[Pale Rider]

I could see both an SSD and the M2Tech coax making a difference, especially the latter. But in the absence of an RFI problem, it's difficult to understand why BT and WiFi would make a difference. Understand, I hold to the view that "everything matters." It may not matter much, and different persons may be able to discern the sound/sight/smell/taste differences of something more or less than others. But everything matters. So, I am willing to consider the possibility that it does make a difference, but I am wondering why it should. With EM radiation all over the place, ranging from cell to office/home WiFi, to ordinary FM and AM, it's difficult to pinpoint why EM/RFI from the Mac itself should matter, if the chain is otherwise properly isolated/insulated. And a quick review of CPU load and processes wil show these activities impose orders of magnitude less demand on the computer than other stuff that music requires. But if you can hear it.........

Like I said, the SSD and M2Tech coax, I get. Though I would expect the latter to make a more noticeable difference. That's why I am considering adding the Halide Designs Bridge, or swapping up from my PS Audio III/Cullen IV DAC to a W4S/Ayre/Weiss. 

 

[vuntruong]

 
Hey there Headfier,
In response to some questions about my setup,  I am using a Macbook pro as a source to feed the PS Audio DLIII dac via a 2 feet long Toslink cable.  I believe the fiber optic cable is made out of polished glass, but I really don’t know, and I really don’t care.  I was under the impressions that when a fiber optic cable transmits lights (digital signal 1, and 0s) over such a short distance (2 ft), the quality of the signal should remain constant.  One only needs a high quality cable when one is transmitting digital signal over long distances.  The Dac feeds a Vintage Kenwood 600 integrated amplifier & Pioneer Spec4.  The Kenwood 600 is use to drive home made speakers ( not too different from Zaph audio Zrt, however, in a Double taper Quarter Wave Transmission line enclosure with 12 inch woofer loading the back horn).  The Pioneer Spec 4 is use to drive the woofer.  I have VMware fusion running in Unity mode because I use softwares (for school and work) that doesn’t have a mac version.  Why would RF, Bluetooth, Wifi, Noise in the Macbook pro, AC power noise have any influence on digital light signal (toslink)?  Hmmm.  I thought digital light signal was immune to interference.  Maybe the Toslink module in the macbook pro is not that good.  Oh well, I can’t hear any audible diff, so maybe I’ll try PM with headphones or something.  Maybe I can hear some diff having the drivers really close to my ears.   

 

[mrspeakers]

With due respect to the earlier poster, I concur, it's almost inconceivable that having Bluetooth or WiFi affect sound quality.  I've embarrassed myself often enough to not say "impossible," but barely...
 
A computer is filled with parts that radiate as much power, and often at "offensive" frequencies, that there is simply no reason these systems should have a specific effect unless it's radio picked up by the DAC. Even then, it's WAY less power and noise than a typical phone creates, especially Blackberries, which affects ANYTHING around. This sounds like a "amazing power cord" concept...
 
Back to my task; I'm configuring a Mac Mini as a dedicated music system right now.  Pure Music with the HiFace (not going to be swapped, so should be OK) and a 1TB music drive.  It'll be hooked up to a 10' projector and my main theatre system, as well.  Very interested to see how the Burson does hooked up to a Theta amp, with the Mac front end...

 

[Roller]

Network adapters can affect DAC's sound, but not as in changing their SQ. As the hardware interfaces with the remaining components, it can introduce variable amounts of latency, which by itself can introduce small gaps in audio. But the debate is about SQ changes when Bluetooth/WLAN/LAN is enabled/in use, and along as the computer hardware isn't faulty, there shouldn't be sound degradation of any kind due to switching on and off network adapters.

 

[bixby]

Several folks have posted that they hear no difference when using cheap toslink cables, stock power cables, and radios on.  GREAT!  No one is trying to  make you believe you hear something that you do not.  However, as your system gets better and  as your ears are trained to listen to what are minute differences in the scheme of things, you may find that you too hear some differences.
 
At least for those who have tried the above have an open mind and ears.   That's what this hobby is about.  If not we would not have folks trying to re cable their headphones, judging the sonic merits of different LOD cables, amps, players, etc.
 
As for digital being all about 1s and 0s getting to some place intact, you are fooling yourself if you think that is all that matters.  Trust me (or not)  all those folks who say they do hear differences with various tweaks, mods and changes are not lemmings.  They try and judge for themselves as you did, albeit with a different result.
 
All I was trying to point out is that to my ears these things matter.  If you have not tried it you should not be commenting on it.  Kind of like some folks here who recommend stuff they have never heard just because they read something about it.  Not so credible in my book!

 

[mrspeakers]

I am an engineer, with experience designing digital and audio systems, and so I sometimes get a bit "binary" in my perspectives, which is probably not great in an analog world.  
 
The "1's and 0's" arguments have been around since digital was invented, but if you understand how the systems work at a low level, and where things like true re-clocking can occur, that should inform where an effect is even possible.  Clocking IS what makes a 1 and 0 not the same as another 1 and 0, that's jitter.  The data is not smooth, essentially, coming out of a DAC with high jitter.  Now the question is in different system, where is the clock generated?
 
In my system I have some very advanced re-clocking that occurs outside my Mac via coax, and for USB as well, so jitter is eliminated and there is no question that system, cables, etc. are not going to have a material impact. On the other hand, if you have products that utilize a standard Tenor or TI USB chip or use a synchronous USB interface, they do not have particularly excellent clocking, and unless the manufacturer is bragging about re-clocking or jitter reduction somewhere, may actually benefit from this, more so with a Windows system than a Mac. 
 
So I would suggest that what you propose might benefit systems with USB interfaces that don't reclock, but people should know more about their equipment before they invest in SSDs, or maybe if they find they ARE susceptible to improvements from these types of fixes, buy a quality USB to SPDIF device or a better asynchronous USB DAC with great reclocking.  
 
Toslink is a whole other problem.  It's never generated great results for me so I have never paid attention to the problem.
 

 

[warp08]

Quote:

I am an engineer, with experience designing digital and audio systems, and so I sometimes get a bit "binary" in my perspectives, which is probably not great in an analog world.  
 
The "1's and 0's" arguments have been around since digital was invented, but if you understand how the systems work at a low level, and where things like true re-clocking can occur, that should inform where an effect is even possible.  Clocking IS what makes a 1 and 0 not the same as another 1 and 0, that's jitter.  The data is not smooth, essentially, coming out of a DAC with high jitter.  Now the question is in different system, where is the clock generated?
 
In my system I have some very advanced re-clocking that occurs outside my Mac via coax, and for USB as well, so jitter is eliminated and there is no question that system, cables, etc. are not going to have a material impact. On the other hand, if you have products that utilize a standard Tenor or TI USB chip or use a synchronous USB interface, they do not have particularly excellent clocking, and unless the manufacturer is bragging about re-clocking or jitter reduction somewhere, may actually benefit from this, more so with a Windows system than a Mac. 
 
So I would suggest that what you propose might benefit systems with USB interfaces that don't reclock, but people should know more about their equipment before they invest in SSDs, or maybe if they find they ARE susceptible to improvements from these types of fixes, buy a quality USB to SPDIF device or a better asynchronous USB DAC with great reclocking.  
 
Toslink is a whole other problem.  It's never generated great results for me so I have never paid attention to the problem.
 

Well put.  This is the very same reason why I used the Sonicweld Diverter (on sale because I'm upgrading to the new version) and the Antelope Audio Zodiac+ DAC (on sale because I'm upgrading to the just released Gold version) with my MacBook Pro.  The Zodiac series DACs sport some of the best clocks in the industry, IMHO.  Even though the Zodiac can accept straight USB input at higher sampling rates, it's beneficial to introduce the Diverter into the chain to dejitter the USB audio stream and perform a high-quality SPDIF conversion into the Zodiac.
 
Here is the Zodiac Gold owner's manual if anyone's interested for the specs:  http://www.antelopeaudio.com/SUPPORT/Manuals/zodiac_gold_manual_web.pdf  (it's about a 4MB PDF).
 
I have started with the HiFace as well, but had lots of issues with their OSX driver.  The Diverter is much more expensive, but uses native Mac drivers and compatible with Amarra.
 
Some specs of the new Diverter are here:  http://www.cryo-parts.com/index.php/sonicweld-diverter-192
 
 

 

[mrspeakers]

The diverter looks very cool but $1799?  Holy smokes!  M2Tech's latest driver has solved the GSOD problem I had, though they emailed it to me.  For whatever reason what is on their site isn't current.  That IS the problem with this product, custom driver.  On the other hand, the quality is amazing and the price is 8% of the diverter.  You could buy a HiFace AND a Burson AND a set of HD650s for that much.  I'm sure it's awesome, but it's not for everyone...  

 

[warp08]

Quote:

The diverter looks very cool but $1799?  Holy smokes!  M2Tech's latest driver has solved the GSOD problem I had, though they emailed it to me.  For whatever reason what is on their site isn't current.  That IS the problem with this product, custom driver.  On the other hand, the quality is amazing and the price is 8% of the diverter.  You could buy a HiFace AND a Burson AND a set of HD650s for that much.  I'm sure it's awesome, but it's not for everyone...  

Your point is well taken, but the truth is that even the 24/96 generation Diverter like mine is in a different class from the M2Tech product.  No, of course it's not 10 times better, but there is a significant difference in sound quality and that's not counting the cost of the extra USB-A to USB-B cable (not needed with the HiFace), which in my case is another $3K.  Then again, this is high-end audio and sometimes it costs an insane amount of money to get an extra 10-20% improvement.  The picture shows a Locus Design top-of-the-line 3FT Cynosure USB cable with a 6G Nano featured purely for comparison purposes.
 

 

[bixby]

On another topic, how do you like the Nano 6g for sound quality?

 

[Bubu1]

Quote:

The diverter looks very cool but $1799?  Holy smokes!  M2Tech's latest driver has solved the GSOD problem I had, though they emailed it to me.  For whatever reason what is on their site isn't current.  That IS the problem with this product, custom driver.  On the other hand, the quality is amazing and the price is 8% of the diverter.  You could buy a HiFace AND a Burson AND a set of HD650s for that much.  I'm sure it's awesome, but it's not for everyone...  

I agree that the Hiface is a very good piece of hardware.  I actually use a jkenny battery-modded version with pure music and I really like it in my system.  I find the combination of the hiface and pure music to be very resolving and really very enjoyable to listen to especially with hi res files.
May I ask how you got them to email you the latest drivers?  I assume that you are using the Hiface with your mac mini and if so, what improvements have you seen with the new driver?  Would you be willing to share it?
Thanks,
Tom

 

[mrspeakers]

I just emailed Marco from their contacts and he emailed me the driver.  PM me your email and I'll send it to you, or just email Marco Manunta <m.manunta@m2tech.biz> and ask for the latest.  They still have an older version posted online.  Why?  I don't know.
 

 

[warp08]

Quote:

On another topic, how do you like the Nano 6g for sound quality?

It has actually pretty impressive SQ straight out of its HP-out with the JH16Pros for dance and rock, all things considered.  Great gym gear and can't beat the comfort, even though it's almost too small for efficient operation via that mini touchscreen.  For that the 4/5G Nanos were much better, but required a case to be clipped onto your belt or T-shirt.

 

[Pale Rider]

Quote:

Several folks have posted that they hear no difference when using cheap toslink cables, stock power cables, and radios on.  GREAT!  No one is trying to  make you believe you hear something that you do not.  However, as your system gets better and  as your ears are trained to listen to what are minute differences in the scheme of things, you may find that you too hear some differences.
 
At least for those who have tried the above have an open mind and ears.   That's what this hobby is about.  If not we would not have folks trying to re cable their headphones, judging the sonic merits of different LOD cables, amps, players, etc.
 
As for digital being all about 1s and 0s getting to some place intact, you are fooling yourself if you think that is all that matters.  Trust me (or not)  all those folks who say they do hear differences with various tweaks, mods and changes are not lemmings.  They try and judge for themselves as you did, albeit with a different result.
 
All I was trying to point out is that to my ears these things matter.  If you have not tried it you should not be commenting on it.  Kind of like some folks here who recommend stuff they have never heard just because they read something about it.  Not so credible in my book!

@bixby, I completely agree with you here. I am not saying that BT & WiFi cannot have an impact, but I am saying I have not been able to detect any difference. And due to the amount of RF running around a given environment—e.g., my office—I may never be able to hear that difference.
 
@vuntruong: read what bixby and mrspeakers wrote. That says it all. I started into hi-fi as a young man, and also a percussionist, and it took a long time for my ears then to start picking up the differences between equipment. I am old enough now, with old ears and tinnitus, to know that there is more going on than I can often tease out, but what is still amazing is that I can still have a friend or my wife make me listen blind, and 7+ times out of ten, I can tell the difference between 256 and 24/96. I just got done, as a matter of fact, A/B-ing the lossless rip of Steely Dan's Gaucho, and the HDTracks hi-res version. No contest. Could tell every single time. The uncompressed remastered version of Band on the Run was not quite as a fair a comparison, because the remaster sounds different than my original CD. Keith Jarrett's Køln Concert is extraordinarily superior on the hi-res.
 
There are plenty of people who, when first exposed to the differences, cannot discern them. Does that mean they do not exist? No. It only means they cannot hear it.  FWIW, I used to think the same thing about Toslink. No more.
 

 

 

[bixby]

thanks warp08.  I have a nano 4g that I throw in my pocket when hiking or biking.  I was just wondering if the 6g is a bit better via hp out.  I am using my lowly Westone UM3X for those activities.  Wish I could have some of Jerry's stuff but these do fine for my budget.