[Deiz]

So, in past I've read Headroom's articles on balanced headphones, but I was recently told that due to dual-XLR3 terminated headphones only using two pins per connector, they're not balanced.

That, and, so he says, recabling the headphones will not make the driver balanced, it will continue to be driven like a normal speaker driver. To further that, he insists that a headphone, driven by a balance signal, would at best be whisper-quiet.

Really, I have no ground to stand on here: I understand the noise rejection method of balanced lines; Does that still function identically when pin 3 is not in use? Are headphones with detachable cables such as the HD650 only balanced up until the point that the cable meets the housing?

Or is he correct, in that headphone drivers are driven like any other speaker driver, and that dual XLR3 terminations merely remove the common ground?

Illumination appreciated.

 

[Dreadhead]

Balanced audio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also balanced headphone amps are balanced. They only use the two hot pins on the signal just not the ground.

 

[moogoob]

Yeah. Instead of separate grounds, each channel's ground(now "-") wire is used for a negative signal to support the other ("+") wire. That's what balanced refers to.

 

[Deiz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moogoob /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah. Instead of separate grounds, each channel's ground(now "-") wire is used for a negative signal to support the other ("+") wire. That's what balanced refers to.

I thought there was a distinction between negative and ground? That is, pin 1 shield/ground, 2 pos, 3 neg.

What's the difference between how a speaker driver is powered and a balanced-drive headphone, then, seeing as each speaker channel has positive and negative leads.

 

[krmathis]

I'm skeptical!

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deiz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought there was a distinction between negative and ground? That is, pin 1 shield/ground, 2 pos, 3 neg. What's the difference between how a speaker driver is powered and a balanced-drive headphone, then, seeing as each speaker channel has positive and negative leads.

They both work exactly the same way, balanced or not (same thing for a transducer). A transducer just reacts to a voltage potential on its terminals.

 

[El_Doug]

i guess some confusion needs to be sorted out

3-pin XLR's do have a pin each for +,-,ground, just as your friend said. And, just as your friend said, only two pins are used per cup. Only 2 pins of each XLR are being used.

However, what is not being used is the GROUND connection! Instead, each driver is being fed the + signal to one side, and the - signal (which is 180-degrees out of phase) to the other side of a given driver. This "push-pull" moves the driver in the same fashion as a "push-only" in a single ended headphone - the single ended having, instead of a negative "pull" signal, a ground instead.

Im not really great at explaining things, but this should make it clear enough - the amp signal, pushing and pulling the driver, thus is exerting more control over said driver. Nothing is lost by ignoring the ground.


This is precisely why you can have fully balanced cans with a single 4-pin xlr connector

Since only 4 pins are truly used, amps such as the Little Dot MK VI simply put the L+,L-,R+,and R- all in one connector. The extra 2 pins in a dual-3-pin setup arent used anyways!

I really wish more amp manufacturers would try to push this single 4-pin connection system, it is really much more convenient than the dual-3pin, and doesnt change anything else at all.

 

[Deiz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif i guess some confusion needs to be sorted out 3-pin XLR's do have a pin each for +,-,ground, just as your friend said. And, just as your friend said, only two pins are used per cup. Only 2 pins of each XLR are being used. However, what is not being used is the GROUND connection! Instead, each driver is being fed the + signal to one side, and the - signal (which is 180-degrees out of phase) to the other side of a given driver. This "push-pull" moves the driver in the same fashion as a "push-only" in a single ended headphone - the single ended having, instead of a negative "pull" signal, a ground instead. Im not really great at explaining things, but this should make it clear enough - the amp signal, pushing and pulling the driver, thus is exerting more control over said driver. Nothing is lost by ignoring the ground. This is precisely why you can have fully balanced cans with a single 4-pin xlr connector Since only 4 pins are truly used, amps such as the Little Dot MK VI simply put the L+,L-,R+,and R- all in one connector. The extra 2 pins in a dual-3-pin setup arent used anyways! I really wish more amp manufacturers would try to push this single 4-pin connection system, it is really much more convenient than the dual-3pin, and doesnt change anything else at all.

Ah, there's my answer! Thanks a lot.

A single 4-pin XLR wouldn't do the job. When I pick up the cables for a pair of XLR3-terminated headphones and the connectors clink together, that is the iconic sound of balanced headphone audio. You can't take that away from me.

Also, Stello sells a weird headphone amp here which uses a Neutrik 1/4" TRS & XLR3 combo jack.. Seeing as there's only one XLR3 it's standard push-only, common ground single-ended, just in a beefy locking connector?

 

[El_Doug]

yeah, that thing looks single-ended... that, or it's balanced mono

those combo jacks suck monkey **** at holding 1/4'' TRS, btw! i use balanced TRS to connect my emu 1212m to my KRK VXT4 monitors, which have combo jacks on them. the left channel constantly fades out and crackles, and i have to fiddle with the 1/4'' connector (which is very loose) to get the signal back. i'm very close to resoldering XLR connectors onto my TRS cables, just so the connection is secure.



...what you call a "charming clink," i call an "annoying noise that also means two awkward connectors instead of one simple one, which also makes it hard to pack the cables in a headphone box"

 

[smuh]

Haha, thanks Doug, I think that's what I am going for next... balanced mono phones and I am sure if I mention that a few more times the first amps will show up as being "soon to be released"

 

[Audio-Omega]

I will have to go balanced one day, just to see if it's better than single ended.

 

[yotacowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio-Omega /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will have to go balanced one day, just to see if it's better than single ended.

Why bother? it doesn't make a bit of difference over 3 feet of cable.

 

[grawk]

Why bother? Because the benefit isn't noise control, it's speaker control.

 

[Lil' Knight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotacowboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why bother? it doesn't make a bit of difference over 3 feet of cable.

I laughed a lot.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio-Omega /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will have to go balanced one day, just to see if it's better than single ended.

Its well worth it imo.
All my headphones are balanced, and I have not intensions of dropping out.