[angelom]

I own the APP1 and APP2 also what are you even talking about?

And the APP2 doesn’t sound better than the APM (yes, I own these too).

Even my $99 Sony WH-1000XM3 post-EQ is better. The APP2 sounds very tinny, in your head and harsh sometimes too. With the Sony’s, the soundstage is much bigger and more natural and it is well balanced after applying EQ.

And if you really want to hear how terrible the soundstage of the APP2 is, go watch a movie with spatial audio. It is not even funny. And it is way too harsh. The soundstage of APM is way better. Not to mention, the bass impact and the ability to do bass rumble like you expect in a movie is something the APP2 cannot do either.

ALL reviews, including some by very reputable and credible reviewers, contradict your opinion of the APP2.

 

[jasonb]

This APP2 that has no soundstage, cannot do bass impact nor bass rumble and is way too harsh? Just put on a movie with spatial audio and you will laugh at the difference between the APP2 and APM.

I had both at the same time and sold the APM. I think the (fake) soundstage is fine, and the bass for me definitely rumbles and has impact.

 

[Progisus]

@ubs28 Sounds like you got a faulty pair? I feel like it’s the total opposite of what you say.

Agreed.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

I own the APP1 and APP2 also what are you even talking about?

And the APP2 doesn’t sound better than the APM (yes, I own these too).

Even my $99 Sony WH-1000XM3 post-EQ is better. The APP2 sounds very tinny, in your head and harsh sometimes too. With the Sony’s, the soundstage is much bigger and more natural and it is well balanced after applying EQ.

And if you really want to hear how terrible the soundstage of the APP2 is, go watch a movie with spatial audio. It is not even funny. And it is way too harsh. The soundstage of APM is way better. Not to mention, the bass impact and the ability to do bass rumble like you expect in a movie is something the APP2 cannot do either.

I hate to have to say this, but perhaps you prefer all bass and no mids or highs?

And I have the Sony WH-1000XM4, which I do not particularly like even when EQ'd with the free Sony app. The biggest problem with the WH-1000XM4 is the quality of the bass, not just the quantity. The Sony app's EQ does not do enough to fix all of the problems of the WH-1000XM4: You cannot properly reduce the bass with that app - either you get too little bass, or you get bass that bleeds all over the lower mids. Nothing in between because the app's EQ isn't granular enough to make much of a difference. Only an expensive (relatively speaking) paid app equalizer can come anywhere close to fixing that muddy bass response.

And yes, I did try the brighter settings as well as the custom EQ settings with the WH-1000XM4. But while that made things more balanced, the mids (especially upper mids) still sounded wonky.

Sound quality out of the box at default settings is the biggest factor for me. EQ is good only for fine tuning an already good set of headphones or earbuds, not for fixing a seriously flawed-sounding pair of them.

As such, I found that the Sony WH-1000XM4's sound quality is much farther away from my ideal over-ear headphone sound quality criteria than the APP2's is to my ideal earbud/IEM sound quality criteria.

 

[ubs28]

I hate to have to say this, but perhaps you prefer all bass and no mids or highs?

And I have the Sony WH-1000XM4, which I do not particularly like even when EQ'd with the free Sony app. The biggest problem with the WH-1000XM4 is the quality of the bass, not just the quantity. The Sony app's EQ does not do enough to fix all of the problems of the WH-1000XM4: You cannot properly reduce the bass with that app - either you get too little bass, or you get bass that bleeds all over the lower mids. Nothing in between because the app's EQ isn't granular enough to make much of a difference. Only an expensive (relatively speaking) paid app equalizer can come anywhere close to fixing that muddy bass response.

And yes, I did try the brighter settings as well as the custom EQ settings with the WH-1000XM4. But while that made things more balanced, the mids (especially upper mids) still sounded wonky.

Sound quality out of the box at default settings is the biggest factor for me. EQ is good only for fine tuning an already good set of headphones or earbuds, not for fixing a seriously flawed-sounding pair of them.

As such, I found that the Sony WH-1000XM4's sound quality is much farther away from my ideal over-ear headphone sound quality criteria than the APP2's is to my ideal earbud/IEM sound quality criteria.

The XM4 is a different headphone, it doesn't even sound like the XM3. The XM3 is not all bass, no mids and no highs post-EQ. The bass and mids are fine post-EQ. It has a roll off on the highs still, but who cares for $99. It's not an audiophile headphone.

But watch a movie with Spatial Audio on the Apple AirPods Max and there is no way the soundstage of the APP2 is correct at all, nor is the bass any good.

This is not about "me prefering all bass no mids or highs", it's about what you expect from the content and if it correctly portraits it.

 

[jasonb]

The XM3 is not all bass, no mids and no highs post-EQ. The bass and mids are fine post-EQ, very well balanced. It has a roll off on the highs still, but who cares for $99. It's probably the cheapest headphone that I have so I will let some stuff slide. And the XM4 is a different headphone than the XM3.

The APP2 has no soundstage and the sounds is all up inside my head, very small and tinny sounding. And you really notice this if you watch a movie with spatial audio. The APM absolutely destroys the APP2.

And in certain movie scenes, you expect some kind of bass rumble which the APM do it effortlessly, while the APP2 totally fails at. So that's also a clear sign that whatever the APP2 is doing, isn't right.

APM > APP2.

Still going to disagree. I had the APP2 and APM at the same time, and I preferred the APP2 for music and for movies with spatial audio.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

The XM4 is a different headphone, it doesn't even sound like the XM3. The XM3 is not all bass, no mids and no highs post-EQ. The bass and mids are fine post-EQ. It has a roll off on the highs still, but who cares for $99.

But watch a movie with Spatial Audio on the Apple AirPods Max and there is no way the soundstage of the APP2 is correct at all, nor is the bass any good. With certain movie scenes, you also expect some kind of bass rumble which the APM does effortlessly, but the APP2 fails to portray it.

Sounds like you dislike all in-ear 'phones of any kind. You just assume that bigger is always better - in the strictest sense of the word, with absolutely no regard whatsoever to the relative quality within types.

And note that I never tried to compare the APP2 directly to any over-ear headphone. When I slammed the WH-1000XM4, I compared it to other over-ear full-sized headphones, not the APP2.

 

[ubs28]

Sounds like you dislike all in-ear 'phones of any kind. You just assume that bigger is always better - in the strictest sense of the word, with absolutely no regard whatsoever to the relative quality within types.

I don't assume anything, I own all those IEM's and full sized headphones. But saying these APP2 are better than full sized headphone (even wired)? Just the tinny deep inside my head "soundstage" is already annoying to me.

And it's just physics. None of my headphones can come close to my speakers also, especially with movies.

And I don't dislike IEM's, I need them for the gym and running. They get alot of use everyday. And for IEM's, the Sennheiser Momentum True Wireless 3 is better as it has these "wings" for a much more secure fit than the APP2. The fit is improved with the APP2 over the APP1, but it is not on the same level as the Sennheiser's, which is important for exercise use.

 

[ubs28]

Still going to disagree. I had the APP2 and APM at the same time, and I preferred the APP2 for music and for movies with spatial audio.

Really? Even with movies and spatial audio? Well, if you can't hear the difference between the two, then it's best that you sold the APM indeed.

 

[angelom]

The XM4 is a different headphone, it doesn't even sound like the XM3. The XM3 is not all bass, no mids and no highs post-EQ. The bass and mids are fine post-EQ. It has a roll off on the highs still, but who cares for $99. It's not an audiophile headphone

I owning the XM3 and XM4 headphones at the same time and the sound is so very, very similar that I returning the XM4 and I still owning the XM3 (only for the excellent ANC) AND the FR graphs proving this too about the sound.

You speak about annoying comments by me or other people. Some of your comments are not only annoying but ridiculous, like XM3 and XM4 comparison. And saying that comparing IEMs to full size headphones is like comparing full size headphones to speakers is one more of those ridiculous comments.

 

[ubs28]

I owning the XM3 and XM4 at the same time and the sound is so very, very similar that I returning the XM4 and I still owning the XM3 (only for the excellent ANC) AND the FR graphs proving this too about the sound.

You speak about annoying comments by me or other people. Some of your comments are not only annoying but ridiculous, like XM3 and XM4 comparison. And saying that comparing IEMs to full size headphones is like comparing full size headphones to speakers is one more of those ridiculous comments.

You need to learn how to use EQ. And the XM3 is not the same headphone as the XM4, you can check the measurements on Rtings that changes were made. So the "I tried to EQ my XM4 and it didn't work so you cannot EQ the XM3 to be balanced is a non-sense argument".

And I'm not the one who is saying the APP2 is better than full-sized headphones. You guys are.

And the $99 XM3 post-EQ (which you need to learn how to do), is even better than the APP2. The difference in soundstage (and the XM3 doesn't even have a good soundstage to begin with) is quite big.

 

[angelom]

You need to learn how to use EQ. All I am hearing is that you cannot EQ at all. And the XM3 is not the same headphone as the XM4, you can check the measurements on Rtings that changes were made.

And I'm not the one who is saying the APP2 is better than full-sized headphones.

And my $99 XM3 post-EQ (which you need to learn how to do), is even better than the APP2.

I never speaking about EQ so don’t assume anything you don’t know at all.

I never saying that the APP 2 is better than ALL headphones. I saying that it’s better than many earphones and headphones, wired or not. I’m not the only person (one reputable reviewer too, by the way) that preferring the APP 2 to the sound of the AirPods Max.

And, like I saying before, the graphs are proving that the XM3 and XM4 FR graphs are very, very similar AND my ears proving this too when I have both at the same time.

But please continue with your “it’s not even funny” posts repeating how everyone else is wrong and deaf and/or ignorant because they think the APP 2 have very good sound, and maybe for ‘daring’ saying they think the APP2 sound quality is better than APM.

 

[ubs28]

I never speaking about EQ so don’t assume anything you don’t know at all.

I never saying that the APP 2 is better than ALL headphones. I saying that it’s better than many earphones and headphones, wired or not. I’m not the only person (one reputable reviewer too, by the way) that preferring the APP 2 to the sound of the AirPods Max.

And, like I saying before, the graphs are proving that the XM3 and XM4 FR graphs are very, very similar AND my ears proving this too when I have both at the same time.

But please continue with your “it’s not even funny” posts repeating how everyone else is wrong and deaf and/or ignorant because they think the APP 2 have very good sound, and maybe for ‘daring’ saying they think the AAP2 sound quality is better than APM.

First of all:
1. I was talking about the XM3 post-EQ, which means after EQ to have the sound balanced (besides the treble roll off which is not fixable). Why bring up how it sounds without any EQ?
2. The XM4 and XM3 are different headphones, you can see it in the measurements on Rtings. So anything you say about the XM4, doesn't apply to the XM3.
3. Paid reviewers are not reputable. They are paid shills. They have financial incentives to talk about products in a certain way.
4. The APP2 is better than many full-sized headphones even wired, when it even struggles to beat my $99 XM3 post-EQ? xD The difference to reproduce space and the overall soundstage is quite big.

And the $99 XM3 is the worst full-sized headphone I have.

 

[angelom]

First of all:
1. I was talking about the XM3 post-EQ, which means after EQ to have the sound balanced (besides the treble roll off which is not fixable). Why bring up how it sounds without any EQ?
2. The XM4 and XM3 are different headphones, you can see it in the measurements on Rtings. So anything you say about the XM4, doesn't apply to the XM3.
3. Paid reviewers are not reputable. They are paid shills. They have financial incentives to talk about products in a certain way.
4. The APP2 is better than many full-sized headphones even wired, when it even struggles to beat my $99 XM3 post-EQ? xD

And the $99 XM3 is literally the worst full-sized headphone I have.

I know exactly what a reputable AND credible reviewer is, like Tyll Hertsens who unfortunately don’t doing reviews anymore. And I know VERY well what paid ‘reviews’ are AND I know exactly what shills are.

And one of this reputable reviewers saying he isn’t planning doing a review of the APP2 but is so surprised how good is that he deciding doing the review. And for your information, this person is normally reviewing very expensive equipment, including DACs and speakers.

About the rest of your post, I will saying nothing because, honestly, I don’t want repeating things and because is very boring and evidently useless.

 

[ubs28]

I know exactly what a reputable AND credible reviewer is, like Tyll Hertsens who unfortunately don’t doing reviews anymore. And I know VERY well what paid ‘reviews’ are AND I know exactly what shills are.

And one of this reputable reviewers saying he isn’t planning doing a review of the APP2 but is so surprised how good is that he deciding doing the review. And for your information this person reviewing very expensive equipment, including DACs and speakers.

About the rest of your post, I will saying nothing because, honestly, I don’t want repeating things and is very boring and evidently useless.

People who make money making reviews are always motivated by financial incentives. It doesn't matter if they are reviewing $10.000 DAC's or $250.000 speakers.

Really, don't glorify all those reviewers.