[Pedro83]

Is this Groove considered on the bright side? I'm looking at alternatives from the meridian explorer2, it seems well documented the groove is better than the explorer dac/hpa. I use Beyer T5p and my concern would be the sabre 9018 sounding too bright, or does the amp tame things down? 
 
Any advice greatly welcomed. 
 
Regards.
 
Pedro

 

[sheldaze]

  Is this Groove considered on the bright side? I'm looking at alternatives from the meridian explorer2, it seems well documented the groove is better than the explorer dac/hpa. I use Beyer T5p and my concern would be the sabre 9018 sounding too bright, or does the amp tame things down? 
 
Any advice greatly welcomed. 
 
Regards.
 
Pedro

No! Not bright at all!
 
The issues with the Groove are pairing it with a heavy-enough load. It loved the 300 ohm impedance of my HD650 headphones. It did not like the 24 ohm, and very easy to drive, Denon AH-D2000 headphones.  The Groove also pairs well with some of the more current-heavy loads. I would guess and AKG would sound nice. I was shocked when I borrowed a Sony VR-6 how much the sound improved through the Groove. And I like it on HiFiMan headphones.
 
I've no clue what the chipset is in the Groove?
 
EDIT: It says ESS, but there's no glare. I think it is an ES9006 Sabre.

 

[tranceFusion]

I'm looking at the HD650 + Groove combo for $499..
 
I've been wanting to get the HD650. Is this a good DAC/Amp to drive them if I don't care about portability? Or are people only excited about the Groove because it is small and doesn't require AC power? Would I be better off with a Schiit combo?

 

[RichardSumilang]

  I'm looking at the HD650 + Groove combo for $499..
 
I've been wanting to get the HD650. Is this a good DAC/Amp to drive them if I don't care about portability? Or are people only excited about the Groove because it is small and doesn't require AC power? Would I be better off with a Schiit combo?

I like it because I personally think it sounds great. It's one of my favorites. The portability part of it is cool too but not the reason why I bought it. A matter of fact it's always sitting just in one place for me

 

[adg4]

  Just got an Apogee Groove.  
 
It works with my Samsung Note 4 (T-Mobile with Android 4.4.4) without a battery + usb cable splitter adapter.  
 
The Groove's built in amp is pretty terrible, at least with IEM's like my JH Audio Layla.  The sound is heavily veiled, almost muffled sounding, with the soundstage and imaging really smeared.  It's basically like putting cotton balls in your ears.  Using the headphone out from the Groove to my Pico Power greatly improves the sound.   So perhaps the Groove does not play nice with multi balanced armatures like in custom IEM's.  
 
I also dislike that Windows drivers are not available without registering.  I question the legality of such a maneuver, as it limits the functionality of their product; and (at least in California) registering a product is not required for full warranty coverage claims.  Not having a driver for a product is basically not delivering a complete product as advertised.  
I don't see the point of them limiting the release of Windows drivers, other than to limit 2nd hand sales of their Groove.

 
I just ordered the HD650 + Groove combo from Adorama and plan to use the Groove with my existing HD650's and will sell the new pair of headphones. However, the second pair of headphones I'd like to use with the Groove are Shure SE535's. In anticipation of the Groove, I was doing some searching and discovered this article on the Apogee website:
 
http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/groove/multi-driver-balanced-armature-iems-with-groove/
 
It says: "Apogee does not recommend the Apogee Groove for use with multi-driver balanced armature in-ear monitors. Due to the design of the balanced armature drivers and crossover networks used in this type of headphone, the Groove’s Constant Current Drive amplifier technology may result in uneven frequency response when used with certain models."
 
I'm wondering if that's the reason your IEMs didn't seem to work well with the Groove. Also, I know my SE535's have multiple drivers, but are they also balanced armature?

 

[RedJohn456]

   
I just ordered the HD650 + Groove combo from Adorama and plan to use the Groove with my existing HD650's and will sell the new pair of headphones. However, the second pair of headphones I'd like to use with the Groove are Shure SE535's. In anticipation of the Groove, I was doing some searching and discovered this article on the Apogee website:
 
http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/groove/multi-driver-balanced-armature-iems-with-groove/
 
It says: "Apogee does not recommend the Apogee Groove for use with multi-driver balanced armature in-ear monitors. Due to the design of the balanced armature drivers and crossover networks used in this type of headphone, the Groove’s Constant Current Drive amplifier technology may result in uneven frequency response when used with certain models."
 
I'm wondering if that's the reason your IEMs didn't seem to work well with the Groove. Also, I know my SE535's have multiple drivers, but are they also balanced armature?

My Sony Z5 sounded weird for the same reason. Treble was extremely rolled off and it sounded veiled using with the groove. I have both the Groove and Geek Out V2 on hand, and if I were to only keep one, hands down it will be the V2. Sounds noticeably better, more consistent amp and I don't have to worry about low impedance headphones sounding weird on the V2 as compared to the groove.

 

[zenpunk]

I also agree that sadly the Groove doesn't sound very good with multi-drivers/BA. But it is unbelievable with my VE Zen and I am considering that combo as an end game for myself. You can check my profile to see I have tried quite some headphones/iems. I have sold all my full-size headphones, more for practical reasons to be frank, but I have little regrets and I don't feel like I am missing much.

 

[RedJohn456]

  I also agree that sadly the Groove doesn't sound very good with multi-drivers/BA. But it is unbelievable with my VE Zen and I am considering that combo as an end game for myself. You can check my profile to see I have tried quite some headphones/iems. I have sold all my full-size headphones, more for practical reasons to be frank, but I have little regrets and I don't feel like I am missing much.

I have the Zen as well (along with the rest of the VE family), I know how you feel  They sound fantastic with the groove, but that is because its really high Z (320 ohms?). 
 
PS If you think the Zen is good, you're in for a treat in the upcoming weeks
 
I wish the groove had a better dac and regular amp option. I am really looking forward to the inevitable groove 2 which should be fantastic with a few tweaks!

 

[blse59]

http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/groove/windows-what-is-the-usb-device-streaming-latency-values/
 
What effect would tweaking the latency settings have on the sound? For the Groove, the software defaults to "safe" or 16 ms.

 

[tumburu]

No effects on the sound itself, but lower latencies would tax the cpu more. If the computer can't handle very low latencies there will be drop-outs in sound.

 

[studiom]

Groove sounds great driving my LCD-XC's - very impressed.  However, my SE 846's sound plain wrong driven via the Groove.  Low end is horrid mids are non existent and top end is weird.  Definitely not designed for multi driver ear phones...

 

[RedJohn456]

 
Groove sounds great driving my LCD-XC's - very impressed.  However, my SE 846's sound plain wrong driven via the Groove.  Low end is horrid mids are non existent and top end is weird.  Definitely not designed for multi driver ear phones...

 
http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/groove/multi-driver-balanced-armature-iems-with-groove/
 
Groove doesn't play nice with multi BA iems

 

[emilsoft]

I just ordered the Apogee Groove to use with my Focal Spirit Pro headphones. My expectations are quite high this being from Apogee, I was hoping for a giant killer but reading some of the posts here I'm not convinced - there's some mixed feelings. Currently I'm using the IFI nano iDSD, which is OK for the money, hopefully the groove will improve on it.  Maybe one day I will find a portable dac, reasonably priced, that can match my Lavry DA11.

 

[Jeremy]

  I just ordered the Apogee Groove to use with my Focal Spirit Pro headphones. My expectations are quite high this being from Apogee, I was hoping for a giant killer but reading some of the posts here I'm not convinced - there's some mixed feelings. Currently I'm using the IFI nano iDSD, which is OK for the money, hopefully the groove will improve on it.  Maybe one day I will find a portable dac, reasonably priced, that can match my Lavry DA11.

I have the Lavry DA11 and love it. I also had the Apogee Grove but returned it. It's really good for a portable DAC/amp combo but does not match the DA11. If you're looking for a giant killer that could replace the Lavry DA11, you should try the Geek Out V2. It is significantly better than the Apogee Groove, but not as pretty, and may even surpass the Lavry DA11 as a DAC. I'm still undecided.

 

[emilsoft]

 
I have the Lavry DA11 and love it. I also had the Apogee Grove but returned it. It's really good for a portable DAC/amp combo but does not match the DA11. If you're looking for a giant killer that could replace the Lavry DA11, you should try the Geek Out V2. It is significantly better than the Apogee Groove, but not as pretty, and may even surpass the Lavry DA11 as a DAC. I'm still undecided.

Thanks for your opinion. The Lavry DA11 in addition to having a reference dac (at it's best via coax in, not usb) has an excellent headphone amplifier which grips and dominates any headphone I tried, so if the Geek out v2 comes close to it then that is an amazing achievement. I will give the Groove a chance, perhaps it's a matter of a good headphone match with what seems it's picky headphone amplifier, and I've spotted Apogee themselves using Focal Spirit Pros when demoing it on some videos on youtube, so who knows. If that doesn't work out maybe I will try the Geek out v2 or Celsus Sound Companion One.