[_Spanky_]

Right now I have the Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro and it does good. I had it modded a while back and that improved things but then I started using an external DAC so most if not all the mods aren't being used now. One of the mods I had done was the muting transistors. At the time, I noticed no difference using analog outputs. Using digital out however there's many pops when starting/stopping an audio stream. I've kind of ignored it until now but it's really starting to get to me, especially with speakers that make the pops louder.
 
I'm wondering what to do? Part of me says to sell the card I have now and get a new PCI-E (for future motherboards) X-Fi model such as the Titanium Fatal1ty. Since, if OpenAL or EAX ever got serious, that would be excellent hardware to base some serious stuff off of. The other part of me says to just forget the whole gaming audio thing and just get a basic sound card. I enjoy the positioning and hardware acceleration but using an external DAC, cards like Auzentech aren't justified. Creative hasn't put out a new driver for the Titanium series for a while (hopefully one is coming, they just put out one for the card I have currently). I just don't know enough of OpenAL or EAX to figure out what direction they're going. Should I get a new X-Fi or just find a card that's compatible with OpenAL?
 
Whatever suggestions are posted, keep in mind that I use an external DAC that supports coaxial and optical. Thanks.
 
*EDIT*
I've changed the title of the thread since I think I might have some direction now. Read the rest of the thread if you want but my basic question is what's a cheap way to get bit-perfect 24/96 out of my computer, preferably in optical spdif?

 

[pmc64]

EAX had died off. No new games use it and instead use software sound. There are plenty of older games that use it and sound way better with eax enabled. directsound3d games require alchemy to restore eax while openal games should work fine.

 

[_Spanky_]

Is hardware acceleration for audio gone? What are the requirements of OpenAL? I guess I could try the USB on my external DAC for a while and see if I notice a difference.
 
I remember why I don't use USB I hear my mouse and other unwanted noise. So, I would like to solve my issue with my current sound card so that would mean getting another no-frills PCI-E card that outputs either coaxial or optical SPDIF as well as bit-perfect. While the Titanium may not be necessary, it still looks pretty good. 

 

[Shark50521]

Do you ALWAYS hear your mouse with usb or is it just with this mobo? I just must be lucky with my mobo or my ears are just crap.

 

[_Spanky_]

From what I understand, it's poor grounding somewhere in the line. I used onboard with my old motherboard and got the same issue. It really depends on the circuits involved and what hardware you use and what hardware you have hooked up to other USB connections.

 

[_Spanky_]

Quote:

EAX had died off. No new games use it and instead use software sound.

I've been thinking this over a lot. I read somewhere that in order to get EAX over digital with any X-Fi card, it has to be processed on the card during or after the DAC process then converted BACK to digital and sent out via SPDIF. Now if this is true, my gaming audio is passing through un-necessary steps and cheap DAC/ADC chips. I asked Creative a while back about this and they really had no clue what I was talking about. Even though game sounds aren't the best quality, I don't want un-necessary steps that lower quality even further then that leaves the only other thing I like about my card is that it's bit-perfect and adds little to no noise into the stream. That's not really a great feature that warrants having a X-Fi.
 
I quoted the above text because I have a silly question and can't really find an answer online: What are the requirements for OpenAL? Is it just software or does it require something special from the sound card for hardware rendering or something? If EAX is dead and OpenAL doesn't require any hardware, there really is no point for X-Fi cards now is there? It seems like more engines are just doing sound effects like echo and spacial whatnots inside the engine itself instead of relying on hardware like X-Fi to do it. I guess it's comparable to the old analog wire running from CD drives to the sound card?
 
The DAC I have has USB input and I don't use it because of the noise. I found out today that it's my mouse causing most of the noise and changing the polling interval changes the pitch of the noise. I have the latest driver and I don't plan on getting a different mouse any time soon. Also I'm pretty sure the USB on the DAC is limited to 16-Bit 48KHz so there's resampling going on and bit-perfect isn't going to happen. While bit-perfect isn't a necessity, I really don't want my audio being resampled uncontrollably.
 
So, where does this leave me? I want to sell my X-Fi (currently trying to on here and will list on eBay soon). I don't want to use USB, and onboard sound resamples. What I need is a way to get digital SPDIF, preferably optical, from my computer and into my DAC. Maybe I'll make another thread for that.

 

[pmc64]

Maybe one of those documents will answer your question
http://connect.creativelabs.com/openal/Documentation/Forms/AllItems.aspx
 
I'm not sure how it does it but if you use "speakers" as your default sound device you'll still be able to use eax, eq and all the other stuff, but if you use "spdif outf" you won't have any of it.

 

[_Spanky_]

Lotta technical stuff that goes over my head. I'm pretty sure that with all the reading, it's just software that renders to any sound device.
 
I've changed the title of the thread because I hope to get a more direct solution to my problem. I really can't help liking the X-Fi Titanium because it hits the points that I like: optical SPDIF, EAX (not that it matters) 24/96, bit-perfect and PCI-E for future-proofing. I'm mildly concerned with the possibility of it using the onboard DAC and ADC to inject EAX but if that's true, that's what my current one does so it's no worse. Pretty much, I just want to end the popping and possibly upgrade at the same time. Is there really any other option? The features I need are SPDIF, 24/96 and bit-perfect. PCI-E would be nice.

 

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by _Spanky_ /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
The features I need are SPDIF, 24/96 and bit-perfect.

 
the X-Fi prolly has a stellar jiiter and a poor PSU section? and let's not mention its drivers that only bitmatch ASIO...meaning that DS/WASAPI/KS will be resampled to the fixed sample rate you set in its drivers GUI, so basically it means that all your movies are being resampled to 44.1kHz if you regularly play music over ASIO

 
All the newest USB transports based on the Tenor TE7022L chip do what you want(and w/o drivers at that)...Audinst, TeraLink X2, Firestone Bravo, Stello U2 and many more I'm sure. Life's simple when you don't depend on some ******** consumer soundcard makers that are unable to provide properly working software drivers.
 

 
I don't use USB I hear my mouse and other unwanted noise.

 
Looks like it's your lucky day: http://www.circuitsathome.com/mcu/usb/usb-isolator

 

[_Spanky_]

leeperry, you sir are a god. I am thankful that a person of your stature replied to my thread AND replied with such helpful information
 
The TeraLink X2 is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. It looks like it does everything I want AND doesn't break the bank like every other USB device I looked at. I stumbled across a thread about it and it looks like you owned one or am I mistaken? It looks like it's a good contender among transports which tells me that it's MILES better than anything with "Creative" or "X-FI" stamped on it. I'm leary about USB noise but I think at it's price point I can't find a better deal. I always thought, why buy a unit that has features that I don't use that I pay for so thus less of my money goes into the components that I do use.  The USB Isolator looks good but I don't know that I would spring for that right now. I was halfway thinking of trying a USB PCI card to try and isolate the transport from the rest of my USB ports, I don't know if it would work but I have a USB card on-hand.
 
It was funny that you mentioned the CM108 in that thread as being pretty much terrible. That's the chip in my DAC for the USB input and I seem to only be able to get 1 sample rate (48kHz I'm guessing) out of it and it's resampled somewhere in the stream. I'm curious though, is there any reason to think that the TeraLink X2 might be less noisy than the "integrated" CM108 in my DAC?
 
So, again, thank you. I'll look at other units but I really like the TeraLink X2

 

[leeperry]

you're welcome

 
that Tenor chip doesn't require drivers, and is bit-perfect all the way in KS/WASAPI or 100% DS on XP.
 
the USB Isolator provides galvanic isolation and USB clock regeneration, this is not a "gadget"...this technology used to cost +$400.
 
I haven't heard the Teralink X2, I went for the Firestone Bravo + its DPS: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496735/firestone-bravo-reclocker-24-96-usb-transport-w-o-drivers

 

[_Spanky_]

You make it sound so good I read something about you saying the USB Isolator limits to USB 1.1? That won't affect transports will it? At least you've heard similar hardware with the same chip, that's a lot better than a blind suggestion based upon popularity and makes me feel better about the chip.
 
I made a post in the Teralink thread, maybe you have some insight on my questions

 

[leeperry]

the Tenor chip does 24/96 over 12mbit, so it's fully USB1.1 compatible and works like a treat on the USB Isolator.
 
Well, all the aforementioned transports use the same Tenor chip, I guess the difference will lie in the PSU section, the clocking/reclocking etc etc.

 

[thuantran]

Another you might consider is ESI Dr. DAC nano/JAVS DAC nano. A review is here. You can get the JAVS version from gmarket.

 

[_Spanky_]

thuantran, thanks for the suggestion. However, I don't think that unit would be completely ideal. It seems more of a portable device and lacks coaxial SPDIF, external power supply and "real" caps. I'm definitely open to looking at new devices but I think I'm pretty well in love with the Teralink X2