[chesebert]

I understand R-2R dacs are all the craze these days and everyone is gushing over the amazing "next gen" R-2R offerings from China and elsewhere. However, before you all go and spend $1k or more on the FOTM R-2R DACs, you need to know how a properly designed and implemented R2R should sound like.

I offer you 2 top specimen that were released almost 30 years ago. They can both be found in the used market for around $1k.

First up: Sonic Frontiers SFD-2 Mk1, mk2 and mk3 (mk3 will be more than $1k).

Here is the conclusion from Stereophile's 1993 review of the mk1:
"I've rarely been as excited about a product as I am about the Sonic Frontiers SFD-2. Its sound is clearly of Class A caliber; it is perhaps the best-sounding digital processor I've heard—regardless of price. What makes the SFD-2 so exciting is that this level of digital sound quality won't cost you as much as a decent car. Although the SFD-2 isn't inexpensive, it nevertheless is much more affordable than the five-figure processors that previously defined the state of the art"

Next up: Mark Levinson No.36

Here is the conclusion from Stereophile's 1995 review:
What can I say? Run out and buy the No.36? That would not be bad advice if you have the price of admission. It certainly must be heard, even if only to hear what's possible in today's best D/A converters. Make no mistake: the No.36 can compete in that company (footnote 2).

Hope you all get a chance to hear one of them so you know what a base level of R2R performance new R2R dacs should be aiming for.

Good hunting!

 

[Riccioli30]

I understand R-2R dacs are all the craze these days and everyone is gushing over the amazing "next gen" R-2R offerings from China and elsewhere. However, before you all go and spend $1k or more on the FOTM R-2R DACs, you need to know how a properly designed and implemented R2R should sound like.

I offer you 2 top specimen that were released almost 30 years ago. They can both be found in the used market for around $1k.

First up: Sonic Frontiers SFD-2 Mk1, mk2 and mk3 (mk3 will be more than $1k).

Here is the conclusion from Stereophile's 1993 review of the mk1:
"I've rarely been as excited about a product as I am about the Sonic Frontiers SFD-2. Its sound is clearly of Class A caliber; it is perhaps the best-sounding digital processor I've heard—regardless of price. What makes the SFD-2 so exciting is that this level of digital sound quality won't cost you as much as a decent car. Although the SFD-2 isn't inexpensive, it nevertheless is much more affordable than the five-figure processors that previously defined the state of the art"

Next up: Mark Levinson No.36

Here is the conclusion from Stereophile's 1995 review:
What can I say? Run out and buy the No.36? That would not be bad advice if you have the price of admission. It certainly must be heard, even if only to hear what's possible in today's best D/A converters. Make no mistake: the No.36 can compete in that company (footnote 2).

Hope you all get a chance to hear one of them so you know what a base level of R2R performance new R2R dacs should be aiming for.

Good hunting!

Interesting, following ..... that's exactly my aim: to replace (better: accompany / side by side) my old DACs (Audio Research with Ultra Analog and Audio Note J. at the time chosen after long comparisons) with something better (?) And technologically updated: I need HI-res streaming that my dacs don't ........ Difficult choice for me as I'm an (old) analogic guy..Rockna,Denafris,Holo..they look promising ..... I try to understand something more

 

[akelew]

Wheres the USB port?

 

[chesebert]

Wheres the USB port?

Just get the Alpha USB from BAD

 

[Arniesb]

Never understand this shilling over dinosaur tech... Youre paying for what? Heavy distortions?
Things get better not worse, but some cant just let the past go...

 

[Redcarmoose]

Max bit rate 48kHz-20bit? No thanks.

 

[chesebert]

Don’t let me stop you from getting hoodwinked into the next FOTM R-2R. Look at all these people who just can’t let the ancient R-2R tech die in peace.

If you are going R2R at least get one that sounds good.

 

[tamahome77]

You'll be surprised how slow DAC tech has progressed over the last 30 years. Sonic frontiers makes very good quality dacs.

 

[Redcarmoose]

@https://www.head-fi.org/members/chesebert.11861/

I remember when your truck used to be an animated gif.

 

[chesebert]

@https://www.head-fi.org/members/chesebert.11861/

I remember when your truck used to be an animated gif.

I lost my cape when the site was last rebuilt.

 

[Riccioli30]

You'll be surprised how slow DAC tech has progressed over the last 30 years. Sonic frontiers makes very good quality dacs.

absolutely correct ... that's why it's hard work (for those who really lived with the top of those times and is an "analog" guy) to find something, now, that is worthwhile .... a few names at the end. (sonically speaking of course, and IMHO ). Technologically there is no match as it should be ..no contest.

 

[driftingbunnies]

Never understand this shilling over dinosaur tech... Youre paying for what? Heavy distortions?
Things get better not worse, but some cant just let the past go...

Not sure where this myth comes from. There are plenty of things, audio and outside of audio, where older things are much better quality than today's "use once and throw away" mentality. Some of the DACs are meant to satisfy budgets and not to satisfy our ears. Currently we have better ways to measure things but that doesn't mean that stuff built previously are worse. A new topping dac does not make a SOTA dac from the 1990s/2000s obsolete. $5000 from the 90s goes a long way when it comes to less compromises than a $200 DS chifi dac.

 

[chesebert]

Talking about useless measurements. I remember way back when people used to look at slew rate of an amp and attribute some audiophile quality to it. At the time every ss amp was trying to have the next highest slew rate. It turned out that chasing after the slew rate didn’t make good sounding amps. Same could be said about chasing low distortion and increased global negative feedback - doesn’t sound so good.

People also forgetting that dac design is essentially 80% analog design and 20% DSP. So much goes into power managment, power distribution, circuit layout, parts usage, clock management, small signal management, noise managment, vibration management, output design, etc. Unlike DSP tech, analog design hasn’t really changed all that much in decades, just small incremental improvements and better understanding of how we hear things and correlate that to design goals.

 

[chesebert]

Not sure where this myth comes from. There are plenty of things, audio and outside of audio, where older things are much better quality than today's "use once and throw away" mentality. Some of the DACs are meant to satisfy budgets and not to satisfy our ears. Currently we have better ways to measure things but that doesn't mean that stuff built previously are worse. A new topping dac does not make a SOTA dac from the 1990s/2000s obsolete. $5000 from the 90s goes a long way when it comes to less compromises than a $200 DS chifi dac.

These people make their buying decision on ASR measurements - typical audiophile younglings.

To be clear nothing against ASR or measurements in general, which I find helpful. It all comes down to interpretation.

 

[music_man]

Uh, vinyl? Some folks never underunderstand. All hail the cheif(engineer) Mark Levinson. Just that the poor guy had sold his name so many times. Look, if they want something newer at least Madrigal. The ML "S" series with Mil-Spec PTFE Perf boards is the real elitest kit. I rock 20.6 amps and they slaughter anything made today hands down. 26S, 36S you know the goods if you know them. These kids today, there is no telling them. 24 bit is better than 20 bit.....