[paradoxper]

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And easily chipped paint to give it a character? 

Easily chipped paint v easily cracked wood. It's a draw.

 

[hiyu64]

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Another question: Speaking strictly measurements - is Stax 009/007 better than LCD2/3?

 
I've yet to hear Electrostats, but would love to hear them in the future.
 
check this thread out from someone with much more experience than I.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-57-headphones-compared-update-hifiman-he-400-added-12-24-12
 
If you look at his list you can see that those headphones are all top 10, but the Electrostats are in a league slightly above.
They are also much more expensive.  Of the top in order of sound quality 3 are Electrostats

 

[Boerd]

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I've yet to hear Electrostats, but would love to hear them in the future.
 
check this thread out from someone with much more experience than I.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-57-headphones-compared-update-hifiman-he-400-added-12-24-12
 
If you look at his list you can see that those headphones are all top 10, but the Electrostats are in a league slightly above.
They are also much more expensive.  Of the top in order of sound quality 3 are Electrostats

That article is a lot of poetry - which is great -  what I really care for are measurements.
Measurements, measurements, measurements. Yes - I know, I sound like a broken record.
I am just curious if Stax 009/007 measure above the LCD2/3. I've seen some measurements on innerfidelity.com
but I think it's hard to say which one is better (???).
I'd love to find out opinions on this subject.

 

[hiyu64]

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That article is a lot of poetry - which is great -  what I really care for are measurements.
Measurements, measurements, measurements. Yes - I know, I sound like a broken record.
I am just curious if Stax 009/007 measure above the LCD2/3. I've seen some measurements on innerfidelity.com
but I think it's hard to say which one is better (???).
I'd love to find out opinions on this subject.

Yea, it is a lot of writing.  But being completely objective is bad too because headphones are used to reproduce music and the subjective experience needs to be factored in as well.  That's why I'm trying to learn as much about objective measurements while also learning more about headphones subjectively by listening to more headphones. 
 
check out this sekrit club as well 
offers FR graphs but CSD waterfall plots as well, which are basically FR graphs but includes a time domain where you watch the decay of the FR
over time.  I don't completely understand CSDs yet because it hasn't been long since I really started my audiophile journey(several months now?), but they're suppose to give even more information regarding the sonic signature of a headphone.
 
I think the pinnacle of the audiophile journey is to be able connect objective measurements and subjective descriptors of headphones.  Like if a headphone's FR/CSD show this type of peak/ridge/trough/shape/decay then it will most likely have the following subjective sonic characteristics.  It's a long journey, but I'm excited
 
Also, I just grabbed my $40 DELL speakers with subwoofers from the attic and listened to them.....wow they don't sound half bad

I might have to move to speaker fi sooner than I imagined....
 
Edit: A funny thing I just thought of.  What if you had an ultimate program that can Equalize the FR of a $70 Grado SR60(not good by objective measurements) to have the FR of a $999 LCD2.2?  Would those $70 Grado SR60s now be worth $999?
No, It really shouldn't if you factor in square wave response, csd decay, as well as just the size of the diaphragm and what its limitations are. 
But who knows, some people might get fooled.

 

[Boerd]

Thanks.
I am coming from the other side - first I spent on speakers then I realized I spend more time at the office. Go figure - now I am into the headphones (2+ years).

 

[wje]

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Edit: A funny thing I just thought of.  What if you had an ultimate program that can Equalize the FR of a $70 Grado SR60(not good by objective measurements) to have the FR of a $999 LCD2.2?  Would those $70 Grado SR60s now be worth $999?
No, It really shouldn't if you factor in square wave response, csd decay, as well as just the size of the diaphragm and what its limitations are. 
But who knows, some people might get fooled.

 
This is what gets me when people start to compare the $299 Mad Dogs or the $399 HIfiMAN HE-400s to the Audeze LCD-2.  Can't we just let the Mad Dogs and the HE-400s stand on their own merit?  I think the comparison mis-leads many members here who are on the fence with their purchase.  When they see that they can get $999 worth of sound for $299 or $399, they think they are getting a real bargain.  This, to me is mis-leading.  The Mad Dogs and the HE-400s are what they are - unique headphones in their own right.
 
Now, with regards to the Audeze LCD-2 and the varying degree of charts and differences in responses - if and I do mean IF I had $999 to put towards the LCD-2 from Audeze, I would.  After all, it is the headphones that I want to hear and not the charts.  After a while, we look at so many charts, we start to get "analysis paralysis" and we can't make a final decision to select something and go forward with the purchase.

 

[Boerd]

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...After a while, we look at so many charts, we start to get "analysis paralysis" and we can't make a final decision to select something and go forward with the purchase.

 
That was me 2 weeks ago

Now I get headaches - literally.
I have no clue what to do T1/Hd800/LCD2/3?
The only one I tried is the HD 800 - very, very fine sound. Plastic looks (I might be able to live with it though).
But LCD2 bamboo (engineered wood is harder) sounds more and more like "it"

 

[paradoxper]

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This is what gets me when people start to compare the $299 Mad Dogs or the $399 HIfiMAN HE-400s to the Audeze LCD-2.  Can't we just let the Mad Dogs and the HE-400s stand on their own merit?  I think the comparison mis-leads many members here who are on the fence with their purchase.  When they see that they can get $999 worth of sound for $299 or $399, they think they are getting a real bargain.  This, to me is mis-leading.  The Mad Dogs and the HE-400s are what they are - unique headphones in their own right.
 

I think for the MD there are few who draw comparisons to the LCD-2's to be fair. And I also do think most hold the MD in their own right.
However there are a few (including myself) who have had the experience of "higher end" cans, and so it's a simple matter of
sharing one's opinion about what an accomplishment the MD is.
 
If one expresses their opinion of the MD being more enjoyable than the LCD-2, then it's other people's problems if that's misinterpreted as
the MD has x quality that's better than the LCD-2's.
 
It also hurts for one to lay down blanket statements without first laying down context.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

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If one expresses their opinion of the MD being more enjoyable than the LCD-2, then it's other people's problems if that's misinterpreted as
the MD has x quality that's better than the LCD-2's.
 

I'd be very interested to hear what MD offers that is more enjoyable than LCD-2.2, seriously.
They measure very close, the timbre and signature is extremely close with MD overall being just a shadow of a bigger brother.
You mean someone finds lesser details, congested soundstage, lack of air, lesser overall refinement, and muddier in comparison presentation more enjoyable? The only reason I'd personally reach for MD over LCD is the isolation.
I can see that some might not see that worth 3x the price because it's not 3 times better, but this is not how it works in hi-fi business.
 
BTW, speaking of the best bang for the bucks, HD650 will move you much closer to LCD-2 w/o spending 1K than MD.

 

[paradoxper]

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I'd be very interested to hear what MD offers that is more enjoyable than LCD-2.2, seriously.
They measure very close, the timbre and signature is extremely close with MD overall being just a shadow of a bigger brother.
You mean someone finds lesser details, congested soundstage, lack of air, lesser overall refinement, and muddier in comparison presentation more enjoyable? The only reason I'd personally reach for MD over LCD is the isolation.
I can see that some might not see that worth 3x the price because it's not 3 times better but this is how it works in hi-fi business.
BTW, speaking of the best bang for the bucks, HD650 will move you much closer to LCD-2 w/o spending 1K than MD.

I've already shared my opinion of the MD numerous times. And enjoyable doesn't equate to which has the best SQ.
There are other factors to consider.
 
When I compare the LCD-2/3, HE-6 and HD800. Personally, I'd include the MD because of what it does for me.
 
 
"I can see that some might not see that worth 3x the price because it's not 3 times better but this is how it works in hi-fi business."
 
I'm well aware of how things work, I've owned every 'top' can this side of Stat. My point was never to look at what a value the MD is,
my point has always been to share how good I feel the MD is.
 
 
 
If you disagree, cool. Doesn't change my subjective findings.

 

[wje]

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I'd be very interested to hear what MD offers that is more enjoyable than LCD-2.2, seriously.
They measure very close, the timbre and signature is extremely close with MD overall being just a shadow of a bigger brother.
You mean someone finds lesser details, congested soundstage, lack of air, lesser overall refinement, and muddier in comparison presentation more enjoyable? The only reason I'd personally reach for MD over LCD is the isolation.
I can see that some might not see that worth 3x the price because it's not 3 times better, but this is not how it works in hi-fi business.
 
BTW, speaking of the best bang for the bucks, HD650 will move you much closer to LCD-2 w/o spending 1K than MD.

 
I think that Paradoxper can have a right to his opinion.  However, the last headphone meet that I attended, a form member had a semi-new pair of Mad Dogs.  At the start of the meet, he liked what he had.  By the end of the meet, he had made the decision to sell them and move to the HE-500 from HifiMAN.  The following day, the Mad Dogs were on the F/S section.
 
I've heard about 8 variations of the T50RP modification to include the Mad Dogs and the Paradox.  I think that there is somewhat of a level of over-hype going on around here, just as it is with any other headphone that someone owns.  They will always push what they own because it's what they like and it also confirms or justifies their ownership.  I try awfully hard to remain objective and not come across as a fanboi of any particular item.  I can express some pointers or observations based on my setup and my own hearing - which might be quite a bit different than the next member.  But, over time here, I've learned to be more objective (or, polite?) with my discussions of headphones that I may own or have owned in the past.  I also don't like to post comments base on speculation because if it's a pair of headphones that I haven't heard, there's no use in me making up a few sentences to appear to know what I'm talking about.
 
I think a lot of hype gets pushed because of affordability.  It creates excitement, but doesn't put too much of a hurt on someone's wallet.

 

[Boerd]

Probably I should not mention it here but zebra wood (zebrano) is an endangered specie now. Fudge!
Bamboo OTOH - no problem! Plus - is harder, probably better suited for the job anyway.

 

[jerg]

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Probably I should not mention it here but zebra wood (zebrano) is an endangered specie now. Fudge!
Bamboo OTOH - no problem! Plus - is harder, probably better suited for the job anyway.

That's only gonna make LCD3's sell harder haha. Greedy audiophiles will recognize that the zebrawood exclusivity is even higher than expected.
 
Unless of course only wild zebrano is endangered, and there are tree farms from which Audeze commissions the wood from.

 

[preproman]

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I think that Paradoxper can have a right to his opinion.  However, the last headphone meet that I attended, a form member had a semi-new pair of Mad Dogs.  At the start of the meet, he liked what he had.  By the end of the meet, he had made the decision to sell them and move to the HE-500 from HifiMAN.  The following day, the Mad Dogs were on the F/S section.
 
I've heard about 8 variations of the T50RP modification to include the Mad Dogs and the Paradox.  I think that there is somewhat of a level of over-hype going on around here, just as it is with any other headphone that someone owns.  They will always push what they own because it's what they like and it also confirms or justifies their ownership.  I try awfully hard to remain objective and not come across as a fanboi of any particular item.  I can express some pointers or observations based on my setup and my own hearing - which might be quite a bit different than the next member.  But, over time here, I've learned to be more objective (or, polite?) with my discussions of headphones that I may own or have owned in the past.  I also don't like to post comments base on speculation because if it's a pair of headphones that I haven't heard, there's no use in me making up a few sentences to appear to know what I'm talking about.
 
I think a lot of hype gets pushed because of affordability.  It creates excitement, but doesn't put too much of a hurt on someone's wallet.

 
Unmodified = Not worth listening to.

 
No but seriously.  Like Wayne I've had a few different pairs of modded T50RPs as well.  I only compared them to each other.  However, if someone was on a tight budget I would recommend the Mad Dogs in a heart beat.  Saying that.  If $$ was not an object I wouldn't recommend a modded T50RP at all.
 
While I did enjoy the Mad Dog and the BMF more than I did the Paradox.  I still feel all of them are overly hyped and has a place in the headphone food chain and that place is not up there with the TOL headphones IMO.
 
I just got a pair of the AKG K702/65th anvs.  They will kill each modded T50RP head to head - again IMO..  I've had my time with those mods. It was fun, but they left so much to be desired.  Hell, now I don't even enjoy the LCD-2.2s as much as I did before.  The LCD-3s has taken it's place two fold.  

 

[jerg]

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Unmodified = Not worth listening to.

 
No but seriously.  Like Wayne I've had a few different pairs of modded T50RPs as well.  I only compared them to each other.  However, if someone was on a tight budget I would recommend the Mad Dogs in a heart beat.  Saying that.  If $$ was not an object I wouldn't recommend a modded T50RP at all.
 
While I did enjoy the Mad Dog and the BMF more than I did the Paradox.  I still feel all of them are overly hyped and has a place in the headphone food chain and that place is not up there with the TOL headphones IMO.
 
I just got a pair of the AKG K702/65th anvs.  They will kill each modded T50RP head to head - again IMO..  I've had my time with those mods. It was fun, but they left so much to desired.  Hell, now I don't even enjoy the LCD-2.2s as much as I did before.  The LCD-3s has taken it's place two fold.  

All that's left is to mod the high-end cans, really. I've been advocating that all along.