[Tomm11]

Anyone find it's power a little low for a dedicated $600 headphone amplifier especially through single ended even on high gain. It seems to be a little less powerful than my LG G8 which is 6 year old goddam phone. Astell&Kern tell on their website that it can put out 4VRMS in single ended which should be more than G8 but it says no load which to me sounds when it is not driving anything which to say the least is very misleading as normally all other manufacturers give us the load impedance. Used for few hours still not sure about this definitely not a value product.

You just nailed my biggest issue with A&K. It will most likely do the stated output voltage ... into 47Kohms

 

[Sulbh]

You just nailed my biggest issue with A&K. It will most likely do the stated output voltage ... into 47Kohms

I mean you are a dedicated amplifier with a very hefty weight and a hefty price the least you could do is outamlplify a 6 year old phone which had to budget a display and a flagship CPU in it and it still is lighter in weight than you and outamplify you. What are you doing with all the weight and price of yours?

 

[Sulbh]

I have $50 dongles which have more power than this . Yes I am using it in single ended but still it is a shame. Not sure what was Astell&Kern thinking with this. This cannot even drive headphones under 100 Ohms properly. I know balanced should be more powerful but You cannot use balanced out for every headphone. This product seems like snake oil to me.

 

[BS5711]

I have $50 dongles which have more power than this . Yes I am using it in single ended but still it is a shame. Not sure what was Astell&Kern thinking with this. This cannot even drive headphones under 100 Ohms properly. I know balanced should be more powerful but You cannot use balanced out for every headphone. This product seems like snake oil to me.

Are you sure you have the proper line in voltage going into the PA10 ?

What is your source and settings ?

I have a PA10, Chord Mojo, iFi Go Bar, Gryphon and Diablo with the PA10 sitting second on the list of most powerful only behind the Diablo.

I use the 4.4mm but I have used the 3.5mm and it does OK, yes the 4.4mm is notably better in terms of power, perhaps you should try the 4.4mm before judging too harshly assuming you are actually getting everything out of the 3.5mm by using an appropriate input device/voltage.

 

[dsrk]

I have $50 dongles which have more power than this . Yes I am using it in single ended but still it is a shame. Not sure what was Astell&Kern thinking with this. This cannot even drive headphones under 100 Ohms properly. I know balanced should be more powerful but You cannot use balanced out for every headphone. This product seems like snake oil to me.

I agree that AK doesn't advertise proper output power but I have never heard a dedicated AMP that is less powerful than a mobile even it is LG G series.
Is your source providing less output voltage or there is something wrong with your PA10. Because for some AMPs input voltage is vital.

Remember volume is not voltage or current, my 2Vrms PM2 has more volume than RS6 but it doesn't mean PM2 has more driving power.

 

[povidlo]

Very good review posted earlier measured pa10 to output 900mW single-ended and 1800mW balanced. Here's the Vpp output comparison chart.

 

[Sulbh]

Are you sure you have the proper line in voltage going into the PA10 ?

What is your source and settings ?

I have a PA10, Chord Mojo, iFi Go Bar, Gryphon and Diablo with the PA10 sitting second on the list of most powerful only behind the Diablo.

I use the 4.4mm but I have used the 3.5mm and it does OK, yes the 4.4mm is notably better in terms of power, perhaps you should try the 4.4mm before judging too harshly assuming you are actually getting everything out of the 3.5mm by using an appropriate input device/voltage.

I used it with LG G8 using the stock cable 3.5mm to 3.5mm that came with it. I tried G8 with and without PA10 connected to it driving beyerdynamic DT770 pro and it comes close to driving power of G8 but not quite there. Can anyone with G8 try this and confirm. I mean it should not even be a contest. PA10 should wipe the floor with G8 but that is not case for me at least.

 

[RIGATIO]

I used it with LG G8 using the stock cable 3.5mm to 3.5mm that came with it. I tried G8 with and without PA10 connected to it driving beyerdynamic DT770 pro and it comes close to driving power of G8 but not quite there. Can anyone with G8 try this and confirm. I mean it should not even be a contest. PA10 should wipe the floor with G8 but that is not case for me at least.

Maybe check what voltage the LG is able to deliver. The pa10 is fussy here. Btw, when checked the pa10 from single ended, it powered the Sundaras easily, where the LG V30 couldn't do it as well.
Using balanced circuit, they almost take off xD

 

[Sulbh]

Maybe check what voltage the LG is able to deliver. The pa10 is fussy here. Btw, when checked the pa10 from single ended, it powered the Sundaras easily, where the LG V30 couldn't do it as well.
Using balanced circuit, they almost take off xD

How do I check that? This seems a bit complicated for just an amplifier which should be a simple product simpler than even a DAC/AMP. Isn't the whole point of getting an amplifier to feed a low powered signal which needs amplification. If you have to feed it high powered signal then it lost it's purpose.

 

[RIGATIO]

How do I check that? This seems a bit complicated for just an amplifier which should be a simple product simpler than even a DAC/AMP. Isn't the whole point of getting an amplifier to feed a low powered signal which needs amplification. If you have to feed it high powered signal then it lost it's purpose.

Yeah I agree, AK was always unclear here. Why can't they just provide the output power how others do- in mW- this I don't understand.
But besides that I can't deny that the pa10 is very powerful.
Btw I think IFI is even worse in misleading customers. The whole Diablo/Diablo 2 dishonest advertising about how powerful it is, delivery 5W of power, when in reality it was barely able to output around 2-2.4 W without distortions.

 

[Sulbh]

Yeah I agree, AK was always unclear here. Why can't they just provide the output power how others do- in mW- this I don't understand.
But besides that I can't deny that the pa10 is very powerful.
Btw I think IFI is even worse in misleading customers. The whole Diablo/Diablo 2 dishonest advertising about how powerful it is, delivery 5W of power, when in reality it was barely able to output around 2-2.4 W without distortions.

What source are you using with PA10?

 

[BS5711]

How do I check that? This seems a bit complicated for just an amplifier which should be a simple product simpler than even a DAC/AMP. Isn't the whole point of getting an amplifier to feed a low powered signal which needs amplification. If you have to feed it high powered signal then it lost it's purpose.

I suspect your problem is the source voltage.

Your LG can probably output sufficient voltage to drive a set of headphones to reasonable volume but that same voltage may very well be below the input voltage level required by the PA10. That is the PA10 is designed to work with a dedicated line out from a DAP or dedicated DAC. The usual input voltage is 2 volts single ended 3.5mm and 4 volts balanced from the 4.4mm.

I just did a quick Google search and it appears that your LG has quite a powerful headphone amplifier capable of 2 volts.

However, the PA10 needs all of those 2 volts as the input signal so you would need to wind the LG to maximum to get the desired voltage. If you only set it say half volume the input voltage would be way below what the PA10 is designed to work with and the resultant output power would be well below what it is capable of with a proper line in. The input voltage makes a huge difference to the output voltage/power.

Driving the headphone amplifier to maximum volume might introduce distortion that would not be present on the line out from a DAP that is set up to feed straight off the DAC rather than run through the amplifier, theoretically that would be detrimental to the sound quality since you would be amplifying a distorted input signal.

There are a lot of ifs in what I just typed but it might be a guide to help you sort out your concerns with the PA10.

 

[rkm7]

I used it with LG G8 using the stock cable 3.5mm to 3.5mm that came with it. I tried G8 with and without PA10 connected to it driving beyerdynamic DT770 pro and it comes close to driving power of G8 but not quite there. Can anyone with G8 try this and confirm. I mean it should not even be a contest. PA10 should wipe the floor with G8 but that is not case for me at least.

Do make sure that you are actually triggering the high impedance mode of the LG when you connect the PA10. This will give 2vrms to PA10.
Input voltage do matter. Out of curiosity, I have fed non-american apple usb-c to 3.5mm dac to PA10 and it was pretty weak, even in high gain of PA10.

 

[RIGATIO]

What source are you using with PA10?

A&K sp1000 dap. There is an info about its output voltage in settings , showing 2V from single ended and 4V from balanced.
Also checked the Pioneer xdp300r via 3.5 and it was also powerful enough.
The pa10 was mainly created for daps with a proper line out or a dedicated DACs, exactly like @BS5711 mentioned.
You also asked why is it so big and heavy. Well to me its quite light but bit bulky true, but you need to consider the fact that its a true class A amp so the discrete circuit plus the battery need some space.

 

[RIGATIO]

Do make sure that you are actually triggering the high impedance mode of the LG when you connect the PA10. This will give 2vrms to PA10.
Input voltage do matter. Out of curiosity, I have fed non-american apple usb-c to 3.5mm dac to PA10 and it was pretty weak, even in high gain of PA10.

Yeah that's true, you need to trigger 50 Ohm + output power from your LG. When ive had the V30, when using lower impedance headphones, I plugged a male to female interconnect firstly, then the headphones. This triggered the proper maximal output power. When using 50 Ohm + headphones, it wasn't necessary.