[joelongwood]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti You're missing a step in your logical process here:

Mike, I think you're missing something...............if people on this site were logical, they wouldn't be here.
As for burn-in, as you know, I was a non-believer, until I heard it with my own ears. Damn the logic......full speed ahead!

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by joelongwood Mike, I think you're missing something...............if people on this site were logical, they wouldn't be here. As for burn-in, as you know, I was a non-believer, until I heard it with my own ears. Damn the logic......full speed ahead!

Remember, it's not up to me to DISPROVE it, but rather the burden is on you to PROVE it. You cannot demand that I disprove that you were escorted from your bed last night, by extraterrestrials, and returned unaltered, and your memory of the event erased, now can you? You must offer some evidence for that claim. Same here. I don't have to supply evidence that burn-in does not occur. Those who claim it does must supply evidence that it does. This is elementary science.

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti Remember, it's not up to me to DISPROVE it, but rather the burden is on you to PROVE it. You cannot demand that I disprove that you were escorted from your bed last night, by extraterrestrials, and returned unaltered, and your memory of the event erased, now can you? You must offer some evidence for that claim. Same here. I don't have to supply evidence that burn-in does not occur. Those who claim it does must supply evidence that it does. This is elementary science.

Soooooo, I guess it's safe to assume you won't be going to church tomorrow?

 

[bdormer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti You're missing a step in your logical process here: 1. "I've read a lot of posts saying that some cans really need to be burned in before their true sound character emerges." 2. "I accept these statements without question." 3. "So what procedure(s) or technique(s) do you recommend for performing a 'burn in'? " The point is that premiss 1 must be supported, and it is not. So, premiss 2 is not justified, and of course the conclusion is too.

Well, well - we're getting quite a bit off topic here. I presume from your statements that you don't believe in "burning in" headphones. Fine and frickin dandy.

As for what I belive, and what statments I accept (or not) - what's it to you and why are you getting on my case? As a relative newcomer here, I don't know if I've somehow violated a taboo - but I don't think so. I can tell you this, however. If everyone else here is as big an ***** as you - I won't be participating much longer.

I don't know if maybe you're having a bad day, or you get your jollies by flaming other people, but you said your piece, you made your point. Now get off my back!

I asked a question. I based the question on other things I've read here. I explained that. You don't like what's in this thread - then don't read it!

End of Reply. Period. Full Stop.

 

[immtbiker]

We are all here to give advice that is hopefully in our "humble opinion". Everyone can learn something from someone, even if that someone is an idiot, they might still have something valuable to offer someone. We have learned a hell of a lot about life from our current day terrrorists, which shows us history repeats itself, and there will always be angry people, with a malicious cause.

I can say from my own personal experiences, that every headphone, source, and interconnect (speaker wire, power cord, too), have benefited hugely(?) from burn in. My particular method is to let something run, let's say a headphone or new cd player, at a medium volume for about 24 hours using full range music, such as big band, in a closet, to get the "newbies out", and then enjoy the rest of the "burn-in" time, with the music going from the ears to the brain.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti The devoted believers won't even attempt it.

But neither will the skeptics.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by joelongwood Soooooo, I guess it's safe to assume you won't be going to church tomorrow?

No, not going. Ever.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by bdormer Well, well...

"I presume from your statements that you don't believe in "burning in" headphones. Fine and frickin dandy. "

I neither 'believe' nor 'disbelieve', nor do I even care whether the phenomenon exists. I simply point out that those who claim that there is offer no concrete suppoort for it. It's an issue of method, plain and simple.

"As a relative newcomer here, I don't know if I've somehow violated a taboo - but I don't think so. "

No, but you have not shown critical thinking skills. The point is warning you about being credulous, and urging you to use critical thinking. Don't be naïve, in other words.

The issue is whether you're going to believe anything of this kind without SOME evidence.

You jumped from reading about it to accepting it without even asking whether there was any substance to it. That's the point. You need to ask these sorts of questions.

I'm not being as ass, but trying to educate you. Have you never taken classes that cover valid forms of argument, and what constitutes evidence?

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover But neither will the skeptics.

Burden of proof is on assertors.

 

[sacd lover]

By the way, I have another sennheiser hd650 that was new and unused until today. I had not had a chance to hear it. I compared it to my first hd650 (150+ hours est) using an identical setup. In fact, they were playing from the same source/cables/headamp at the same time; my gilmore v2-se has two headphone outputs. The new hd650 is brighter sounding and because of the brightness or some other factor it doesnt sound as smooth either. Its not a huge difference but I could pick out which one was which without looking. I had to go let the cat out and when I came back I forgot which headphone I was listening to last. I picked up the pair closest to me and I could tell it was the newest pair. I traced the cord back to the amp and I was right. The newer headphone was hooked up on the outside output. My setup is 3' from my chair so there is lots of slack with two ten foot cables. Its hard to figure out which one is which even trying to trace the cords back; as they were intertwined. I repeated this several times with 100% accuracy. I dont hear any better than anybody else although I may listen more intently. This is just one example, but I could plainly hear a difference and I am not that familiar with either of these pair of hd650's yet.

This is hardly conclusive but its more direct evidence than the skeptics have given to this point. I want to add that its not just up to the believers to prove their point. I DONT CARE WHO BELIEVES WHAT, but If I cant prove something, that doesnt necessarily mean the opposite is true. Those who disagree need to site evidence as well. What proof is there products, like headphones in this case, dont break in? At best the answer will likely remain WHO KNOWS.

 

[bdormer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti No, but you have not shown critical thinking skills. The point is warning you about being credulous, and urging you to use critical thinking. Don't be naïve, in other words. The issue is whether you're going to believe anything of this kind without SOME evidence. You jumped from reading about it to accepting it without even asking whether there was any substance to it. That's the point. You need to ask these sorts of questions.

You, sir, know nothing about me, my thinking skills, what I do and don't believe or what I will and won't accept. You ASSUME, based on a few lines of text. Where's your critical thinking?

As for asking questions - I did.

As we are totally off topic and you are completely out of line, I hereby refuse to entertain this discussion any futher.

I apologize to the Moderators and Members for the digression.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti Burden of proof is on assertors.

Nope its not. Your asserting there is no break in. I am not asserting anything but what I personally observe. What have you observed? What blind or semi blind tests have you conducted? I expect you to prove to me break in doesnt occur as well. If you are so certain it doesnt occur where are your facts? If you cant provide any claim to the contrary nothing has been proven; period.

 

[fewtch]

It seems to me that Mike Scarpitti is a troll, and appears as the "star" on just about every break-in related thread. Why do you guys bother, why do people keep taking the bait? It's the same thing every time, repeated over and over again ad nauseum. Guess it must hold some entertainment value...

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch It seems to me that Mike Scarpitti is a troll, and appears as the "star" on just about every break-in related thread. Why do you guys bother, why do people keep taking the bait? It's the same thing every time, repeated over and over again ad nauseum. Guess it must hold some entertainment value...

I dont think everyone is fully aware of his tactics, especially new members. But if he is finally called upon to provide and reciprocate proof, rather than sitting in judgement of others opinions as the self proclaimed EXPERT; which we also clearly know he is not, then maybe he will knock it off. Its easy to say that I wont accept something as proof and its your burden to prove whatever ad nauseum. Its not so easy to provide a counter argument. Provide some proof Mike. Lets see some of your proof burn in doesnt exist. I for one wont accept less or you will be ignored in the future.

 

[immtbiker]

I can tell you that at the end of the new sacd hybrid version of Dark Side of the Moon, on the the very last song, "Eclipse", during the last 15 seconds of the song, there is another song playing very quietlly in the right channel (the heartbeat is playing in the left channel).
Anyways...with my R-10's, RS-1's, and 3 different $5500 CD players and some expensive Cardas neutral and golden Cross IC's, (all at different times), I could not hear the background song, until all of the components, had some age on them. That is solid proof!!!
Also, there is a 24 bit Japanese import of Freddie Hubbards "Red Clay" that has some cymbals playing on the second song, that I never heard on my speakers, but then I heard them on my 2 year old HD600's. So I used them as a reference for new components, and lo and behold, until they are burned in, including cabling, I do not hear the them. That is solid proof!!! My 11 year old daughter has joined me on every test, since her hearing has not been through Sabbath and Satriani concerts and she has the same test results.