Are headphones "too revealing" for me?
May 30, 2008 at 11:40 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 24

pbirkett

Headphoneus Supremus
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You know what, I've spent probably something in the region of around 8 years in the hobby, give or take, and one thing that I feel like I have never cracked in all of that time is to make my music just as enjoyable to me on headphones as it is on a well chosen pair of speakers.

I have owned dozens of different headphones, and that culminates with my latest purchase a Proline 2500.

The thing is, I think I am finally starting to realise what the problem is after all of these years.

I think its that headphones, or more specifically, mid - high end headphones are perhaps just too revealing. Let me elaborate on that and say that there are a few things going on here. First is that headphones are a compromise from the outset, having drivers placed right near your ears is not a natural presentation, and for me, it does not seem to matter what tricks are performed to try and overcome this, they can improve it, but never quite succeed to my ears. However, that is not a boundary to enjoying music I dont think. This leads me on to the second problem, and its the one I think I have personally. A lot of my music is electronic and trance. Some of it is very well recorded, and that can sound extremely nice on decent headphones. However, a lot of it really isn't that well recorded and I think a lot of headphones are just too matter of fact to really enjoy it, they reveal the flaws all too easily.

Now this is the part that might come as a surprise to a lot of headfiers, but in a headphone history that has involved such headphones as the HD650, DT880, CD3000, DT990, Proline 2500, and other similar tier headphones, the two headphones looking back that I enjoyed the most OVERALL are the Beyer DT531, and the Senn CX300!

Let me explain - the Beyers were what I think of as a kind of hybrid between entry level and more high end tier stuff. They just sounded sweet for everything. Sure, they werent the be-all-end-all in terms of technical ability - they didnt have the fastest or deepest bass, the most extended treble, or the most detail, but they did most things competently and did it without disecting your music and putting it under the microscope. They got across the musical message much better than most to my ears and they just made you forget about hifi, and just enjoy the music. With them, looking back, I rarely worried about slight flaws in the music, but with better equipment I'm always drawn to the flaws in the music. For me, what the 531 did was make well recorded stuff sound about 90% as good as what it can on the high end stuff, but made lesser material sound much more listenable.

The CX300, which to some people is probably quite a poor headphone, again to me, on the music I listen to, it communicates the musical message well. It has powerful, if somewhat boomy bass, and it sounds rather insistent, not particularly smooth or anything like that, but it just to my ear boogies particularly well, without ever sounding particularly high end, and as such, is enjoyable.

In a similar fashion, I am kind of finding a similar problem with my TV. I have a HD ready plasma TV that I use for blu-ray and such like. I now notice technical flaws a lot more in the picture and I am drawn to them in a similar way. When I had my old Sony Wega CRT, almost everything I put on it looked quite good. Again, a really good recording would, to my eyes, look possibly 90% as good as it does on my Plasma TV (a Panasonic Viera) but the lower stuff looked far better on the Sony.

I appreciate that we need to move things forward with audio and visual things, but I just find particularly with music but with a lesser extent also with video, the software we play on it is just not up to scratch, and the equipment we now use is capable of showing us everything, warts and all.

I can now see why I like my speakers because they make everything I play on them sound great, they might not be the very best you can get but they sure do make everything sound enjoyable.

Don't get me wrong, I am more than happy to accept that a lot of folks on here listen to totally different music to me, and that music may well be recorded much better on average than the music I listen to and as such, there is probably a lot more of a reason then to have high end stuff, particularly as said folks probably listen to a lot more music per week than I do. However for me, I am thinking its pointless given my music tastes and habits to have a high end setup, as low end stuff that gets the basics right and doesn't expose flaws is just a lot more suitable for my listening tastes.

As such, I am thinking of going back to a "modest" pair of headphones like the DT531 or similar, and just retire from this game, as I think I am just chasing an impossible dream - its not been for a want of trying, but I genuinely believe that what I want probably isn't attainable.
 
May 30, 2008 at 12:38 PM Post #2 of 24
Hey, who said having a pair of ibuds around would hurt, right? =P

But anyways, like you said, you do listen to electronic and trance, and consider them... they arent the BEST representation of "real" instrumentation. Also, the recording may not be "clean" so you won't get the best sound quality as you might have enjoyed with a pair of "yucky" buds. (this is obviously due to the fact that they cant reproduce much)

Likewise, this is the same as to everything, moving high end to speakers, TV... basically ANYTHING, you will see the flaws if one holds back the rest.
I mean, you cant expect to buy a Ferrari body, fit it with a Camry engine and still expect it to perform like a supercar right?

There are people that choose to live a "modest" life, and of course, its their choice... Its because they know that they cannot handle the fact that they may be dishing out... $100 grand, on something that they actually dont care about (or maybe even feel the same way like you), and therefore wasting their money. I personally, would like to strive higher and higher, but then thats only until I actually feel that I start to pour too much money and time on something that is too... let say... materialistic.

But in the end, it is all about the enjoyment, if you can enjoy your music with lower priced earphones / headphones, by all means, DO SO!!!
 
May 30, 2008 at 12:59 PM Post #3 of 24
I would give the AKG K601 a try. Seriously. They are very forgiving (not analytical or over-detailed), yet accurate, and offer a sound pleasantly located outside of the head. When I listen to music with them, I never even think about the headphones or the rest of my gear.

Mine might actually be with me next week in England, too
smily_headphones1.gif
 
May 30, 2008 at 1:04 PM Post #4 of 24
I agree with Jaska. Try something of an all-arounder like the K601. Or HD600 or HD595.
 
May 30, 2008 at 2:02 PM Post #5 of 24
Thanks for replies. I've been reading about the K601s since it was mentioned, and although it looks like they are more pop tuned than the likes of the K701, I still heard some people say they sound a little "boring".

As for the HD600, I had the 650 and didnt end up liking them - too dark and slow and muffled - but I did once have the 580s in my possesion at the same time as I had the DT531 and I felt they were quite good but somehow probably still lacking the "spirit" I'm after.

I really cant afford to make many more mistakes with this now. I'm at the stage where I just want to retire with a fun headphone and forget about all this kind of stuff. I'm not really sure I enjoy all this trial and error stuff any more, it costs a fortune and its impossible to audition anything other than an entry grado or upper sennheiser in shops around here.
 
May 30, 2008 at 2:11 PM Post #6 of 24
Hah. I enjoyed reading this post very much. I can't really describe in English what it shows you but I think you guys got a pretty good idea
wink.gif

Thanks for the read, Paul!
 
May 30, 2008 at 2:14 PM Post #7 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett /img/forum/go_quote.gif
some people say they [the K601] sound a little "boring".


I rather think they sound unobtrusive.

Quote:

I did once have the 580s in my possesion at the same time as I had the DT531 and I felt they were quite good but somehow probably still lacking the "spirit" I'm after.


Hmm, it's been my experience that when a certain spirit or liveliness is sought in a headphone, it's invariably a trade-off for something else unwanted. I know you've given Grados a try, and I think they're a good example of this. As long as you stick with music that's very well recorded and doesn't have overdone treble, they're great. With some other headphones (certain beyerdynamics and Sennheisers), the trade-off might be in the form of muddy bass. The K601, on the other hand, really doesn't seem to fail with anything that I've heard thus far.

My opinion is that the K601 is a great headphone, and that when a bit of extra fun is desired, a temporary switch to an inexpensive Grado is a very nice change of pace.
 
May 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM Post #9 of 24
Its a pity I cant audition as I might have a better idea whether a K601 would solve the problems, but alas, I just have this weird feeling that it would perhaps be a sidestep and not really quite deliver what I want.

I'm pretty sure the solution seems to be to have two pairs of headphones, but it just mystifies me why, to date, I've only ever heard one pair of headphones that gave a good honest stab at everything without you ever feeling like you needed something else, and they were among the cheapest headphones I've owned...

I keep thinking they must be out there somewhere, but the more I look, the more I think they aren't... unless of course you have VERY deep pockets for something like the RS-1 / GS1K / ED9 etc, and even then I suspect they would be even MORE revealing, and experience has taught me that the quality increases rapidly diminish in comparison to price increases, and as such (being not particularly well off), will never be an option for me.
 
May 30, 2008 at 3:57 PM Post #10 of 24
i find the ergo 2 to be the most forgiving, all-around headphone of all the headphones i have tried.
they can take any kind of music i have thrown at them; vinyl or mp3, from new wave and italo to space prog and orchestral.

i have yet to find any music that sounds awfull on them, and they can happily be driven by my ipod and cheap portable amp
smily_headphones1.gif


if i were to keep only one headphone it wold probably be the ergo.
 
May 30, 2008 at 4:28 PM Post #11 of 24
pbirkett....I completely understand what you're saying. I like my Ultrasone DJ1's (1st gen, haven't heard the 2nd gen). I use them despite having a Stax system back home.

I may have to try the Beyer DT531 now...
 
May 30, 2008 at 4:54 PM Post #12 of 24
Quote:

Originally Posted by Czilla9000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
pbirkett....I completely understand what you're saying. I like my Ultrasone DJ1's (1st gen, haven't heard the 2nd gen). I use them despite having a Stax system back home.

I may have to try the Beyer DT531 now...



The DT531 is still for sale at a Dutch webstore....
 
May 30, 2008 at 6:36 PM Post #13 of 24
I am totally into electronica & Trance...and i realise whats the problem..

Basically, Electronic music has NO SOUNDSTAGE...why? coz all the samples are recorded and generated from the software.


there is no physical placement of any instrument and because of which NO headphones can let you enjoy that music on headphones.

my advice? try CLOSED headphones...seriously..

Trance is all about beats and the highs...Closed cans are weak in midrange and really give u that punchy bass which puts u in trance.


Trance music has ZERO soundstage and that is the core problem why u never really felt satisfied with the output.
 
May 31, 2008 at 9:44 AM Post #15 of 24
i have been searching for a pair of headphones that are like the ones that pbirkett described aswell. i have been searching for some time now in the shadows of old treads, the reason for me not having many posts, and have found next to zilch. why cant a company make a pair of decent headphones that are fun, intriguing, and have enough bass, with out being overly analytical or cold. i have tried some of the phones that receive alot of hype around here, but have not been impressed. they seem empty and almost fake.
if any of you headphone gods are just happening to pass by i ask, no i implore you to please be kind enough to grace us with your suggestions.

p.s. i have heard of the denon d2000 and they apparently are very good with many types of music and hace a colored sound that is more concerned about sound quality than complete detail. to compare them with the hd650, that you said you had pbirkett, i think they are something like what you are looking for "Yes, the Denons have an incredible amount of bass/emotional impact but that impact is always there at any time. The HD650s tend to have less of an impact but has more resolution."

please someone help me and anyone else who feels like me find an end to our search and continue with our lives happily... not to mention a heck of a lot richer.
 

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