[oogabooga]

I've spent the past few hours trying to compare the Apogee Mini-Dac (optical) to the E-MU 0404 USB (via USB), using my Macbook Pro and CD's or ALAC as source (24/96), and TF10s for IEMs.

I can't tell a difference between either DAC, using either the HP outs or the line outs to my XM5. They both sound better than the MBP's DAC and my XM5's DAC, in that they have virtually no hiss and less distortion. However, I don't think I could tell the difference between the E-MU and the Apogee.

Now, I'm stubborn but I'm convinced there is a difference that I am somehow "missing", as I've inferred as much from reading so much about those DACs on here. The scientist in me wants to know what's going on, what am I missing, why is the Apogee twice the cost, although there's a tiny voice in the back of my head saying "shut up and use the cheaper DAC!" Any suggestions for some definitive tests to settle the issue? I have both DACs on loan for a week.

Thanks

 

[Happy Camper]

Shut up and use the cheaper DAC.

 

[digger945]

What your missing is the price difference.
Suggestion? Yea, plug 'em into a tube amp(or send the Apogee to me for further evaluation

).

 

[apatN]

Upgrade your headphones and amp.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oogabooga /img/forum/go_quote.gif The scientist in me wants to know what's going on, what am I missing, why is the Apogee twice the cost, although there's a tiny voice in the back of my head saying "shut up and use the cheaper DAC!" Any suggestions for some definitive tests to settle the issue? I have both DACs on loan for a week. Thanks

Sure, there is a relatively easy way to settle it beyond doubt.

Take a CD and rip a track to WAV format. Get hold of a 2nd computer with recording capability. Record from one computer to the other using both DACs and you now have 3 different WAV files. Use an Audio editor such as Audacity to make sure all 3 tracks are the same length and aligned down to one sample.

Now run AudioDiffmaker using

original WAV and EMU
original WAV and Apogee

This will give you a profile of the differences between the WAV and the recordings - the one with the flatter line is the least divergent from the source.

Or run FooBar's ABX comparator and see if you can tell a difference between any two of the WAV files.

 

[ph0rk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure, there is a relatively easy way to settle it beyond doubt. Take a CD and rip a track to WAV format. Get hold of a 2nd computer with recording capability. Record from one computer to the other using both DACs and you now have 3 different WAV files. Use an Audio editor such as Audacity to make sure all 3 tracks are the same length and aligned down to one sample. Now run AudioDiffmaker using original WAV and EMU original WAV and Apogee This will give you a profile of the differences between the WAV and the recordings - the one with the flatter line is the least divergent from the source. Or run FooBar's ABX comparator and see if you can tell a difference between any two of the WAV files.

Hopefully the ADC in the second computer is resolving enough to show the differences

 

[oogabooga]

I did try that using two Macbooks. I had a heck of a time getting any sort of gain matching going on, and I doubt my laptops line-in is really up to that task. Hopefully those HD600's I'm getting soon will better show any differences

 

[slwiser]

All I would suggest would be to check your computer media player setup. If you were using windows this would be an obvious place to check out since windows can mess with the music so much but your using a MAC so I don't know how it's setup could effect your setup.

 

[oogabooga]

slwiser - the gain issue was more a matter of differences in the line-outs of the two DACs I think - the Macbook's settings weren't changed between tests.

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oogabooga /img/forum/go_quote.gif slwiser - the gain issue was more a matter of differences in the line-outs of the two DACs I think - the Macbook's settings weren't changed between tests.

With my setup, Windows if I am not careful, may resample everything to a lower standard such that everything would sound the same. This is the type of mess that I was getting at. I don't know if you have a bit-perfect out setup yet.

 

[ph0rk]

It is a good deal easier to get bitperfect output by "accident" with a mac.

Assuming 16/44.1 content, if you are really worried about it you'd need to set both interfaces to 44.1 Khz in audio midi setup (Applications->Utilities).

I don't think you can force the 0404 to use 16 bit over 24 bit without extra software, but I don't think it requires resampling to play 16 bit content over a 24 bit interface.

 

[melomaniac]

with newer Apples and newer DACs, you can get 24/96 - which ought to be nice as long as you have high-q files also. of course it's still possible, I suppose, to hear differences between an internal sound-card (vibrations? interferences?) and an external DAC.