement in percieved detail. Why? I'm assuming because my brain isn't having to filter out noticeable background noise and I'm concentrating more on the music. IMO if you're more aware of yourself, you're more aware of your senses. However I don't live in your house or apartment. You could live in the middle of nowhere, or in the middle of a city, where electrical interference is more common and the effects upon audio equipment may be audible.

I live in a build up area, just outside a village.

I am not sure I follow you. I would not say that I subconsciously feel there should be a difference. It is very much a conscious experience, in the sense I all of a sudden can tell that the sound has changed into a more spacious one. It's not a vague hunch or itch or something. It's almost like a switch has been turned, and it feels like walking with shut eye's from the lobby into the arena or theatre. What induced that feeling might be a matter of discussion

I agree with you that the environmental noise floor is much lower in the evening and night and I am prepared to agree on that has a fundamental influence on the perception of the remaining sounds. Finer nuances are more easily audible; nuances which are important to the perception of the properties of the recording room. As to in what length my state of emotions would play a significant role, I do not know

An interesting derivation of these kinds of discussions is to apply the same views on any human perception, supposedly, not influenced by experience. "Is that blue or green?". "Is that bright or dark?" "I feel you are not agreeing. Well I am!"

Well - it might get a bit too philosophical now

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod Every time I am confronted with how much I have spent on gear I nevertheless sleep well that night. The reason is that I have been tested several times by my own forgetful mind : a) Bought IC cable X - was convinced I had connected it (but hadn't) - listen to it the next day and got disappointed I could not hear any difference to the old cable Y. b) Had connected an old $50 IC I have had for years, because the favourite IC was needed for another application upstairs. Sat down some days later and got increasingly aware of that something was not as it use to be. "The soundstage is compressed Why?" One can always argue that I subconsciously was aware of the change of cables. I am open to that but do not consider it as likely. A related scenario is listening at night. IME it happens here frequently that the sound all of a sudden improves; gets "blacker" and with better soundstage. First I though it was me, entering a sub-awareness deam world, laying there in the sofa Then I bought some new equipment and got a severe hum problem. I was never really able to completely isolate the culprit. It eventually disappeared after ~100h of operation. A couple of days ago it came back and I swear I had not changed anything, tuched any cables, installed any other electric related equipment in the house. It might be that we have a very sensitive local grid here. My hypothesis is that somebody has some very noisy electric equipment here in the neighbourhood which they occationally use. A cement mixer they rather watch instead of the telly, or something Today the hum is gone again. I am curious if I will be able to detect the more subtle change in the soundstage as wll tonight.

I have had similar experiences and they are not "psychoacoustic" or whatever. Once I had changed an interconnect and then did not listen for a few days. I forgot about the change, and couldn't figure out why my system was sounding so different. I was really concerned, until I started examining connections and such and realized that I had put in the new interconnect. Did I subconsciously "remember" I had done that, and that is why I perceived a change? Please!

Also, I have also noticed an effect on sound later at night. Just like the quality of your TV picture might be affected by the operation of certain equipment on the same circuit, it is not unreasonable to expect that later at night there is the potential for less interference from other equipment in your own house and from others nearby.

 

[taymat]

Sorry decided not to post this.

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastside504 Thanks for YOUR FACTS Fact - some people can hear a difference, others cant Fact - some system will produce a difference, others cant Is there a diffence between 87 or 89 octane gas? Well if i had a 100hp car, then there wont be a difference. If i put that gas into a 300 hp car, well then there will be a difference. Difference system will be able to show minute differences. A lower system (100hp car) will not show a difference, while a higher system (300hp car) will. Now if i took the 300hp car to a 1/4 mile track and ran it with 87 and then 89 octane will i see a difference? Most likely not. But if i had John Force drive the 1/4 mile will there be a difference? Most likely. Why? Because John Force can drive the car better then me, ie he is able to do something that i cant (different ppl will have difference in hearing). I know its a crappy analogy but i'm trying to get people to understand MY facts.

I think this is a fantastic analogy.

 

[Agenbite of Inw]

At the risk of sounding redundant I would like to rephrase some questions about cable, which is something I neglected to consider when choosing a pair of headphones from the helpful buying guide on this site (and I don't remember any mention of cables therein).  So now I have received in the mail a pair of the ATH-AD900x headphones which do not have a detachable (or upgradable) cable, and that is a problem.  So my first question is do I dare just buy a fifteen or twenty foot extension (with a quarter inch male and female end) to use with my Audio Technica headphones?  What effect will the extension cable have on the headphones?  Would an extension using rca cables be a better choice in terms of less sound loss?  Or should I just return the headphones and try to find a different pair suggested in the same buying guide, which in my price range would appear to be either the AKG Q701, the AKG Q702, or the HiFiMan HE-300?  Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
 
Thank you,
 
Agenbite