Bass tweaks for the marvelous Millett Hybrid Max?
Sep 26, 2011 at 10:43 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

chadbang

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Posts
5,998
Likes
33
So I spent a full day playing with my Millet Hybrid Max (er, work?) and I've found what was bothering me were tubes that weren't a good match for my Senn HD650s and the amp. They were some unknown brand with a really harsh midrange and a lackluster presentation. Putting in a nice set of RCA 12FK6 tubes, I'm loving it!

But.... As a confirmed bass head, I'm wondering if there are any other fairly simple tweaks know to maximize the bass on the MHM? As far as I can tell, this is a standard build using the recommended parts. At first I had heard something about using vitamin Qs as bypass cpas that added sweetness, and that sounds luscious, but apparently (written as a side note in the diyforum) this added sweetness may subtract some bass.

So does anyone know what areas I might consider tinkering with to bring up the bass, other than tubes?
 
Sep 26, 2011 at 11:04 PM Post #2 of 15
You can always change out the BJT's. See "Note 2: Output Transistors" at:
 
   http://www.diamondstar.de/dDB_partslist.html  
 
So, I have to ask based upon your other thread. Did you bias the tubes? I cannot stress how important this is when you swap tubes in the Millet MAX as it is made to work with three different tube variations. Even from set to set, they can vary considerably. Unfortunately, the MAX is not self-biasing. You must set the proper bias to give it a fair shot. The tubes you are dismissing might be getting a bad rap due to an incorrect bias (or not, no guarantees you see).
 
It could very well be the 12fk6 are closest to being properly biased. In my experience, the 12AE6 have the best response overall for an HD650. Especially when properly biased (or even a little "hot" and closer to 14.5V or 15V vice the standard 13.5V).
 
I thought of all the Millet tubes I tried (and I tried a whole bunch), the Tung Sol had the best bass response with a slight tradeoff in the mids and highs. YMMV
 
Sep 26, 2011 at 11:49 PM Post #3 of 15
Code:
Hi Jake, no like a bad boy I didnt bias yet. I was all excited to do that tonight, when someone took out an electric pole on my block and I've been sitting in candlelight for the last four hours. Good thing I charged the iPad. But your right, I won't post any more thoughts or pass judgement until I get it biased.I will seek out some Tung Sol. Thanks again for your help. :)
 
Sep 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM Post #4 of 15
Hey, I did it, JDKjake! I had no idea what I was doing, but it was a piece of cake once I figured out what a trim pot looked like. At first I was trying to figure out how to turn the spot where you read the voltage. I thought it was an all in one contraption! Then I noticed the little blue bits with the screw. Google search and there it was! Piece of cake to adjust using a multimeter. My main voltage was set at 26.47 so I adjusted it to 27 volts. Right? Using a 24 v walwart.  And the left tube was set at 9.45 v and the right at 8.45v! So I set them both at 13.5v each. I must say the sound has warmed up appreciately. I mean it warmed up A LOT. I don't think there's any need to worry about bass boosting now! Thank you so much for the suggestion. I can't wait to roll tube again now that I can bias! But I'm loving the sound now. Smoooooth! 
 
THank you, thank you very much, Jake. You just took this amp from "pretty good" to fantastic! 
 
I'm going to go grab those 12AE6s!
 
Sep 27, 2011 at 9:09 PM Post #5 of 15
Awesome!  
beerchug.gif

 
You are most welcome.
 
Enjoy your amp. I know you will. 
L3000.gif

 
 
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 5:22 AM Post #8 of 15
Okay, I've still been search for a way to "Sweeten" or roll off some of the high frequencies on my Maxed and I stumbled across this info on the Maxed boutique build page:
 
 
Output Resistors
Finally, the output resistors on the MAX, RB14, are another opportunity for boutique parts. Traditionally, these resistors were used to protect from shorts in the output stage. In the case of the Intersil buffer option in the revMH Millett, these were absolutely necessary. In the case of the MAX, however, either BJT or MOSFET output stage is robust enough to tolerate the intermittent shorting that may occur from plugging/ unplugging headphones.
For those wishing the ultimate in power performance and uncolored sound output, the best thing to do is simply jumper the RB14 positions. On the other hand, the RB14 resistors offer two opportunities: 1)to give an additional sort of "gain reduction" where the lower gain 12FK6 tube is not low enough, and 2) use of a boutique resistor can tame some high-end harshness or a slight bit of tube noise.
Several Millett builders have had good expience with Kiwame and Stackpole output resistors. If you are wishing to tame some high-end harshness or tube noise, however, do not use Vishay-Dales. They won't help ... at all.
Resistance values from 10 to 150 ohms may be used. Stick with the low resistances if you are interested in sweetening the high end slightly. Use the higher resistances for gain reduction. You may have to use as much as 100 ohms to start detecting a difference with gain. On the other hand, as low as 10 ohms may remove some harshness, if present. 
 
Could someone recommend to me the best resistor to buy which would give me a nice rolled of treble with maximum effect. Here is a picture of my amp. Currently the RB14 positions have some Dale resistors marked "0738J" I cant find these anywhere on the web. Should I dump these? I wonder what they're doing? And get some Kiwame or Stackpole output resistor. Thanks for your help! Still love my Max to death. Still tweaking!
 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/chadbang/P1100068.jpg
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 7:24 AM Post #9 of 15
Increasing bass on the Millett MAX:
 
In the order of effect on bass, here they are -
1. 12AE6 tubes.  This is the number one thing that you can do to increase the bass slam.  Gain is high on these, though, so you will be restricted in the volume travel - 1/4 to 1/3 turn for full volume with most phones.
 
2. Ensure that CA2, the cathode bypass electrolytics, is at least 1000uf.  The MiniMAX uses Muse ES at 1000uf 16V - this is the best for bass at 25mm height.  It depends on how your MAX has been built and what slot the PCB is in on the Hammond case.  If you have 1-1/2" clearance, which is achieved by placing the PCB in the bottom slot, then you can go with Elna Silmic RFS II's.  DigiKey has them at good prices - 1000uf is key, but voltage can be variable as long as you don't go under 16V.  Again, you can't use Elna's if the PCB is in a higher slot in the case.
 
3. Be careful with the film cap bypasses in this position - CA9.  Wima's are fine here, unless you were lucky enough to get Black Gate NX's.  With Black Gate NX's, you need to leave CA9 blank.  With other caps at CA2 - including the Muse ES - the Wima's (MKP10, 0.22uf) are ideal.  However, other caps - especially boutique ones - at CA9 can actually reduce the bass.  Vitamin Q's or Sonicaps in this position will cut the bass.
 
4. Typically, CA7 has been a Muse ES at 470uf 35V.  This is the standard on the MiniMAX.  It serves quite well for bass even for low impedance Grados, because Grado's bass peaks at 50Hz, not 20Hz.  However, if you have other low impedance phones, you would benefit with more bass by going to 1000uf at those positions.  If you have the extra clearance, go with Elna Silmic RFS II's at 1000uf.  Voltage is critical in these positions, though, and must be 35V minimum.  If you don't have the height and want the extra uf - then go with the Muse Fine Gold.  There is a 1000uf 35V Fine Gold that is only 25mm (it's the same size as the ES at 470uf 35V).  I offer the Fine Gold at 1000uf 35V as an option on the MiniMAX.
 
5. You can increase the bass with higher-rated resistors at RB14, but they will cut the detail as you go higher.  In fact, the bass effect has more to do with lowering the cutoff frequency with lower-impedance headphones or simply rolling off the highs.  A better, bigger capacitor at the CA7 positions is the better alternative, IMHO.
 
6. The film caps that bypass the CA7 position - CA8 - will not affect the bass at this position. Boutiques are fine and we have used Vitamin Q's in the past and use Sonicap Gen II's for the MiniMAX at this position now. The CA8 caps affect treble extension and highs' harshness, so more on them below.
 
 
Increasing Treble on the Millett MAX:
 
In order of effectiveness -
1. The old combination of CCS resistors that most people used in building the MAX was 1K and 10K at RA8 and RA9, respectively.  These were not optimum, but thought to be a good compromise with the availability of typical-size V-D resistors.  However, we have since found out that 1.15K and 11.5K are readily available and we have since made this the standard on the MiniMAX.  In fact, I will send the CCS resistor pairs to you free if you send me your address.  They make that much of a difference: distortion on the tubes is much lower with these resistors at the CCS positions.  This change has the single greatest effect of improving the highs and taming any harshness.
 
2. Ensure that CA7 is an audio-quality, boutique capacitor.  Either the Muse ES at 470uf 35V or the Muse FG (Fine Gold) at 1000uf 35V are your best bets if you have the 1" (25mm) height restriction.  This has the second greatest effect at highs extension and harshness.
 
3. Ensure good quality bypass film caps at CA8.  Boutiques are a good choice, here.  Again, the standard on the MiniMAX used to be Vitamin Q's until their availability ran out.  We currently use Sonicap Gen II's at 0.33uf 200V.  Either is a great choice, but there are many others that you can use.  Wima's have always been used as film bypasses on the Millett Hybrid, but in my opinion - they impart a bit of graininess at this final output positiion.  I would stick with something name-brand, axial, and at a reasonable price.  Auricaps are not too expensive at these sizes - 0.22uf should be a good target, but you can go higher (0.33uf, 0.47uf), but only slightly lower (0.18uf) is recommended.  Just MHO, but I would steer away from the Wima-similar caps such as other box caps like the Wima's - orange drops, Roederstein, etc.  They seem to have no effect at improving the highs or add graininess like the Wima's.  Again, the Wima's are great at all the other positions on the PCB (CA3, CA6, CA9), but this one is most critical to the final sound.  Voltage is not critical with any of these film caps.  All you need is 35V and most film caps are 100V and higher. 
 
4. 12FK6 tubes.  These generally have the best highs, but unlike the 12AE6's with bass slam, it's not as much as the other items above.
 
5. The output resistors will have the final effect on the highs.  They can either outright roll off the highs or add "sweetness."  The Riken resistor is probably the best at this position, but is expensive.  I would stay at 10R unless you're really interested in actually cutting the highs.  Any higher and it really cuts the detail.  10R seems to be the best for tweaking.  The Kiwame's are probably the best and are not too expensive, depending on the source.  Stackpoles are next, but they will tend to roll off more than clean up the harshness (sweeten).  This is not much different than what I originally wrote up there on the website, with the exception of mentioning the Riken's.
 
Good luck! 
 
EDIT: Corrected some things ...
 
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 10:02 AM Post #10 of 15


Quote:
Okay, I've still been search for a way to "Sweeten" or roll off some of the high frequencies on my Maxed and I stumbled across this info on the Maxed boutique build page:
 
 
 
Could someone recommend to me the best resistor to buy which would give me a nice rolled of treble with maximum effect. Here is a picture of my amp. Currently the RB14 positions have some Dale resistors marked "0738J" I cant find these anywhere on the web. Should I dump these? I wonder what they're doing? And get some Kiwame or Stackpole output resistor. Thanks for your help! Still love my Max to death. Still tweaking!
 


Nobody likes to hear it, particularly in this world where buying the right cable cures all of the problems with an absolutely worthless amplifier (not the millet {at all}, just a comment on audiophilia in general) or an even worse headphone, but the key with experimenting with output resistors is getting the right VALUE. Brand and "model" are very insignificant if the value is not "right" for what you want.  
 
0738j is a generic identifier for the resistors. Why not measure them with an ohm-meter? For future reference, best practice is to solder resistors down so that their value can be read quickly by someone looking at the PCB. 
 
No love for my 500ohm pot idea? It is really quite excellent. Even a cheap carbon pot will work nicely. 
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 11:38 AM Post #11 of 15


Quote:
Nobody likes to hear it, particularly in this world where buying the right cable cures all of the problems with an absolutely worthless amplifier (not the millet {at all}, just a comment on audiophilia in general) or an even worse headphone, but the key with experimenting with output resistors is getting the right VALUE. Brand and "model" are very insignificant if the value is not "right" for what you want.  
 
0738j is a generic identifier for the resistors. Why not measure them with an ohm-meter? For future reference, best practice is to solder resistors down so that their value can be read quickly by someone looking at the PCB. 
 
No love for my 500ohm pot idea? It is really quite excellent. Even a cheap carbon pot will work nicely. 


I agree with the right value being most important.  My recommendations up top assume that they're all 10R; then the differences can be distinguished among brands/types.
 
I forgot to identify those output resistors on chadbang's MAX.  Jeff at Glass Jar Audio and several builders used these really fat V-D resistors that were -0- ohm at the RB14 output positions.  I would bet that's exactly what they are.
 
 
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 2:26 PM Post #12 of 15
I love the idea, Nikongod. I spent all day yesterday looking at pots, but I wasn't certain what to get. I know I need a dual linear pot, but I know so little about building I wasn't sure which kind to buy on eBay. And the the question lingered where do I put it into the circuit. If you could point me to a sale on eBay that shows me exactly what to get, I'll grab one to install in case tombs suggestions still don't bring me to the level of roll off I require. Most of my problem stems from low listening levels, which we Ll know is how bass suffers. I have tinnitus, so I listen a low levels, which is why I'm seeking to pull more bass out of the amp -- which otherwise is THE BEST amp I've ever heard.
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 7:11 PM Post #13 of 15
I would lean towards an audio taper pot. It will give you better control in the 0-150ohm range. The 200 to (a lot) range is also nice to try out, but the difference between 200 and 250 ohms is no where near as big as the difference between 27 and 75...
 
Looking around a bit, it seems that it is really hard to find audio taper pots below 1Kohm. 
 
Mouser has both 1Kohm audio and 500ohm linear dual ganged pots :) 
Mouser part numbers:
31VW205-F (500ohm linear)
313-2420F-1K (1Kohm audio)
 
Jan 14, 2012 at 3:02 PM Post #14 of 15
Here we go Nikon, it took some search. Alps dual ganged pots! Which one should I get?
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260903563416
 
Jan 18, 2012 at 12:40 AM Post #15 of 15
I would not use an alps blue for this. They are very nice pots, but they only start at 10Kohms - the impedance is far too high and you will never use 3/4 of the pot. Try to find a dual 1Kohm audio taper pot for experimenting with output impedance.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top