[mayweather]

Quote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but discussing a genre means you are discussing it as a whole? So we can conclude we are indeed generalizing the entire spectrum of "music" that qualifies as rap into one general Genre in order to classify it.
 
 
Why do we "rock people" do it? First there are different reasons, and I am sure on a few accounts there are racism motives. However, I think most often than not it is the same way people bash pop, they simply are not happy with how it degrades the industry and lowers peoples expectations until they will put up with any form of crap. I am not the first, won't be the last... best thing you could do is get used to it. That is my advice.
 
You are seriously threatening, hypothetically, me over a forum? People who physically hurt other people over arguments/disputes/different views are emotionally and (arguably) intellectually compromised people, and they go to jail in most nations of this earth. It is known as assault and battery. Grow up, kid. You don't have to like me and I really couldn't care less if you respected me or not, but you could at least respect yourself enough to at least  pretend that you are mature and capable of a conversation and debate. You even have the time to chose your words when you post on a forum, I don't see any drafts. Try again.
 
Despite what you may or may not have been taught by rap or your upbringing or whatever, resorting to violence to feel you have proved a point clearly indicates you have difficiencies in your character. Resorting to violence in this contexts means you are pathetic enough that it was the only option you had left. 
 
As far as going crazy over listening to happy music... LOL. If happy music makes you so upset, then maybe you don't like being shown something you don't posses. A good lesson in life for you, and anyone to learn is that it is ALWAYS best to focus on what you have in your life and what you can do and not what you do not have. If happy music is all it takes to break your resolve you should really turn to eastern religions or therapy.
 
Canada is the second largest country in the world. I like how you get so upset over generalization and then condense 3.5 million square miles into one place and mentality. 
 
You are a big rebel by not checking out my suggestion. I really couldn't care less. It is your loss. If you really enjoyed rap you would probably be more willing to expand your understanding of it and explore it.
 
Lastly, you merely served to reinforce any preconceptions I might have about people who listen to rap. Talk about self defeating. What you should have done is posted several songs/artists/cds that would at least try and prove me wrong. 

My bad. Maybe it's because I'm enemies with everyone? Your life ain't worth nothing to me, dude. Do I have to resort to violence? No. But take it like this, either you punk me or I punk you, simple. There are sheep and there are lions, I'm either a sheep or I'm Lucifer (and that's levels above a lion). A strong offense kills any defense you might have to take up in the near future. Take it like this, I can either strike back at you X10 or I can leave it and your memory will eat me alive, that's why I do **** out of impulse. Time is  like your body being stuck in a river and it keeps flowing, NO PRESENT because time is never still, there's only a past and future. We're in the future or heading into the future right now. Once I leave the current situation, I'm not going to go back to it, what's in the past is in the past, so if some guy like you comes and pisses me off, right now is my only chance (aka impulse).
 
And rap is rap. There are different GENRES of rap. Okay, now about generalizing. I wasn't talking about rap, I was talking about you generalizing the rap fans.
 
And don't count on people going to jails all the time. Ever consider some people enjoy jail? Trust me dude, there are many serial killers and crazy men that have never been caught.
 
Take it like this, you don't have to be a retard to have your mind filled with rage. I don't know if you've ever watched "Oz" the T.V. series
Kareem Said was like a representation of a powerful/respected/prophet/leader or whatever you wanna call him, that was conflicted with serious rage. Guys like 2Pac, there are many altercations and examples of 2Pacs rage but for one > this video might explain
And no, 2Pac was no ****ing savage or retard > take this interview at 17 > 25... omg, did he lose braincells?

 
 
And no point is being proven if we did have an altercation. It would just be defended myself, like I said I have great "Rage".
And I don't understand what you mean about your crazy comments on happy ****. I can't exactly help it, can I now? And I don't really want nothing in the world but some earphones and a portable music player (I'm being serious, commercial material objects like cars and stupid **** don't interest me/nothing in the world really interests me... but that's a whole diff story and I'm not going to go around writing a 5,000 page essay).
 
And I just say Canada because I don't know of the presence of Kody Scotts in your vicinity.
And I'm not trying to rebel. A person I can't respect, I can't stand, I can't look at, I can't listen to. Simple.
 
 
I must be going now........................

 

[semisight]

Quote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but discussing a genre means you are discussing it as a whole? So we can conclude we are indeed generalizing the entire spectrum of "music" that qualifies as rap into one general Genre in order to classify it.
 
 
Why do we "rock people" do it? First there are different reasons, and I am sure on a few accounts there are racism motives. However, I think most often than not it is the same way people bash pop, they simply are not happy with how it degrades the industry and lowers peoples expectations until they will put up with any form of crap. I am not the first, won't be the last... best thing you could do is get used to it. That is my advice.
 
You are seriously threatening, hypothetically, me over a forum? People who physically hurt other people over arguments/disputes/different views are emotionally and (arguably) intellectually compromised people, and they go to jail in most nations of this earth. It is known as assault and battery. Grow up, kid. You don't have to like me and I really couldn't care less if you respected me or not, but you could at least respect yourself enough to at least  pretend that you are mature and capable of a conversation and debate. You even have the time to chose your words when you post on a forum, I don't see any drafts. Try again.
 
Despite what you may or may not have been taught by rap or your upbringing or whatever, resorting to violence to feel you have proved a point clearly indicates you have difficiencies in your character. Resorting to violence in this contexts means you are pathetic enough that it was the only option you had left. 
 
As far as going crazy over listening to happy music... LOL. If happy music makes you so upset, then maybe you don't like being shown something you don't posses. A good lesson in life for you, and anyone to learn is that it is ALWAYS best to focus on what you have in your life and what you can do and not what you do not have. If happy music is all it takes to break your resolve you should really turn to eastern religions or therapy.
 
Canada is the second largest country in the world. I like how you get so upset over generalization and then condense 3.5 million square miles into one place and mentality. 
 
You are a big rebel by not checking out my suggestion. I really couldn't care less. It is your loss. If you really enjoyed rap you would probably be more willing to expand your understanding of it and explore it.
 
Lastly, you merely served to reinforce any preconceptions I might have about people who listen to rap. Talk about self defeating. What you should have done is posted several songs/artists/cds that would at least try and prove me wrong. 

That, sir, was an attack. Please refrain from lowering yourself to that level in the future, as I may not be a mod, but I know who they are and how to find them.
 
Both of you are at fault for your generalizations. I'm not going to go find them, you can do so yourselves. As for rap as a form of music, if it doesn't speak to you, so be it. There was no need for you to enter this thread at all. Contrary to popular belief, not all rappers wear grills and walk with a limp. If they do, in my opinion they've sold out their music, unless they rap about how fun it is to be rich.
 
If you want to hear some of what I think is good rap, take a few minutes and listen to this:
 

 
Please don't call yourself a "rock" person. You make the rest of us look bad.

 

[Rockford]

I'm assuming he was speaking of land mass not population as population doesn't show how large a country is.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_outlying_territories_by_total_area

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

GTFO that's incredible! Who's first?

If you are going to do that, you should have at least edited out the rest of my post... It looks pretty weak when the explanation for that comment is right next to it -_-
 
Quote:

You make assumptions about a genre you know nothing about, you site example as Lil Wayne and Eminem as reasons the genre degrades the music industry as a whole yet you know nothing of those artists whom offer intelligent, well written, socially conscious music.
 
You come here to bait fans of a genre you dislike which is called trolling, you offer nothing to this threads intended content.
 

They are not assumptions, they are observations which is an important difference. Assumptions implies it is based off nothing. Observation means it was based off things I have experienced through my senses. You don't have to like my conclusion, but your disapproval is subjective and does not change the validity of my current view point, or yours for that matter.
 
I don't dislike rap. I enjoy a few rap CDs every now and again and I know there is hope for the genre. Sure, my repetoire is limited, but I am allowed to be selective. What I dislike is how the music is made. You can change how something is produced without changing what it is. 
 
As a fan, you should be less willing than even me to put up with the lack of quality and dedication than anyone else. 
 
I have already stated that I am possibly missing the point of rap. Whether or not it is above me or beneath me is subjective.
 
 
 
Now as fans I have asked you for some suggestions and advice. If you could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

 

[mayweather]

I mean this is a good thread, so I wouldn't like it to go away, no matter what the altercation was.
I just see that as a derail. It added to 5 good verses of good songs I added, though.
 
 
EDIT
And I got nothing wrong with opinions.
But you don't like the music and you came insulting it.
I reread your first post and it wasn't a pleasant read
"Crap", "Not music", "Theme music got more soul", "Alpha male pretenders"
etc
etc
 
I really need to go right now

 

[racer_x124]

Quote:

 
If you want to hear some of what I think is good rap, take a few minutes and listen to this:
 

 
Damn man I just saw POS and Dessa (of doomtree) and was hopeing the whole tile Otter would come out. No luck thought did see this guy though (just signed to Rhyme Sayers)
 

 
Thanks for clearing that up. Glad wikipedia didn't let me down!
 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

That, sir, was an attack. Please refrain from lowering yourself to that level in the future, as I may not be a mod, but I know who they are and how to find them....
 
*cut for space*
 
Please don't call yourself a "rock" person. You make the rest of us look bad.

Never said I was a rock person... It was how he chose to categorize me. Plus it doesn't make "us" look any worse than the people who think any music minus classical is heresy ^__^. People are going to have strong opinions, that can't be changed. The only thing that can be changed is peoples willingness to participate in intelligent debate instead of a holier than thou game of tag. Since the first of that is not to be found here, which is perfectly fine, we should just move on.  Also, no one seems to want to accept my peace offering and give me any suggestions...
 
It really bewilders me how you scold me for an "attack" when he directly and physically threatened me, as hypothetical as it was. I am not going to flag his post because I simply don't care enough, but I am shocked by the level of immaturity and disrespect for me, and the forum. Shocked in the sense I am surprised, not offended. I expect to find opinionated people here, and that is fine, thats what makes forums great, but garbage like that is unacceptable. Go ahead and flag mine if you feel so self righteous and vindictive, but you would do better to put things in perspective. Perhaps then it would be nice and clear I did not cross any lines.
 
My response was foremost a rebuddle, and secondly putting his words in perspective, however unflattering and cold it may be perceived, is not in any way shape or form an attack. I didn't put words in his mouth, I didn't mock him and I didn't threaten him in any way. If he does not like my suggestions/advice and comments then perhaps he should have been more civilized in the first place. -_-
 
Also, you are quite correct in stating you are not a mod, so please - don't act like one.

 

[Rockford]

 
Quote:

 

They are not assumptions, they are observations which is an important difference. Assumptions implies it is based off nothing. Observation means it was based off things I have experienced through my senses. You don't have to like my conclusion, but your disapproval is subjective and does not change the validity of my current view point, or yours for that matter.
 
I don't dislike rap. I enjoy a few rap CDs every now and again and I know there is hope for the genre. Sure, my repetoire is limited, but I am allowed to be selective. What I dislike is how the music is made. You can change how something is produced without changing what it is. 
 
As a fan, you should be less willing than even me to put up with the lack of quality and dedication than anyone else. 
 
I have already stated that I am possibly missing the point of rap. Whether or not it is above me or beneath me is subjective.
 
 
 
Now as fans I have asked you for some suggestions and advice. If you could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

Observations are only valid when they are based on enough sample information, something you do not have thus you are invalidating your own observations. You have admited that your "repetoire is limited" yet you believe yourself to be subjective, you however are bordering on ignorance sadly.
 
You can not pigeon hold an entire genre based on your lack of knowledge about the different aspects of that genre, anyone would clearly see the faults in your methods and would urge you to "show your work" so to speak.
 
Personally i don't agree that as fans we should be less willing to put up with lack of quality/dedication. As is with all music, what people like is very relative to many factors and is neither right or wrong. You can dislike artists, which i do as i am not a fan of artists such as Lil Wayne who cheapen hip hop in my opinion. The way you show your distaste is not purchasing that artists albums and speaking your opinions about that artists work.
 
The difference with you is that you seem to think it is fine to subject a whole genre to your distaste due to what little you have actually experienced. If you can not see the ignorance in that, than anything i am able to offer you will simply fly over your head.
 
If you truly want an opinion on what to try i suggest Mos Def and Talib Kweli are Blackstar. As a 27 year old who has been listening to hip hop since roughly 1996 when this album came out it changed hip hop for me. It is bar none my favorite album and it is still fresh as the day i bought it when i was 15 years old.

 

[racer_x124]

Quote:

If you truly want an opinion on what to try i suggest Mos Def and Talib Kweli are Blackstar.

They came to rock it onto the tip top, best alliance in of hip hop.
 
I didn't get that album fully until the 3rd time I listened to it and realized it was amazing. Here's my favorite off the album (as stated before)
 

 

[Necrolic]

Honestly, Nas and Eminem are really the only living rappers I can think of off the top of my head that are really talented. The Game isn't bad but not on their level.
 
Quote:

Eminem best rapper, I shall leave this thread now...to me he's just an unskilled little whiner w/ an unbearable pitch, he's Dre's trojan horse

You clearly haven't listened to enough of his work. A lot of his stuff is really gimmicky I'll admit, but the guy has massive talent when he makes use of it.
 
Here's a few examples:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzHnNPLWsDQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgYxIEM2Hww (3:05)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diJnAxR3r9Y (2:20)
 
There's plenty more, the guy on the first page posted a lot of his older stuff that's pretty sick. And I don't think you can honestly say his more known stuff like "Lose Yourself" and "When I'm Gone" are bad. Sure there's awful stuff like "Kim" and "Must be the Ganja" (admittedly that one is catchy), but he's definitely talented.
 
In a lot of his stuff his lyrics mean nothing, but he puts it together so well that nobody minds, and when he actually puts some effort into it, his lyrics are amazing. I won't even start on his flow, it speaks for itself. Just compare his part in the third link to Lil Wayne's part, it's embarassing how much better he is.

 

[Surreal.]

Quote:

Rap, IMO, is very close to not even being music. As far as rap "being dead" I think it is pretty normal it is seen as that. It the same crap that has been recycled and reused since day one. They have thus refined the crap, making it ****tier, or a purer form of **** if you will .
Even 8 bit video game soundtracks have more soul and music in them. Check Chrono Trigger if you don't agree... Games like that ARE THE BOMB.
 
That being said, I thoroughly enjoyed Kid Cudi's "Man on the Moon" CD. Very refreshing, especially for a rapper. I really appreciated the outsourcing of musicians for a lot of songs. Makes it so much richer and easier to listen to. The man has a beautiful voice too.
 
Rappers should respect that they cannot play instruments, and that playing with 1/2 bit midi files on the computer is not acceptable. Rappers make tons of money writing about absolutely nothing, I am sure they have money to pay talented musicians to record their elementary melodies. A lot of them sample real songs, which is not so bad... but hardly original. It does offer higher sound quality but no originality,it is a catch 22. Don't play the electronica card either. Good Electronica is the same as composing. It is a different talent and very respectable -unlike the fruityloop-esque songs rappers produce.
 
As far as Eminem goes... he is whiny and a bit of a tool, but technically he is way better than 99% of other rappers I have heard. He can actually rhyme, upbeat, downbeat and still maintain a flow. Also, he is not ashamed to show that 1/2 of his verses hold absolutely no meaning and are just to try and rhyme. He just has fun making fun of people and goes off on little tangents. His apparent honesty is refreshing. At least he is not trying to pass it off as high quality, world class music.
 
"Drop the World" with Lil Wayne and Eminem is a great example of how, regardless of whether or not you like him as a "musician", he is way more skilled in his ability to play with rhythm and actually rhyme...
 
Lil Wayne has big problems with pronunciation and should attend speech therapy for a prolonged period of time- that is if he ever makes it out. He doesn't even have a cool excuse for it... he is addicted to cough syrup. Talk about a LAME addiction.
 
Lastly, if you want quality rhymes and good recording with real instruments and talented musicians, without being filled with misogyny, racism, hate, violence, drugs, crime, and just about all regrettable things in this world, you should check out Flobots... Good stuff.
 
Although I don't doubt their positive and forward thinking themes will make alpha-male pretenders feel quite uneasy and out of place. Plus, they are SO boring without ridiculous diamonds on their teeth, and T-shirts that could pas for dresses. But I digress.

 
 
Not going to type out a long response seeing the thread is getting derailed pretty fast as it is.
 
I just want to throw it out there that if you are going to make statements claiming hip hop isn't music at least have the decency to do some research and get educated on the topic before making any such statements. 
 
If you think hip hop is the only genre with "sell-outs" or artists choosing to following the path of commercialization and materialism than you are sadly misguided. 
 
Thus pointing out those examples is irrelevant and further discredits your argument.
 
As for the music having no soul, do yourself a favor and listen to some 9th Wonder, J Dilla, Pete Rock, DJ Premier, DJ Shadow. One can easily make a case supporting that these gentleman have more "soul" than anyone in your genre of reference, metal.
 
I hope you do take some time to give these guys a listen. Sampling a classic is one thing, but when you can create an entire work of art entirely composed of samples to the point where each one is unrecognizable and molded into something unique, there is more than "pure ****" there. 
 

 

[Rockford]

There are always at least a couple gems on eminem albums, he just makes so much stuff to get sales that you need to look for those great tracks.
 
Nas i agree no one can say he isn't easily one of the artists who can be called the greatest of all time, there are very few who fall in the GOAT category imo and Nas is easily one of them.

 

[mcnoiserdc]

I only listen to Gospel RAP now but, The game is the only rapper now... 

 

[Necrolic]

Quote:

There are always at least a couple gems on eminem albums, he just makes so much stuff to get sales that you need to look for those great tracks.
 
Nas i agree no one can say he isn't easily one of the artists who can be called the greatest of all time, there are very few who fall in the GOAT category imo and Nas is easily one of them.

Yep. Nas, Biggie, Pac, Rakim, and of course Big L (a gem that surprisingly few people have heard of) are really the only people I'd put in the GOAT category. There are other rappers who have made songs that are on the level of some of theirs, but those 5 are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that are consistently amazing. Eminem's good stuff is up there, but not quite on their level, and like you said, he makes too much crap to fill out his LPs to put him in that category.
 
For those who haven't heard Big L before:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-829mzD0ro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBrzEVJwYFg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzyaAuPh1lE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUadVQZOX4M&feature=related
 
Listen to that last one especially, he's easily on Pac's level. I've never met a person who knows who Big L is who would argue the fact that he has the best freestyle of all time.

 

[sokolov91]

 
Quote:

 

Observations are only valid when they are based on enough sample information, something you do not have thus you are invalidating your own observations. You have admited that your "repetoire is limited" yet you believe yourself to be subjective, you however are bordering on ignorance sadly.
 
You can not pigeon hold an entire genre based on your lack of knowledge about the different aspects of that genre, anyone would clearly see the faults in your methods and would urge you to "show your work" so to speak.
 
Personally i don't agree that as fans we should be less willing to put up with lack of quality/dedication. As is with all music, what people like is very relative to many factors and is neither right or wrong. You can dislike artists, which i do as i am not a fan of artists such as Lil Wayne who cheapen hip hop in my opinion. The way you show your distaste is not purchasing that artists albums and speaking your opinions about that artists work.
 
The difference with you is that you seem to think it is fine to subject a whole genre to your distaste due to what little you have actually experienced. If you can not see the ignorance in that, than anything i am able to offer you will simply fly over your head.
 
If you truly want an opinion on what to try i suggest Mos Def and Talib Kweli are Blackstar. As a 27 year old who has been listening to hip hop since roughly 1996 when this album came out it changed hip hop for me. It is bar none my favorite album and it is still fresh as the day i bought it when i was 15 years old.

Very well written and I agree with your statements and logic.
 
My personal repetoire, as in CD I own and paid for is limited. What I have listened to is actually fairly large. While I would never claim to know the small guys, I am familiar with methodman/redman , immortal technique, biggie, ice cube, gangstar, jay-z, little wayne, eminem, and lots of rappers who I didn't know, don't remember, or whose names I didn't catch. I have heard tupac, but I do not remember it at all.
 
I mean I will even admit to liking limp bizkit. Sure, Fred Durst is a huge douchebag, but they are catchy, their songs sound great and are recorded well. And frankly, I think some of their songs are great, but a lot are also very bad. They are that rap-metal fusion that was popular a while ago, like Linkin Park. I think that stuff is great because I get want I want. Real musicianship, stuff that sounds amazing when I play it through my hi end gear, and stuff that is varied and diverse. Stuff like that shows there is a hope, and when implemented properly rap is very powerful. 
 
"A place for my head" is a song that comes to mind that is incredibly well written, has good flow, and also has the production values and musician ship I am talking about.
 
The same way you feel little wayne cheapens hip-hop, I feel most hip-hop cheapens music. If you are following me correctly I hope you the link and see this just as how I feel and not as a personal attack... not EVERYTHING has to do with you personally. But, I won't blame people here on the forum for giving into the thing that makes them who they are, their ego.
 
Rap is popular now-a-days and I do not live under a rock, I am in college. Although at this point I wish I could escape it, I am constantly exposed to rap.
 
I will listen to what you, semisight and rockford have posted when I have time to listen properly, and when I am not arguing as that is not good for a first impression.
 
And if people want me to contribute to this thread then hell, Mike Shinoda is the best rapper out there for being flexible, passionate, and able to make his craft work in hard conditions. That is commendable, respectable, and what I am talking about.
 
Lastly, metal was just an example... MAN you people are literally... telling me to look for meaning at the same time -_-. I am NOT a metal head coming in here to piss on your parade. Metal is just the most often counter argument when rap is dissed, so I used that as an example. Not to mention it is a poor argument as you are essentially saying not only is rap ****, but metal is also ****, but worse.