[mlxx]

You still want an amp with the least output impedance as possible to make the most efficient use of its power, for low impedance planar headphones (20-50 Ohms). So for solid state amps, the best ones are <1 Ohm, with tube amps this gets harder to achieve due to coils etc in the tubes, most OTL amps are no go for planars. If you have a high amp impedance (say >100 Ohms), power is wasted in its output impedance and goes up in heat when paired with a low impedance headphone. The LCD3/4 at 110 Ohms plays a little better with a larger variety amps (works with some tube amps) but it still depends at which impedance the amp is able to supply its power, so need to always check check the amp's specs for the headphone being used. Generally speaking, amps with a high output impedance won't be able to supply enough power to a low impedance without a lot if it getting wasted as heat, so although a low or high output impedance may sound the same for a planar, the low output impedance amp will be able to supply more power, all other thing being the same.

 

[prismstorm]

  Well, pleasant surprise - I am going to be able to borrow an LCD-4 for at least a weekend very soon. To the person wondering about Mojo with LCD-4 - I will be able to give you an idea about that soon as I have the Mojo.

Eagerly awaiting your report / impressions of whether the Mojo can drive the LCD-4 

 

[NZtechfreak]

  Eagerly awaiting your report / impressions of whether the Mojo can drive the LCD-4 

 
Certainly. Rob Watts mentioned in the Mojo thread that it does 400mW into 50ohm and has the same current output as the Hugo, so I would think it will do OK with the LCD-4 given its sensitivity rating, however my experience with most planars has been that they like 1W+ so we'll see. I will compare it against my desktop rig, with the monoblocks there putting out 4W of pure class A per channel.

 

[goldendarko]

Hey guys, since we are talking about power, just wondering if anyone who has the HE1000 & LCD-4 can tell me how similar they are in terms of power requirements. Just a simple, volume knob at 12 o'clock on the HE1000 vs. 11 o'clock on the LCD-4, for example would help me out. I'm trying to determine how similar they are in terms of power requirement to see if I could use them on the Studio Six on the same time. Thanks!

 

[Jalo]

Has anyone compare between SE to Balance out on the LCD4?

 

[RandomForest]

Has anyone compare between SE to Balance out on the LCD4?

I have tried both balanced and SE with my LCD4s on HA-1. I got the Audeze premium cables both SE and balanced to compare exactly this. Going from SE to balanced had the expected  doubling of volume but I did not notice any significant change. That said, I prefer to use the balanced mode and the 'High' setting of HA-1, as it give that extra headroom if I had to crank up the volume. I rarely  go past 12 o' clock position though.

 

[prismstorm]

 
I have tried both balanced and SE with my LCD4s on HA-1. I got the Audeze premium cables both SE and balanced to compare exactly this. Going from SE to balanced had the expected  doubling of volume but I did not notice any significant change. That said, I prefer to use the balanced mode and the 'High' setting of HA-1, as it give that extra headroom if I had to crank up the volume. I rarely  go past 12 o' clock position though.

Did you have to pay extra for the 'other' premium cable? From my understanding you may only pick one premium cable either in SE or balanced and that's it. Is it possible to just use an adapter (e.g. XLR to 1/4 jack if you ordered the premium balanced cable to use with SE outputs)? 

 

[NZtechfreak]

Did you have to pay extra for the 'other' premium cable? From my understanding you may only pick one premium cable either in SE or balanced and that's it. Is it possible to just use an adapter (e.g. XLR to 1/4 jack if you ordered the premium balanced cable to use with SE outputs)? 

Absolutely you can use an adapter like that. I have various adapters from 4-pin XLR - SE 6.5, SE 3.5, 2x 3-pin XLR, 3.5mm TRRS...

 

[RandomForest]

  Did you have to pay extra for the 'other' premium cable? From my understanding you may only pick one premium cable either in SE or balanced and that's it. Is it possible to just use an adapter (e.g. XLR to 1/4 jack if you ordered the premium balanced cable to use with SE outputs)? 

It is a little more complicated than that. Yes you can use an adapter and I already have an adapter. Yes, I paid extra for the cable (some phone calls and email exchanges with the good folks at Audeze), and I was allowed to ship everything back including the two cables if I decided not to keep the LCD4s. The HA-1 has both balanced and SE input and I thought having the SE would come in handy and also if I decided to keep the the LCD-4 I was going to upgrade the amp (have preordered the King which comes SE only). I hated the idea of having to always use the adapter if I decide to go SE and I was not sure if I could get them later (I do not see them in their store now). And if I decided to keep LCD4, the Balanced cable will be going back.

 

[Articnoise]

  You still want an amp with the least output impedance as possible to make the most efficient use of its power, for low impedance planar headphones (20-50 Ohms). So for solid state amps, the best ones are <1 Ohm, with tube amps this gets harder to achieve due to coils etc in the tubes, most OTL amps are no go for planars. If you have a high amp impedance (say >100 Ohms), power is wasted in its output impedance and goes up in heat when paired with a low impedance headphone. The LCD3/4 at 110 Ohms plays a little better with a larger variety amps (works with some tube amps) but it still depends at which impedance the amp is able to supply its power, so need to always check check the amp's specs for the headphone being used. Generally speaking, amps with a high output impedance won't be able to supply enough power to a low impedance without a lot if it getting wasted as heat, so although a low or high output impedance may sound the same for a planar, the low output impedance amp will be able to supply more power, all other thing being the same.

 

I agree low impedance planar and high Ohm amps (OTL etc) is not the best paring. 

 

[MacedonianHero]

  You still want an amp with the least output impedance as possible to make the most efficient use of its power, for low impedance planar headphones (20-50 Ohms). So for solid state amps, the best ones are <1 Ohm, with tube amps this gets harder to achieve due to coils etc in the tubes, most OTL amps are no go for planars. If you have a high amp impedance (say >100 Ohms), power is wasted in its output impedance and goes up in heat when paired with a low impedance headphone. The LCD3/4 at 110 Ohms plays a little better with a larger variety amps (works with some tube amps) but it still depends at which impedance the amp is able to supply its power, so need to always check check the amp's specs for the headphone being used. Generally speaking, amps with a high output impedance won't be able to supply enough power to a low impedance without a lot if it getting wasted as heat, so although a low or high output impedance may sound the same for a planar, the low output impedance amp will be able to supply more power, all other thing being the same.

 
 

   

I agree low impedance planar and high Ohm amps (OTL etc) is not the best paring. 

 
Guys: Here is an excellent explanation why orthos aren't nearly as dependent on damping facts as traditional headphones. Kevin did a great job explaining why:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/453116/audeze-lcd-2-orthos/2505#post_6777357
 
FWIW, the Woo WA2 + LCD-2 was actually quite good...and better than many <1 ohm output impedance amps I tried when I owned them.

 

[jodgey4]

We don't allow facts on Head-Fi, silly!

 

[mlxx]

 
Guys: Here is an excellent explanation why orthos aren't nearly as dependent on damping facts as traditional headphones. Kevin did a great job explaining why:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/453116/audeze-lcd-2-orthos/2505#post_6777357
 
FWIW, the Woo WA2 + LCD-2 was actually quite good...and better than many <1 ohm output impedance amps I tried when I owned them.

 
That has more to do with the WA2 just being a better amp than their relative output impedance. Also the WA2 has an output impedance of 70 Ohms (http://www.head-fi.org/t/402215/the-woo-audio-2/645#post_8634197), not regarded as very high, and the LCD2 also has an output impedance of 70 Ohms. Try an amp that has an output impedance of 1000 Ohms and see how you go.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_transfer_theorem
If the resistance of the load is made larger than the resistance of the source, then efficiency is higher, since a higher percentage of the source power is transferred to the load, but the magnitude of the load power is lower since the total circuit resistance goes up. If the load resistance is smaller than the source resistance, then most of the power ends up being dissipated in the source, and although the total power dissipated is higher, due to a lower total resistance, it turns out that the amount dissipated in the load is reduced.
 
Yeah, we get the damping factor thing but that is not the whole story, there comes a point where your amp will be working better as a heater than it will be as an amp.

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
That has more to do with the WA2 just being a better amp than their relative output impedance. Also the WA2 has an output impedance of 70 Ohms (http://www.head-fi.org/t/402215/the-woo-audio-2/645#post_8634197), not regarded as very high, and the LCD2 also has an output impedance of 70 Ohms. Try an amp that has an output impedance of 1000 Ohms and see how you go.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_transfer_theorem
If the resistance of the load is made larger than the resistance of the source, then efficiency is higher, since a higher percentage of the source power is transferred to the load, but the magnitude of the load power is lower since the total circuit resistance goes up. If the load resistance is smaller than the source resistance, then most of the power ends up being dissipated in the source, and although the total power dissipated is higher, due to a lower total resistance, it turns out that the amount dissipated in the load is reduced.
 
Yeah, we get the damping factor thing but that is not the whole story, there comes a point where your amp will be working better as a heater than it will be as an amp.

 
Again, I never said that was the whole story, just something you don't need to be overly concerned with as per the link I provided. The LCD-4s are more power hungry than their previous offerings and I also did mention that it was about the entire audio chain (headphones, amp, dac, source, etc...). But the post by Kevin (kwkarth) was a brilliant explanation of why damping factor isn't as important with planars as it is with traditional dynamic headphones. BTW, there are no amps with an output impedance of 1000 ohms. 

  
 
I did try the Beyerdynamics A 2 with the LCD-4s and LCD-Xs in both 0 ohm and 100 ohm output impedance modes and basically I heard no differences. But with the T1s or HD800s, the 100 ohm output impedance was definitely preferential. Again, I'm NOT saying throw any OTL amp at these headphones, but that it's not as important as with traditional headphones.

 

[MacedonianHero]

  We don't allow facts on Head-Fi, silly!

 
Lol...sorry about that.