[vrln]

 
Quote:

One thing's for sure, I've plugged my good share of vintage orthos on the ONE...if you don't get serious deep bass, you can only blame your phone....this thing will get you all the bass your phone could possibly provide. LME49600 floods them w/ current as it would appear 

 
Waste of time and money, really. AD797B or LME49990 = done. I hated the latter in one of my previous DAC's but opamps are highly design dependent..maybe they'll give the goods off the ONE, the whole internet cannot be wrong. Some ppl are selling presoldered modules on ebay for a good price too if you're not really DIY savvy 

Agreed, this pumps all the bass the headphone used can manage. I wonder if anyone has tried this with the LCD-2 yet, heh... Did some more testing against the Hegel and while the bass on that somehow has more PRAT, it actually hits harder on the E1.
 
Been trying to find presoldered modules of those on Ebay, no luck so far though. Single opamps are easy to find, and the dual-to-dip8 modules too though.
 

 

[Seeing Red]

I'm wondering how this compares to the Matrix Mini-i. I like my Matrix, but I would prefer not having to turn off my KRKs every time I want to use headphones.
 
BTW, is the Newegg price of $600 the standard price? I'm seeing it for less than half that at another store.
 
 

 

[vrln]

Around 550-600 is the standard price. I doubt that 200 dollar price is real, my guess is that it's a mistake. If I lived in the States I'd email the company and ask if it's just a mistake or not. There's no way even the dealer buy-in price is that low as it's a high volume tech product, a product sector with notoriously low profit margins. ASUS does not play by the niche audiophile company rules, which is why the E1 and the ST/STX are such good value for money.

 

[ROBSCIX]

$550-600 is the standard price I have seen them for also.  That is from different locations also so it would seem that is the street price for this unit. 
 
Even at $600 the E1 is a great deal considering the features and sound quality you get...IMO

 

[vrln]

Just a check if I got this right...
 
If using the headphone output I need to switch the following opamps: 
 
(1) I/V 5532 --> From what I´ve read opamps in the I/V phase don´t make much of a difference, so this one isn´t as critical as the others? My Google searches point out this chip is, as the Guru3d review pointed out, cheap and generic. 
 
Then the signal goes to:
 
(2) LME49720NA --> Actually a pretty good opamp for the price, around 8 dollars or so? This is the same used in the Benchmark DAC--1 PRE I think.
This is to say this opamp is, considering the price of the unit, a very good one. (link: http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49720.html#Overview)
 
Then the signal finally goes to:
 
(3) LME 49600 --> This seems to be a brand new headphone amplifier buffer. The DIY forums seem to point out that it´s a very good one too. This one as it´s the buffer doesn´t need to be replaced at all, or? (link: http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49600.html#Overview). Are there any other commercial products that use this chip yet? Looks like ASUS went for really bleeding edge IC components in the E1, this and the USB receiver for example. Very nice stuff.
 
So if one is only using the headphone section, the stuff that needs to be replaced are the 5532´s and potentially the LME 49720NA´s?
 
EDIT:
 
Update on my little opamp research, just posting this here as I guess a lot of people read this thread through Google and wonder about the same things:
 
In general all the really good opamps are single channel. The market for dual channel opamps is a lot smaller. As the E1 opamps are on DIP-8 sockets, I need to buy compatible stuff. Digikey for example often sells surface mount opamps too, and those won´t fit! You need through hole ones.
 
Dual channel opamps that would fit straight into the E1: 
 
(1) OPA2107. A dual channel budget version of the legendary (and 30 dollars per unit!) OPA 627? Available on Digikey for around 11 euros per piece, link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/OPA2107AP/296-19953-5-ND/251135. Does "AP" mean a higher quality version? See: http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/451762-ic-opamp-gp-4-5mhz-dual-8dip-opa2107ap.html --> seems to cost more!
 
(2) LT1364. Another ok contender, pretty cheap too at around 6 euros per piece. Link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/LT1364CN8%23PBF/LT1364CN8%23PBF-ND/891887
 
(3) AD827. Not as good as the single channel AD flagships, but this one is a dual channel one. Price around 10 euros per piece, link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/AD827JNZ/AD827JNZ-ND/819983
 
But the "real league" are the single channel ones (according to various audio forums at least):
 
(1) OPA627 --> Expensive and hard to find. Apparently the king especially if you use bright headphones. Price a neat 30 euros per piece: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/OPA627BP/OPA627BP-ND/251166 --> It would be expensive to fill the E1 with these!
 
(2) AD797 --> Legendary stuff, used in many high end DAC´s like the Invicta. Costs around 8 euros per piece. Link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/AD797ANZ/AD797ANZ-ND/751113
 
Downside? You need an adapter to use these: dual single channel to single DIP-8.
 
Let me know if I got anything wrong! Disclaimer: I do NOT have these opamps (yet).

 

[hellenic vanagon]

Quote:

Here is a review I finished a little while ago.
There is some opamp tests and other information for those interested, you can have a look here:-> Link

Mr. Robscix I am trying to find your measurements in your review but it seems that there aren't any...
 
Is there any reason for this? 
 
Because in your perfect review for ST, (which it seems to be  a much better dac than ONE), you gave alot:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/11
 
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

Mr. Robsix I am trying to find your measurements in your review but it seems that there aren't any...
 
Is there any reason for this? 
 
Because in your perfect review for ST, (which it seems to be  a much better dac than ONE), you gave alot:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/11
 
 

I just didn't bother with RMAA measurements for this review.  The ST(X) series does have a higher measured DAC but sound quality is a bit more then just straight measurements.  The E1 does have Audio Precisions measurements included in the bundle.  You should be able to download them somewhere maybe.

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

In general all the really good opamps are single channel. The market for dual channel opamps is a lot smaller. As the E1 opamps are on DIP-8 sockets, I need to buy compatible stuff. Digikey for example often sells surface mount opamps too, and those won´t fit! You need through hole ones.
 
Dual channel opamps that would fit straight into the E1: 
 
(1) OPA2107. A dual channel budget version of the legendary (and 30 dollars per unit!) OPA 627? Available on Digikey for around 11 euros per piece, link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/OPA2107AP/296-19953-5-ND/251135. Does "AP" mean a higher quality version? See: http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/451762-ic-opamp-gp-4-5mhz-dual-8dip-opa2107ap.html --> seems to cost more!
 
(2) LT1364. Another ok contender, pretty cheap too at around 6 euros per piece. Link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/LT1364CN8%23PBF/LT1364CN8%23PBF-ND/891887
 
(3) AD827. Not as good as the single channel AD flagships, but this one is a dual channel one. Price around 10 euros per piece, link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/AD827JNZ/AD827JNZ-ND/819983
 
But the "real league" are the single channel ones (according to various audio forums at least):
 
(1) OPA627 --> Expensive and hard to find. Apparently the king especially if you use bright headphones. Price a neat 30 euros per piece: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/OPA627BP/OPA627BP-ND/251166 --> It would be expensive to fill the E1 with these!
 
(2) AD797 --> Legendary stuff, used in many high end DAC´s like the Invicta. Costs around 8 euros per piece. Link: http://search.digikey.com/fi/en/products/AD797ANZ/AD797ANZ-ND/751113
 
Downside? You need an adapter to use these: dual single channel to single DIP-8.
 
Let me know if I got anything wrong! Disclaimer: I do NOT have these opamps (yet).

You got a few things wrong
First, out of your list above, the AD797, OPA827 and OPA627 are single channel chips.  You would require atleast two of each and adapters also.
In my experience, which is quite extensive with opamps,is that the I/V actually forms a great deal of your overall signature and the buffer can be used to help enhance or hinder certain aspects.  Or can be used as a straight neutral buffer.
 
For instance, say you had some I/V that you like the signature expect for the high end, a bit to edgy.  You could add a buffer opamp that has a bit of a roll-off in the high end so the two type of chips would balance out.
You are right in that most audio opamps are SOIC8 (surface mount 8 pin) and single channel. 
Hope this helps.
 

 

[Phos]

Yeah, RMAA results aren't really useful when you have audio precision measurements.  

 

[vrln]

 
Quote:

You got a few things wrong
First, out of your list above, the AD797, OPA827 and OPA627 are single channel chips.  You would require atleast two of each and adapters also.
In my experience, which is quite extensive with opamps,is that the I/V actually forms a great deal of your overall signature and the buffer can be used to help enhance or hinder certain aspects.  Or can be used as a straight neutral buffer.
 
For instance, say you had some I/V that you like the signature expect for the high end, a bit to edgy.  You could add a buffer opamp that has a bit of a roll-off in the high end so the two type of chips would balance out.
You are right in that most audio opamps are SOIC8 (surface mount 8 pin) and single channel. 
Hope this helps.
 

I guess you read my post a bit too quickly. I didn´t actually say the AD797 and OPA627 are dual channel ones. I just compared the dual channel opamps (2107 and 827) to those legendary single channel ones, ie, that they are more or less budget dual channel versions of those in a way. I think your wrong about the AD827 though, it´s confirmed as a dual opamp on the Analog Devices website.
 
My guess is that a good place to start would be to replace the I/V opamps (5532) with some LME49720NA´s. I think I´ll first order some stereo opamps as they are easy to swap. Then a high end AD797 kit or something similar.
 
Some random stuff:
 
(1) There seem to be many DIP-8 formats, which ones is the right one on the E1?
(2) Are all the 11 opamps in the E1 dual channel ones?
(3) Looking at the ASUS opamp swap guide, the headphone signal path consists of: two I/V 5532´s, four LME49720NA´s and finally the two LME49600? I´ll open the E1 tomorrow and check. If I am though, doesn´t that mean that basically what needs to be swapped are the two 5532´s and four LME49720NA´s
(4) Are the LME49600´s socketed too and might it be worth swapping as well? 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

 

I guess you read my post a bit too quickly. I didn´t actually say the AD797 and OPA627 are dual channel ones. I just compared the dual channel opamps (2107 and 827) to those legendary single channel ones, ie, that they are more or less budget dual channel versions of those in a way. I think your wrong about the AD827 though, it´s confirmed as a dual opamp on the Analog Devices website.
 
My guess is that a good place to start would be to replace the I/V opamps (5532) with some LME49720NA´s. I think I´ll first order some stereo opamps as they are easy to swap. Then a high end AD797 kit or something similar.
 
Some random stuff:
 
(1) There seem to be many DIP-8 formats, which ones is the right one on the E1?
(2) Are all the 11 opamps in the E1 dual channel ones?
(3) Looking at the ASUS opamp swap guide, the headphone signal path consists of: two I/V 5532´s, four LME49720NA´s and finally the two LME49600? I´ll open the E1 tomorrow and check. If I am though, doesn´t that mean that basically what needs to be swapped are the two 5532´s and four LME49720NA´s
(4) Are the LME49600´s socketed too and might it be worth swapping as well? 

Yeah, must have been a mis-communication.  I thought you wrote OPA827...which is a newer single channel audio opamp that many seem to like.
I just look at the coding...my mistake
1) Really hard to say, different opamps are good for different tasks.
2) Yes, all the opamps in the E1 are dual channel.
3) the main headphone section is just two opamps the LME49720's but there are opamps off the main DAC's also that you might want to change.
4) No.
 

 

[hellenic vanagon]

Quote:

I just didn't bother with RMAA measurements for this review.  The ST(X) series does have a higher measured DAC but sound quality is a bit more then just straight measurements.  The E1 does have Audio Precisions measurements included in the bundle.  You should be able to download them somewhere maybe.

Please let me to insist a little bit.
 
1)Firstly the RMAA measurements:
 
Frequency response:
 
ST:
 

 
 
ONE: (24/96)
 

 
 
 
Noise level:
 
ST: 
 

 
 
 
ONE: (24 96)
 

 
 
 
 
Dynamic Range:
 
ST: 
 

 
 
ONE: (24 96)
 

 
 
 
THD + NOISE:
 
ST:
 

 
 
ONE: (24 96)
 

 
 
 
Intermodulation distortion:
 
 
ST:
 

 
 
 
ONE: (24 96)
 

 
 
 
 
Crosstalk:
 
ST:

 
 
ONE: (24 96)
 

 
 
We can see in the above measurements, that ST is far superior than ONE.
 
 
For ST:http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/11
 
For ONE:http://www.hdfever.fr/2011/10/10/comparatif-de-circuits-analogiques-asus-xonar-hdav-vs-dac-asus-essence-one-vs-oppo-bdp-93eu-signature-nuforce/#postTabs_ul_24252
 
 
2)Secondly, the reviewer in the French magazine, says that XONAR HDAV, sounds better than ONE, (having better measurements, also)!
 
But sir, it is well known that ST sounds much better than HDAV!
 
It is well known again, that such big differences in measurements, affect the sound quality, for sure.
 
 
3)Lastly, it seems a little difficult for the ONE to achieve such a perfect low level of jitter: (10-20 ps)
 
 
ST JITTER 24 192:
 

http://www.soundtrackforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=325
 
 
 

 

 

[germanium]

It is true that measurements don't tell the whole story. I have a modded SACD player that once modded sounded almost identical to the Essense STX with my initial mods that I made early on & was satisfied with for more than a year. I have since made more mods on it & it sounds even better but what I'm saying is the SACD player has much lower performing DAC's than the STX & once modified it came very close in sound. Only real consistant problem with the SACD player was noise which was much higher it seems than it's specs suggested. Of coarse when music was playing the noise wasn't an issue. Sound was very very good but not excellent but then again niether was the STX until my current mods but was definately satisfactory up until my current mods. Current mods moves it up to excellent.

 

[Wage]

Quote:

Please let me to insist a little bit...
 
[SNIP]
 
We can see in the above measurements, that ST is far superior than ONE.
 
 
For ST:http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/11
 
For ONE:http://www.hdfever.fr/2011/10/10/comparatif-de-circuits-analogiques-asus-xonar-hdav-vs-dac-asus-essence-one-vs-oppo-bdp-93eu-signature-nuforce/#postTabs_ul_24252
 
 
2)Secondly, the reviewer in the French magazine, says that XONAR HDAV, sounds better than ONE, (having better measurements, also)!
 
But sir, it is well known that ST sounds much better than HDAV!
 
It is well known again, that such big differences in measurements, affect the sound quality, for sure.
 
 
3)Lastly, it seems a little difficult for the ONE to achieve such a perfect low level of jitter: (10-20 ps)
 
 
ST JITTER 24 192:
 

http://www.soundtrackforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=325
 
 
 

 

Can someone translate this into English for those of us still learning how to read graphs? Or link me to a Reading Sound Graphs for Dumbies? This could be good news for me, since I already have an Essence ST, but I'm a bit skeptical since I've read before that graphs can't show everything when it comes to sound quality (unlike video quality)...

 

[hellenic vanagon]

Quote:

Can someone translate this into English for those of us still learning how to read graphs? Or link me to a Reading Sound Graphs for Dumbies? This could be good news for me, since I already have an Essence ST, but I'm a bit skeptical since I've read before that graphs can't show everything when it comes to sound quality (unlike video quality)...

Talking strictly about the sound quality, ST vs ONE:mr. Robscix says:
 
ST:
 
"The verdict is easy on this one based on some very extensive testing this card sounds excellent and provide sound quality well beyond its price point.  This card produces sound quality on par with sources many times the listed price.  The DAC's, filters, power section and circuit designs are all intended to produce the best sound for this price point.  The card produces a warm "tubey" type of sound with balanced bass, smooth midrange and highs.  The detail and clarity on this card is very pronounced, the card hides nothing allowing you to hear exactly what you have in your music."
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-st-deluxe-review/15
 
ONE:
 
"We found the Essence One to have excellent overall sound quality.  The unit has a more laid back, mature type of sound quality usually presented from more well established DAC builders and missed by those new to this area.  In comparison a source such as the STX is more upfront and in your face whereas the E1 is a bit mellower and laidback."
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-essence-one-review/9
 
Can you feel it?
 
 
About jitter.
 
The posted graph is a measurement according to this method, used by "STEREOPHILE":
 

 

 
 
Of course, using ADC and DAC, there may be a "masking" phenomenon, and we are right to expect a, (slightly), even better mesurement for the dac alone:
 

 
And such jitter performance, (10-20 ps), for ST, is an absolute top, since many expensive dacs cannot grade better.