[Mython]

Hi, I'm currently awaiting delivery of a pair of UM Miracles. I'm not a wealthy man (I shocked myself at stretching to so high a price for a pair of IEMs, and it's going to take me quite some time to pay off the credit card bill for them).
 
However, I'm curious  - yes, I appreciate that the Miracles are a very revealing and transparent piece of audio gear, that are easily capable of 'scaling' with whatever high-quality source gear I choose to feed them with. I get it. That's understood.
 
I really love my Cowon J3 and am not 'dissatisfied' with it. BUT, nonetheless, I am curious as to how the J3 really compares to the HiFiMan 801. Is the 801 that much better sounding than the J3? I've read that the 801 is considered by some to be 'warmer' sounding than the J3, and I've read remarks that the 801 has a nice soundstage (particularly with a 'GAME' module...??). But the J3 isn't a piece of junk - sure, it's mass-market but it's sound quality is still worthy of some respect.
 
Won't deny that I'm not particularly enamoured with the chunky, bulky chassis of the 801, or the tiny screen etc., and fundamentally, I'm not interested in what high-end components the 801 uses, I'm just talking about where the 'rubber meets the road' - sound quality.
 
Therefore, I'd appreciate any constructive, comparative comments from those of you with firsthand experience of this device. I know many people use iPods with separate DACs and separate Amps, but for me, that is overkill and WAY too bulky - I don't want something that is only vaguely portable in the sense of transporting it from the desk at home to the office desk and then back home again; I want something that is PROPERLY portable and will sensibly fit in a jacket pocket, to be used whilst walking around town. From reading around, it seems as though the only viable upgrade to a J3 is probably an 801, since Colorfly, S-Flo and other niche specialist players of a similar ilk all seem to be severely flawed, in one or more ways (although, if Amazon.co.uk reviews of Colorfly C4 are to be believed, perhaps I'm being too quick to dismiss the Colorfly..?).
 
Also, does anyone know where I can obtain a home demo (for a few days) of an 801 in the UK? I understand a deposit may be required, of course. I know Ampcity.co.uk will supply the 801 but they appear to do this only on special order, so I very much doubt a several-day home-demo would be on the cards from them, even though they do offer this kind of service for UM IEMs.
 
I'm 'all-ears', folks, please enlighten me... 

 
Thanks.

 

[caracara08]

i tried the 601 a while back. had a hissing issue, the UI is... barely that. and the size is a lot bigger than the j3.  i think the j3 does everything well. size, sound, battery life, ui,, etc. if youre obsessed with the last 5-10% sq then maybe but no thanks for me.  the UI alone is enough for me.

 

[Mython]

Quote:

i tried the 601 a while back. had a hissing issue

I wonder if this might (partly) relate to you perhaps using a particularly low impedance IEM/headphone?
 
I think the UM Miracles are something in the region of 16ohms, which doesn't seem to be particularly high and might, therefore, pose problems for some portable players...
 


Quote:

 i think the j3 does everything well. size, sound, battery life, ui,, etc. if youre obsessed with the last 5-10% sq then maybe but no thanks for me.  the UI alone is enough for me.

I totally agree about the J3 - I've always liked mine and been happy with virtually everything about it. It covers a lot of bases extremely well. As I said, I'm not motivated to leave the J3 behind out of dissatisfaction, it's more a case of curiosity about what I might (or might not) be missing in higher-end players such as the 801 and the Colorfly C4. It may be a case of 'diminishing returns', and not worth me splashing-out 550 quid (850 US dollars). Just want to hear some people's personal experiences.
Thanks for your input.
 

 

[caracara08]

Quote:

I wonder if this might (partly) relate to you perhaps using a particularly low impedance IEM/headphone?
 
I think the UM Miracles are something in the region of 16ohms, which doesn't seem to be particularly high and might, therefore, pose problems for some portable players...
 



I totally agree about the J3 - I've always liked mine and been happy with virtually everything about it. It covers a lot of bases extremely well. As I said, I'm not motivated to leave the J3 behind out of dissatisfaction, it's more a case of curiosity about what I might (or might not) be missing in higher-end players such as the 801 and the Colorfly C4. It may be a case of 'diminishing returns', and not worth me splashing-out 550 quid (850 US dollars). Just want to hear some people's personal experiences.
Thanks for your input.
 

i was using jh16s.  in any case, buy one used and resell if it you dont like it.  maybe you could do a comparison! 
 

 

[randomstranger]

I use my hm-801 to drive my Sennheiser HD 800s for portable use as well as a DAC for my laptop.  You will NEED the included "Game" module with your IEMs since the hm-801 was designed to work with hard to drive headphones.  You just need to unscrew four screws and pop in the module as if it was a piece of RAM.  After that you will be good to go. 
 
But $800 usd is a lot to ask for this system.  If you are happy with your current system, then there really is no need to use the hm-801 since it was designed to drive high impedance headphones and the only equivalent to it in sound quality is an Ipod>CLAS>71B/Continental/Porta Tube or Ipod>HP-P1.  But if you need a 16/44 USB DAC as well as a nice portable set up, this is your only option.  If you have the chance to try out the hm-801 before you buy it, I would recommend that.  I love the death out my hm-801 and I use it easily 10 hours a day but there might be more economical options out there for you.

 

[Somnambulist]

Wait for Rockbox for Hifiman to reach a more stable build. Buy one (there's a successor to the 801 in the works), put RB on (superior UI to stock, gapless etc), see if you like it. If you don't, reset to original firmware and return for a refund. You'll pay for the shipping back, but nothing beats using your own ears to decide how you feel about a bit of gear, although knowing someone on here who gives impressions of things you've both tried that are very similar to your own is also helpful.

 

[Mython]

Quote:

i was using jh16s.  in any case, buy one used and resell if it you dont like it.  maybe you could do a comparison! 
 

Thanks, caracara08.
 
Sadly, as I remarked earlier, I'm not a wealthy man, so I simply cannot risk shelling out the cash to buy one, in the very risky (and probably misguided, in the current financial climate) assumption that I'll be able to sell it on without significant loss if I dislike it. I'm not willing to unfairly mess a dealer around by buying and then returning for a refund, either. I feel that's disingenuous, but that's just me Each person views such things differently, and on the rare occasions I've ever done that in the past, I've always felt somewhat uncomfortable with it all, afterwards.
 
Thanks for the heads-up about the hiss with the 601+JH16 combination, though, that's useful information.

 

[Mython]

Quote:

I use my hm-801 to drive my Sennheiser HD 800s for portable use...

 
I bet that setup sounds fabulous! Must be surreal experiencing such high quality sound whilst you're mobile...
 
 


Quote:

You will NEED the included "Game" module with your IEMs since the hm-801 was designed to work with hard to drive headphones.

Yes, I had come to the impression, from reading various posts, that the 'Game' module is considered pretty-much a 'non-optional' necessity, which, of course, adds yet more to the already-significant outlay for an 801.
 
 
 


Quote:

Originally Posted by randomstranger /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
If you are happy with your current system, then there really is no need to use the hm-801 since it was designed to drive high impedance headphones and the only equivalent to it in sound quality is an Ipod>CLAS>71B/Continental/Porta Tube or Ipod>HP-P1. 

 
I need to wait until I receive my very-revealing UM Miracles before I can come to a decision as to whether the Cowon J3 is embarrassed by the Miracles or if they can co-exist happily (I'm not forgetting what an important part of the equation the actual source files themselves are, BTW).
 
As far as the equivalent iPod>CLAS>71B or iPod>Fostex is concerned, they seem to me to be way too bulky for frequent (daily) fully-portable use. OK if you're in a car (I'm not), but prohibitively-cumbersome in my jacket pocket, walking around town and commuting to and from work... I don't doubt that they sound great, though.
 
 
 


Quote:

 
But $800 usd is a lot to ask for this system.  ...If you have the chance to try out the hm-801 before you buy it, I would recommend that.  I love the death out my hm-801 and I use it easily 10 hours a day but there might be more economical options out there for you.

What do you see (potentially) as a more economical option that would still represent a worthwhile advance over the SQ of the Cowon J3?
 
Thanks a lot of your input

 

[Mython]

Quote:

Wait for Rockbox for Hifiman to reach a more stable build. Buy one (there's a successor to the 801 in the works), put RB on (superior UI to stock, gapless etc), see if you like it. If you don't, reset to original firmware and return for a refund. You'll pay for the shipping back, but nothing beats using your own ears to decide how you feel about a bit of gear, although knowing someone on here who gives impressions of things you've both tried that are very similar to your own is also helpful.

Thanks - I notice you are in the UK - do you know of anywhere that offers home demos for a couple of days, without requiring purchase followed by refund? I'm uncomfortable with that kind of scenario, for the sake of both parties... - is AmpCity the only 801 stockist in the UK?
 
Also, can you point me in the direction of any early info on the 801 successor you mention?
 
Thanks.
 

 

[david1978jp]

Let's talk about how one "feels" on the subject of money. If you "feel" your J3 is $250 worth; 801 will "feel" like $350. Diminision Returns is that funny.  Ah, you're waiting for UM Miracles, it may be just the ticket --  no need to buy anything else.

 

[Mython]

Well, I'll be very happy if the Miracles absolutely sing with the J3.
 
Equally, though, I won't resent saving up for a more expensive source than the J3 if that proves necessary.
 
The point is simply that if I do need to save up circa $800, then I just want that saving to be clearly worthwhile rather than improving only '10%' over the Cowon J3 SQ. There's diminishing returns and then there's negligible returns - the latter is something I can do without saving my hard-earned cash for! 

 

[estreeter]

Anytime you spend anything over $500 there will always be a sinking feeling in there somewhere, particularly for those of us who routinely have to wait 2 weeks for delivery, but if you are happy with what you have now, why push your own lust buttons further ?
 
I want the HM-801+balanced module as badly as anyone here, but I also like the sensation (illusion ?) of having a few dollars in the bank in case I lose my job - that is exactly the same 'real world' pain that virtually everyone on HF is faced with. Just enjoy the Miracles - by all accounts an exceptional product - and don't lie awake at night wondering about what you might be 'missing out on' : that cycle never ends. I'm willing to bet that by the time you can comfortably afford the HM-801, something else will be tugging at your wallet strings - that's Head-Fi, where we only have to spend 30% of the cost of a basic speaker system to have 'good sound', but we keep spending that 30% repeatedly .....

 

[Somnambulist]

No idea on home demos or stockists other than AmpCity, however under UK distance selling regulations, there is nothing to stop you returning a product within a couple of weeks if you're not happy with it. Obviously if you order lots of things from one place and return them all the time they might kick up a fuss, but you're well within your rights to return the 801 if you don't feel it's a worth investment.
 
There's only been one or two mentions of the successor for the 801 from high-level posters who know Fang. I can't think of which thread they were in. It may be worth trying something like a 602, which is less money than the 801 to give you a feel for the Hifiman sound without destroying your wallet, and then if you dig it you can sell that on and get whatever they come out with next. I doubt an '802' will be out for a while yet considering they're still releasing new modules for the 801.

 
Quote:

Thanks - I notice you are in the UK - do you know of anywhere that offers home demos for a couple of days, without requiring purchase followed by refund? I'm uncomfortable with that kind of scenario, for the sake of both parties... - is AmpCity the only 801 stockist in the UK?
 
Also, can you point me in the direction of any early info on the 801 successor you mention?
 
Thanks.
 

 

 

[Mython]

Whilst it's the opinion of one person, I nonetheless found the remarks expressed in the following thread interesting:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/526187/cowon-vs-hifiman-hm-602

 

[Somnambulist]

It wasn't that particular poster, but there is someone on here (was it Tronz?) who made a thread complaining that his iPhone sounded much better than his Hifiiman and was quite gleefully trashing it. I noticed the recently though he'd become a huge Hifiman fan , which made no sense, and had to go through is posting history. Turns out he'd somehow enabled and screwed up EQ settings which had a hugely detrimental effect on SQ and once he turned off EQ and whatever had been enabled, he heard the player 'as it was supposed to be heard' and fell in love.
 
I haven't heard the J3 or Hifiman's but given 90% of people who've owned the S:Flo2 rate it higher than the Cowon and many of them have then become happy Hifiman owners, I'm inclined to want to give them a listen, especially now Rockbox is offering a much better UI experience. My S:Flo2 was a step up from the iPhones and Sony players I've owned, although I'm more inclined now to go with an iPod + transport/DAC + amp set up for several reasons. Although Rockboxed Hifiman is kind of appealing (and cheaper).
 
Quote:

Whilst it's the opinion of one person, I nonetheless found the remarks expressed in the following thread interesting:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/526187/cowon-vs-hifiman-hm-602