[Arjestin]

Hey,

I'm looking to upgrade from AUDIO-GD NFB-11.28 to a balanced DAC/Amp.
The two options I'm considering are:
A) AUDIO-GD NFB-28.38
B) AUDIO-GD NFB-1.38 and NFB-1AMP

AFAIK (Please correct me if I got these wrong):
- Both NFB-28.38 and NFB-1.38 are based on the Sabre ES9038Pro DAC chip.
- Both NFB-28.38 and NFB-1AMP have balanced outputs.
- The NFB-28.38 sells for about $880, whereas NFB-1.38 + NFB-1AMP are $750+$485=$1235.

So, what are the benefits of option B?

 

[Arjestin]

Bump

 

[phthora]

Hey,

I'm looking to upgrade from AUDIO-GD NFB-11.28 to a balanced DAC/Amp.
The two options I'm considering are:
A) AUDIO-GD NFB-28.38
B) AUDIO-GD NFB-1.38 and NFB-1AMP

AFAIK (Please correct me if I got these wrong):
- Both NFB-28.38 and NFB-1.38 are based on the Sabre ES9038Pro DAC chip.
- Both NFB-28.38 and NFB-1AMP have balanced outputs.
- The NFB-28.38 sells for about $880, whereas NFB-1.38 + NFB-1AMP are $750+$485=$1235.

So, what are the benefits of option B?

I posted the following info in the NFB-28 thread, but I'll paraphrase is again here. Here's my OP:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-nfb-28.676930/page-126#post-14039635

I emailed with Kingwa himself about this prior to buying my own Audio-gd solution. His direct words to me were: "Kingwa wrote: "NFB1.38 + NFB1AMP is better a little, for example they can sound better 10% but price increase 40%." The "10%" improvement is likely due to the separate power supplies for the DAC and amp, something that the combo unit would not have, and, according to Kingwa, benefits from upgrading interconnects. The other big advantage of getting the DAC and amp separate is that you could replace one later with ease and you could swap in different DACs or amps in your audio chain a bit easier.

The disadvantage, of course, is the price. The base price increase is one thing, but keep in mind that you would need to buy interconnects, pay for shipping twice, and pay more in PayPal fees. If you choose, like I did, to upgrade the power cable or other components, you will have to pay for those twice. That cost adds up quickly.

In the end, I chose the all-in-one 28.38 and have not been disappointed in the least. With fees and shipping, it came out to $958, after PP fees, shipping, USB isolate upgrade, and a 5% discount for Chinese New Year.

 

[Arjestin]

I posted the following info in the NFB-28 thread, but I'll paraphrase is again here. Here's my OP:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-nfb-28.676930/page-126#post-14039635

I emailed with Kingwa himself about this prior to buying my own Audio-gd solution. His direct words to me were: "Kingwa wrote: "NFB1.38 + NFB1AMP is better a little, for example they can sound better 10% but price increase 40%." The "10%" improvement is likely due to the separate power supplies for the DAC and amp, something that the combo unit would not have, and, according to Kingwa, benefits from upgrading interconnects. The other big advantage of getting the DAC and amp separate is that you could replace one later with ease and you could swap in different DACs or amps in your audio chain a bit easier.

The disadvantage, of course, is the price. The base price increase is one thing, but keep in mind that you would need to buy interconnects, pay for shipping twice, and pay more in PayPal fees. If you choose, like I did, to upgrade the power cable or other components, you will have to pay for those twice. That cost adds up quickly.

In the end, I chose the all-in-one 28.38 and have not been disappointed in the least. With fees and shipping, it came out to $958, after PP fees, shipping, USB isolate upgrade, and a 5% discount for Chinese New Year.

Thank you!

I was talking with Kingwa about R2R-1 DAC with NFB-1 AMP.
He says that R2R ladder DAC has "smoother, more like real sound" than NFB-1.38.
But after reading your impressions of NFB-28.38, I see that it is obviously the more prudent and straight-forward upgrade.

Have you considered an R2R DAC before buying the NFB-28.38?
Why did you choose a SABRE-based DAC instead?

 

[phthora]

Thank you!

I was talking with Kingwa about R2R-1 DAC with NFB-1 AMP.
He says that R2R ladder DAC has "smoother, more like real sound" than NFB-1.38.
But after reading your impressions of NFB-28.38, I see that it is obviously the more prudent and straight-forward upgrade.

Have you considered an R2R DAC before buying the NFB-28.38?
Why did you choose a SABRE-based DAC instead?

I looked into an R2R DAC before buying the 28.38, but I ultimately decided against it for a couple of reasons.

The best case scenario for an R2R DAC is that it will have worse DNR, SNR, THD+N, channel balance, crosstalk, and less resolution than a comparable delta-sigma DAC. Audio-gd's own measurements confirm this. IMO, the DAC is the one link in the audio chain where measurements really should be heeded above all else. The worst case scenario is that an R2R loses audio information through compression and has significantly higher noise. For example, the Schiit Bifrost Multibit can only achieve 10 bits of resolution! https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...d-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/ That's just awful. The reason is that R2R's rely on having very narrow tolerances in their components, and the higher the resolution, the tighter those tolerances have to be. For older or inexpensive R2Rs, this invariably results in compression, since those extremely high tolerances are impossible or very costly. Audio-gd and others have workarounds to correct this by applying an additional level of processing. Audio-gd uses FPGA. Assuming that helps get around compression, the R2R still measures worse in all the above categories.

The smoother sound an R2R provides is pleasant, but I miss the detail and clarity. Plus, if that sound is something that appeals to you, it is always possible to get a tube amp or even tube buffer to recreate that sort of sound with a very clean delta-sigma DAC. On the other hand, nothing exists to increase the resolution and decrease the noise of an R2R. You can always add more distortion to the chain, but you can't remove it. I am actually not opposed to that smooth sound, I just don't want to commit to it.

On the note of the Sabre chip itself: the 28.38 had none of that "Sabre glare" that people used to complain about in the treble. The treble is present, detailed, and clear, but it doesn't ever get harsh. The low-end is impactful and full, but everything remains neutral. Soundstage and imaging are excellent, as well.

 

[dbdecoteau]

Excellent analysis. I just received my 28.38 yesterday and am currently pairing it with hd650’s. Looking to upgrade to Beyerdynamic dt 1990 pro’s.