[Antony6555]

I ask this question because the jh13s are the first iem I have ever heard claim these frequency ratings. Many have declared that they prefer that the jh13s outperform their full-sized cans, and this has deeply intrigued me. Yet others have stated that armatures are simply incapable of 10hz-20khz, and if this is true it seems unlikely that armatures will ever match the performance of full-size cans. I'm particularly interested in how this could affect treble extension. Is there any consensus on this? Reaching a consensus on this would be seemingly very useful for both those interested in higher end iems and those interested in specifically the jh13 (like me.)

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony6555 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ask this question because the jh13s are the first iem I have ever heard claim these frequency ratings. Many have declared that they prefer that the jh13s outperform their full-sized cans, and this has deeply intrigued me. Yet others have stated that armatures are simply incapable of 10hz-20khz, and if this is true it seems unlikely that armatures will ever match the performance of full-size cans. Is there any consensus on this? Reaching a consensus on this would be seemingly very useful for both those interested in higher end iems and those interested in specifically the jh13 (like me.)

I've run frequency tests on my X10's (with my ears), and they are solid up to about 14Khz. At 16Khz, they are about 30 Db down (maybe less, because my ears may be down a bit.) There doesn't seem to be anything over 16Khz, but that could be ears as well.

As a side note, they are solid down to 20 hz on the bottom end. Not bad for a single driver.

Larry said in his JH13 review that they are completely solid up until 16Khz, which is the limit of his hearing.

 

[shigzeo]

i would imagine they can. armatures don't have the deep impact that dynamics do, but any armature really, should go that far. as far as how well you can hear that level and if that depth comes out in normal music audibly is another thing. if it isn't a square wave, hearing 20Hz is hard with lots of other music. but nearly any earphone can hit 20Hz sqaure wave. doing sine is different however.

 

[Rip N' Burn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the JH13's using a new type of balanced armature drivers? Someone mentioned it in a post but I can't remember who.

 

[ClieOS]

It is not about how far reaching the frequency response is, but how liner it can hold within a reasonable tolerance range. Without specifying a tolerance range, you can claim whatever frequency response you want to but it will be mostly pointless.

Jerry has been very careful on FR claiming himself, going back to the early UE time. I am sure he has some hard data to backup his statements.

Note: many big cans also have unreliable FR claiming as their manufacturers do not specify tolerance range as well.

 

[AtomikPi]

Does it really matter?

I think even if the JH13 really only go, say, 13-18k, above around 18khz isn't that important (slight effect on cymbals and a few other instruments) and below 20 similarly isn't that important (just subwoofer type shaking). If the JH13 do the area in their range better than any other phones, then it doesn't matter if other phones are almost imperceptibly more extended.

 

[Antony6555]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomikPi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does it really matter? I think even if the JH13 really only go, say, 13-18k, above around 18khz isn't that important (slight effect on cymbals and a few other instruments) and below 20 similarly isn't that important (just subwoofer type shaking). If the JH13 do the area in their range better than any other phones, then it doesn't matter if other phones are almost imperceptibly more extended.

The differences would be subtle true, but there nonetheless. And at that price point, you pay big bucks for small differences. Also, for those considering high end armature iems, I think it is could be helpful in deciding to whether to go with the jh13 or something cheaper-if it is actually impossible to replicate full-size headphone response in iems.

Has anyone tested the jh13s? Is there a frequency response graph?

 

[Antony6555]

bump for graph

 

[Antony6555]

bump I'm still interested in this issue, particularly with treble extension

 

[zb0430]

This is just a general rule of audio...

The more specifically tunable drivers you have, the easier it is to achieve a more expanded frequency response with pleasing results. More dedicated drivers to dedicated frequency ranges. The trick is the crossover.

6 drivers gives JH Audio an inherent design advantage in that regard, and apparently it delivers. The thing to note, however, is that once you get below a robust 20 Hz or over a robust 16kHz, we're not only talking subtleties, we're talking extreme subtleties that many can't physically hear. It's the linearity of the frequency response approaching those extremes that make the audible difference.

My Sensaphonics 2X-S can hit 20Hz robustly (down to 16Hz), up to 16kHz robustly (I think my hearing drops out at 19kHz to 20kHz). I'd notice an audible difference in a phone's bass if it hit 10-15Hz robustly, but we'd still be talking subtleties. But people pay lots of money for subtleties, for sure.

I certainly think BA drivers can, and do, hit those frequencies. Not to mention they seem to be constantly improving, at a faster rate than dynamic rivals.

 

[kiteki]

Quote:

bump for graph

 

This is the graph soundmagic provides for their armature PL50.
 
Not sure what to make of the 2.8k and 8.5k peak and low 15k delivery.
 
I'm currently inexperienced with armatures, but considering this as my first model to still my curiosity. =)
 
 

 

 

[deviationer]

dead thread
kiteki did you even notice the last post? 9/9/09 at 9:44am
 
It's generally not a good idea to bump such an old thread with mostly useless info.

 

[Pianist]

It doesn't really matter if any earphone can extend to 20 kHz. Solid extension to 16 kHz is all that matter IMO. Most people simply can't hear frequencies above 16 kHz in music I suspect. Listening to sine tones is different - when you listen to a tone, it's just one tone, but in music, there's so much more information and those few sparkles above 16 kHz that may not even be there in the first place with a lot of music, just won't be audible to most of us I believe.

 

[kiteki]

If armatures are really weak at really high frequencies (since this is their best graph) then that's useful information to me.
 
Yes I saw the 9/9/9/9/9/9 I'm sorry did the world explode?

 

[ethan961]

Armatures are not really weak in the highs. Perhaps the PL50 isn't the strongest in the highs. The PL50 =/= all armatures, just like how the CK10 and Apple Dual Driver IEM are both dual armature IEMs, but one is leaps and bounds ahead of the other.
 
And, more importantly, graphs mean rather little in the grand scheme of things.