AVSforum: Is High-Resolution Audio Irrelevant?
May 1, 2014 at 10:06 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 60

wnmnkh

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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1529833/is-high-resolution-audio-irrelevant
 
 
Very balanced article, as expected from none other than Scott Wilkinson.
 
 
 
My take is, before any discussions regarding audibility, we need better mastering and proper 24-bit capable devices including microphone, mixers and all other involved devices during the recording. But with Pono's stance of 'not asking for remastering', I guess it will be just a pipe dream after all.
 
May 1, 2014 at 10:28 PM Post #2 of 60
No recorded music on earth requires more than 50-60dB dynamic range to reproduce. No human ears can hear beyond 20kHz. There is absolutely no point to higher bit rates or sampling rates for listening to music in the home.
 
There are studies that prove that although loud volume super audible frequencies can be perceived as sound pressure (read pain at high levels!), it adds absolutely nothing to sound quality in music.
 
The claim that an orchestra requires 130dB is bogus too. Subtract the average noise floor of the concert hall, and the dynamics lost from sitting in the audience instead of right in front of the percussion section and you'll top out about 55-60dB.
 
The only thing that goes up to 140dB is very loud amplified rock concerts, and those often cause hearing damage. They also have massive room noise, so the whole bottom end of the dynamic spectrum is noise, making the effective dynamic range very narrow.
 
May 5, 2014 at 5:33 PM Post #3 of 60
One thing that didn't seem to be mentioned is that there are very few microphones that respond well (if at all) past 20kHz.
 
May 5, 2014 at 7:47 PM Post #4 of 60
Here is a modern digital recording of Bach... the first half is the full spectrum response. The second half has everything below 12kHz filtered out. What do you hear? It's an Apple Lossless file.
 
http://www.vintageip.com/test/freqresponsetest.m4a
 
May 6, 2014 at 12:57 AM Post #5 of 60
  Here is a modern digital recording of Bach... the first half is the full spectrum response. The second half has everything below 12kHz filtered out. What do you hear? It's an Apple Lossless file.
 
http://www.vintageip.com/test/freqresponsetest.m4a

Argh, link not working for me.
 
*Now it works but it seems the file is damaged.
 
May 6, 2014 at 1:25 AM Post #6 of 60
I downloaded it and it works. Try opening it in iTunes.
 
May 6, 2014 at 1:53 AM Post #8 of 60
My computer seemed to believe it was an mp3 file, but after I told it otherwise it played without issue.

You seem to have bitten off a bit more than what you intended there, everything below 15kHz looks to be gone.
A sharp high pass filter would offer a lot more precision than a graphic EQ.
And maybe use a music sample with a bit more high frequency content.


 
May 6, 2014 at 5:59 AM Post #10 of 60
  Running a linux machine, all I get from the link is "this file is corrupt".  So sorry.

Right click on the link and click save as
 
May 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM Post #11 of 60
  Here is a modern digital recording of Bach... the first half is the full spectrum response. The second half has everything below 12kHz filtered out. What do you hear? It's an Apple Lossless file.
 
http://www.vintageip.com/test/freqresponsetest.m4a

The filter you applied attenuated everything below ~16kHz or so, and pretty much completely eliminated everything below 14, which is going to significantly reduce audibility compared to a true 12kHz cut. Here's your file redone so that the cutoff is a very sharp 12kHz cut instead of the rolloff you applied:
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40020825/freqresponsetest.flac
 
May 6, 2014 at 2:22 PM Post #12 of 60
same same
 
Dec 30, 2014 at 1:58 PM Post #13 of 60
Like most audiophiles, I dream of finding ways to improve the quality of my music reproduction. It is tempting to believe that upgrading to a higher resolution format such as 24/192 will miraculously boost the quality. The only problem is, IT WON'T.
 
16/44 resolution may not be ideal (i.e. it may be possible, just, to hear the benefit of more resolution in the dynamic range). I suspect that 18/44 would be a better limit (4 times CD resolution) but 24/192 is surely over the top and a waste of hard disk space, at over 1,000 times CD resolution and around 6 times the file size. Equipment used to make the recording simply doesn't have 144dB of dynamic range, or record 95kHz frequencies. For various technical reasons, it does help to use extra resolution in the recording/mixing/mastering process, to reduce various artefacts, but not for the final medium. So I could support a mild step up from CD, e.g. 20-bit, 88kHz, just for peace of mind that the format is beyond the capability of human hearing but anything beyond that is plain silly. The DVD-A format of 24/96 seems to be the closest supported format up from 16/44 so perhaps we are stuck with that. I suspect it is much easier for marketing purposes to push a medium with more impressive numbers, even if it's all emperor's new clothes. No-one wants to upgrade the CD format to 18/44 - it lacks the wow factor.
 
But enough of numbers, there is a MUCH larger issue - the quality of the recordings themselves. I'm sure many of you have had an experience of listening to an audiophile CD on a very high end system (possibly $50K+) and been gobsmacked by the utter realism and natural sound. Yes, it's a beautiful thing and we all wish our music would sound like that, which I believe is why many people get sucked into HR audio formats. However, the fact that CD can sound so good just proves that the format itself is capable of greatness. The reason your home listening experience isn't as good is not because of the digital format, but the execution at every stage of the recording and reproduction process, from the choice of microphone in the studio all the way to your speakers and room response and background noise. There are so many sources of quality loss, and your sound will only be as good as the weakest link in the chain. And that weakest link is certainly NOT the 16/44 format! Until recording engineers lift their game and produce albums which sound as stunning as some audiophile releases, or until you upgrade your system or change your listening room to a completely silent one with perfect echoic response, then we are all just chasing a dream. Sad but true.
 
p.s. oh, and next time you hear someone tell you something like using one USB cable to their DAC over another cable gives them "more bass" or a "wider soundstage", PLEASE smack them in the face with a wet fish. Repeatedly. :) This kind of ignorance and misinformation isn't helping to solve the genuine issues which music lovers and audiophiles face.
 
Dec 30, 2014 at 10:29 PM Post #14 of 60
I don't see much campaign, push or pressure to improve mastering/music production. Instead endless, unneccessary and time-wasting debate is given to file formats.
 
Dec 30, 2014 at 10:32 PM Post #15 of 60
  I don't see much campaign, push or pressure to improve mastering/music production. Instead endless, unneccessary and time-wasting debate is given to file formats.

 
Exactly. If we want things to get better, it has to start in the recording studios.
 

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