[tdockweiler]

  I am Considering Upgrading From the Q701s to K712s for Better Low End Sound:
 
Should I just replace my headphone amp and keep my Q701s?
 
 
 
After all, the low end on the Q701s is affected by the amp which is driving them. I'm currently driving them via my Audio GD NFB-15, which is a beautiful sounding amp – but something about the synergy between it and the Q701s means there is a lack of low end in the sound. When I plugged the Q701s into my Cambridge Stereo Integrated 550a to see if this would make any difference to the low end, I discovered it did. Great bass, shame about the rest of the sound. 
 
 
 
I'm pretty happy with my Q701s – however I am looking for depth and bass.
 
I am therefore looking for a solution where I can obtain a sound with more low end... but I am not willing to mod the headphones.
 
 
I'm looking at alternative solutions, and some advice in regards to which might be best:
 
> To change the amp to one that has a better synergy to the Q701s? Synergy definitely makes a difference – paired with my Cambridge 550a amp, they create a really good low end. I've heard the iFI iCan is a good headphone amp for added bass on the Q701s. Another option might be to use the Schitt Lyr with some appropriate Tubes. If a new amp is the best way to go, could anyone advise or suggest the best amp(s) to boost the Q701s?
 
> Or perhaps I should get a new pair of headphones? The K712s have a great low end and may offer a better solution... However, I am concerned that because of the 3db bass increase offered by these headphones, I might loose the neutral sound that I have with the Q701s. Does the 3db bass increase make the K712 less neutral?

 
Don't buy a new amp expecting extra bass. Any amp that magically adds extra bass is probably a piece of junk and not worth using. Unless it has a built in bass boost like the ican.
Without a bass boost, I doubt the M-Stage or any other solid state amp would give you the bass you're looking for.
 
The K712's are actually probably MORE neutral than the stock Q701s. I don't think I could call the Q701's bass really neutral, but close. Not really lacking too badly.
 
One idea is to just buy some K712 pads. They're pricy, but might give you a little extra bass. They just twist on and on easily. You can call the AKG parts department. Better than buying a new amp or headphone.
 
You should just force yourself to try the bass port mod and be done with it. It's not hard at all and I know you said you don't want to do that.

 

[Boogirl]

   
Don't buy a new amp expecting extra bass. Any amp that magically adds extra bass is probably a piece of junk and not worth using. Unless it has a built in bass boost like the ican.
Without a bass boost, I doubt the M-Stage or any other solid state amp would give you the bass you're looking for.
 
The K712's are actually probably MORE neutral than the stock Q701s. I don't think I could call the Q701's bass really neutral, but close. Not really lacking too badly.
 
One idea is to just buy some K712 pads. They're pricy, but might give you a little extra bass. They just twist on and on easily. You can call the AKG parts department. Better than buying a new amp or headphone.
 
You should just force yourself to try the bass port mod and be done with it. It's not hard at all and I know you said you don't want to do that.

Thank you for this reply.
 
Since a solid state amp is not advisable for more low end, then how about if I go for a tube amp like a Schiit Lyr2 and tube it appropriately? A poster states that Amperex Fat Bottle tubes in the Lyr2 makes his Q701s have a really bass deep bass.  

 

[AprilRyan]

   
My apologies, but I have the E18, and not the E17.  I have other items I work with that are model number 17 and jacked this up.    In any case, I was under the impression that the E18 has a flatter response while the E17 might be a bit warmer.

I've read in this, and in other threads, some comments that the E18 does not pair or match well with the Q701. It's good to finally read someone who likes the combination as this will be the pair that I will be using, as soon as my Q701 arrives.

 

[gr34td3str0y3r]

Would ya'll mind taking a look at this amp/dac? http://www.teac.com/product/ai-301da/
The TEAC AI-301DA
 
It says it powers 100mw @32 ohms per channel. 
Is this enough to power my Q701s? 
 
I have no idea what that is at the 701s 60ohms. 
 
people have told me ATLEAST 250 mw is needed! yet It says right there that 701s should never get more than 200mw?
 
I think somewhere in this thread some calculated that only 25mw (per channel? total?) is needed. 
 
Cheers! 
 
Edit: Can someone translate this for me. This is what my current VERY cheap "surround sound" amp puts out in the head phone output: 450 mV/30 Ω (1 kHz, 200 mV) 

 

[northerndude]

Hey,  thanks for informed response.  
Ill admit that the meaningfulness of the specs being discussed is totally over my head at this point (I guess specifically output impedance / damping factor).  I typically try to do lots of research before asking questions but I would appreciate a simple explanation of the importance of impedance ratios.  Ive done some looking around and am still relatively lost as I don't have the background.  

 

[jodgey4]

You want the impedance of the headphones to be at least 8 times higher than the output impedance of the amp, so that things sound correct. If the amp's impedance is too high, you'll get a bloated sound wherever the impedance of the headphones is highest (it changes with frequency on most headphones) - usually the bass. Look at the cans here to see what I mean- http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=2931&graphID[]=863&graphID[]=963&graphID[]=2861&scale=30. The Q701 gets a lift in the treble - adding to an already bright sound.

 

[Chris J]

Would ya'll mind taking a look at this amp/dac? http://www.teac.com/product/ai-301da/
The TEAC AI-301DA

It says it powers 100mw @32 ohms per channel. 
Is this enough to power my Q701s? 

I have no idea what that is at the 701s 60ohms. 

people have told me ATLEAST 250 mw is needed! yet It says right there that 701s should never get more than 200mw?

I think somewhere in this thread some calculated that only 25mw (per channel? total?) is needed. 

Cheers! 

Edit: Can someone translate this for me. This is what my current VERY cheap "surround sound" amp puts out in the head phone output: 450 mV/30 Ω (1 kHz, 200 mV) 

Typically, 100 mW into 32 Ohm's translates into 50 mW into a 64 Ohm load. Close enough to 62 Ohms!
Believe it or not, 1 mW supports a fairly loud average listening level.
And if your average listening level is 1 mW, then 10 mW gives you 10 dB of headroom, 40 mW gives you 16 dB of headroom.

For reference: 1.68 mW = 90 dB SPL, from Innerfidelity

 

[Chris J]

Edit: Can someone translate this for me. This is what my current VERY cheap "surround sound" amp puts out in the head phone output: 450 mV/30 Ω (1 kHz, 200 mV) 

Assuming it also can drive 450 mV into a 62 Ohm headphone AND 450 mV is full output, then the amp outputs 3.3 mW into your Q701s.

 

[gr34td3str0y3r]

Assuming it also can drive 450 mV into a 62 Ohm headphone AND 450 mV is full output, then the amp outputs 3.3 mW into your Q701s.

well. it drives my AKGs, not very well, but it drives them decently enough. 100mw should be fine. 

 

[Head Injury]

  well. it drives my AKGs, not very well, but it drives them decently enough. 100mw should be fine. 

It will drive it fine up to the point where it clips, which at 450 mV and 3.3 mW would be 93 to 98 dB depending on whether you trust manufacturer specs or Tyll's measurements.
 
This is a pretty low volume, possibly enough for modern loud recordings at a safe average volume of 80 dB, but crank the peaks up on dynamic stuff and you'll get tons of distortion. It's possible that amp does more than 450 mV at 62 ohms though, or you meant 450 mW instead.
 
100 mW should be plenty, that's a volume between 108 and 113 dB depending on the specs you trust. If you can get by with 3.3 mW, 100 will blow your ears off

 

[buson160man]

We ain't disagreein', sir

. The headphones are dry and so is the amp. I like heading the music as it's intended... Not from overly warm or cold setups. I gave a rather neutral and detailed DAC/amp for this reason, with an ES9018 implementation.

I would not call the 701 dry sounding. It is just as I said before neutral in most ways. The benchmark is analytical sounding .I use a recapped vintage concept 16.5 monster vintage receiver from the late seventies and the 701s do have bass when sufficiently powered. Of course the monster receiver has way more power than most any headphone amp that I have heard .I have become a big fan of these vintage monster receivers they power headphones with a sense of power that I just do not hear from headphone amps. I have had my k701s since august of 2009 and I have to say that if I want to hear what a recording sounds like it is the most honest headphone that I own. I have a lcd2 v2 and while it sounds very nice it rarely sounds if ever out of sorts . The k 701 is definitely more neutral sounding than the audeze lcd v2 . If you play poor recordings they definitely let you know that the recording is poor. On the other hand if you play good recordings they can sound mighty nice on the 701s when sufficiently amped . I find the lcd2 to be not a very good headphone for revealing the sound of the space the recording was done at . The akg is pretty revealing in that sense.

 

[ReaperX]

What would be the best choice in your opinion?
 
Audio GD NFB 15,Schiit Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber or Fostex HP A4?

 

[Chris J]

What would be the best choice in your opinion?

Audio GD NFB 15,Schiit Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber or Fostex HP A4?

Matrix M Stage headphone amp
or
Matrix Quattro headphone amp!

Pair it with the Beresford Caiman II DAC.

 

[ReaperX]

Matrix M Stage headphone amp
or
Matrix Quattro headphone amp!

Pair it with the Beresford Caiman II DAC.

These are out of my budget!
 
What about Matrix Mstage HPA2 with usb dac?

 

[Chris J]

These are out of my budget!

What about Matrix Mstage HPA2 with usb dac?

Sorry!
I've never heard the USB DAC in the HPA2.

You can often find a used Matrix M Stage amp for approx. $150.