[HiFiRobot]

Had the Monosaudio P902 99.998% OFC Copper AC running for the past three days connected to my power amp and straight to the wall.Lower noise floor hence music sounds more real,performs way better than my Nordost Gold AC.Dont know if buying bare wire next time and using better connectors would make any improvement.

Which connectors was on your P902?

I attached Monosaudio E105G/F105G Pure copper Gold Plated on mine.

 

[Stax 7]

Which connectors was on your P902?

I attached Monosaudio E105G/F105G Pure copper Gold Plated on mine.

The standard ones they come with known as

Hi-End EU Schuko power plug​

Which connectors was on your P902?

I attached Monosaudio E105G/F105G Pure copper Gold Plated on mine.

 

[DecentLevi]

Ground box journey update...

* Graphite added to ingredient mix works well, just as I described previously. What I found out is that with Magnetite mixes use very small amount like two of those plastic spoon for 3-4kg of material mix. Otherwise will change sonic signature toward neutral. But with Tourmaline mix more can be added and will not change the sonic signature, only enhance performance.

* In the pic there is a jumper going from the box mix going to digital output of DAC to another 3.4kg bag of Magnetite. Previously was about 1.5kg. Adding the 1.5kg to the existing 3.7kg-4kg mix added a bit more micro detail, a bit more body to presentation, tiny bit more improved decay and a bit more separation of all sounds. This effect was across the frequency spectrum. Changing the 1.5kg to 3.4kg. was a larger difference/improvement in performance. I was feeling I must be hitting or getting close to a performance ceiling until the bump to 3.4kg added to mass. So this taught me that mass matters more then I thought. The theory by Entreq and a couple of other manufacturers of these devices is the mass of material dictates how much stray current, noise and static electricity can be drawn, trapped and dissipated from the line level signal. No idea how much of this is nonsense but seems mass to size of component as a rule of thumb works. The biggest difference is added micro detail and nuance with decaying notes across the frequency spectrum. When listening to this change makes the presentation more grand sounding and more refined.

Today I will be getting more Magnetite and some different gauge 6N OCC Single Crystal Copper with Teflon jacket from Aliexpress. This wire has the same specs as the Neotech I got from Sonic Craft, but at 1/5th the price. I am off the next two days and will test the wire against VH-Audio OFC and the Neotech. Also will test adding another 3.4kg+ to the second analog output on the DAC to see if this does anything. This is what the empty box in the pic is for, to house the material during testing. Currently only one of the two analog signal outputs are being filtered. When I tried attaching both analog outputs to the same 4kg. box there was smearing and degraded performance. I will be placing a second 3.4kg to 4kg mix to the second output to see what happens.

To make the above clearer to understand. Since bumping the digital output filtering mass from 4kg to 7.4kg improved performance, I will be setting up the analog outputs so they will have 3.4kg+ per left and right channel. Currently only one analog output channel is being filtered with a 4kg. box. At the same time I will test or compare the 6N OCC Single Crystal Copper with Teflon jacket from Aliexpress with what I have on hand. Will update on what I find out...

Responding to your insightful post above and your update here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/post-17344726

I've been watching your journey into DIY grounding box boxes and am about to give it a whirl. Brainstorming here, please let me know if I got this right, or if you have anything newer to add?

Two grounding box variants which can work better depending on the component, each box primarily with tourmaline or magnetite. Just a few spoonfuls of graphite powder in each, a bit more for the tourmaline mix. Too much can make it bright, but daisy chaining it with another box that has less could counterbalance that.

Quoting your formulas:

"Jotunheim 2 amp ground box: Main ingredient is Tourmaline
- Tourmaline chips - AA+ grade (eBay), about 3 lbs
- Tourmaline - Brazilian black Tourmaline powder (eBay), about 0.6 lbs
- Natural Shungite rough chips sized 5mm - 15mm (eBay), about 0.25 lbs
- Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) eBay - 0.3 lbs
- Silver plated 12ga. copper 5", just placed inside mix. (Aliexpress) I wanted to hear what silver does to the mix. May still add more later.
- Pure Rock Salt (Morton Pure and Natural purchased at Home Depot) - about 2 lbs
- Military Grade Graphite Powder (Aliexpress) - 4 plastic spoon full
- Pure Tungsten, sand sized (Aliexpress) - about 30 grams

Proceed DAP (older NOS R2R DAC) ground box x2, one is for digital output and one for analog output: Main ingredient is Magnetite
- Magnetite, High purity sand (eBay), about 7.25 lbs
- Natural Shungite rough chips sized 5mm - 15mm (eBay), about 0.25 lbs
- Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) eBay - 0.3 lbs
- Silver plated 12ga. copper fine cut up pieces from 24" length or so wire. (Aliexpress)
- Pure Rock Salt (Morton Pure and Natural purchased at Home Depot) - about 1 lb
- Military Grade Graphite Powder (Aliexpress) - 2 plastic spoon full
- Pure Tungsten, sand sized (Aliexpress) - about 35 grams"

Sometimes (but not always) less is more. Each box has about seven ingredients. Is there any of these you would say I could do without and still get the best performance, or should I go all in?

Wires - are these still your most recommended ones? Neotech 12 gauge and 12 gauge VH Audio OFC.
It seems you are using two wires for each box. Where is it advisable to have each connected on a general stereo component? (EG one to digital out, one to analog out?)

Cable design - should I twist both wires together and put in an enclosure? And what about any shielding? I learned from my pre-made AliExpress grounding box that wire shielding does make a nice difference, perhaps darker and blacker background.

I like the fact that it doesn't need copper insulation, for simplicity. And I would do without the connection, just run the wire straight into the box with about 7" of the wire strands making contact with the mix. Though I would prefer to just use a single wire for each box.

My integrated stereo amp happens to already have a GND ground input, so I will just plug the wire in bare without a connector. I'll also be making one for my DDC, and probably my AC power conditioner. Since the connection is to the negative ground, any suggestions on a connector that works for this, only for the outside of an RCA or coax plug?

Boxes - Is that Amazon link for the Billioteam boxes in your post above still your main recommendation for a standard amp / DAC, or should I go with any larger box? Do those that you linked have about 3.5 kg capacity?

THANKS!

 

[cdacosta]

Responding to your insightful post above and your update here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aliexpress-cables.963919/post-17344726

I've been watching your journey into DIY grounding box boxes and am about to give it a whirl. Brainstorming here, please let me know if I got this right, or if you have anything newer to add?

Two grounding box variants which can work better depending on the component, each box primarily with tourmaline or magnetite. Just a few spoonfuls of graphite powder in each, a bit more for the tourmaline mix. Too much can make it bright, but daisy chaining it with another box that has less could counterbalance that.

Quoting your formulas:

"Jotunheim 2 amp ground box: Main ingredient is Tourmaline
- Tourmaline chips - AA+ grade (eBay), about 3 lbs
- Tourmaline - Brazilian black Tourmaline powder (eBay), about 0.6 lbs
- Natural Shungite rough chips sized 5mm - 15mm (eBay), about 0.25 lbs
- Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) eBay - 0.3 lbs
- Silver plated 12ga. copper 5", just placed inside mix. (Aliexpress) I wanted to hear what silver does to the mix. May still add more later.
- Pure Rock Salt (Morton Pure and Natural purchased at Home Depot) - about 2 lbs
- Military Grade Graphite Powder (Aliexpress) - 4 plastic spoon full
- Pure Tungsten, sand sized (Aliexpress) - about 30 grams
Tungsten, Magnetite, graphite, tourmaline stones, Rochelle Salt,
Rock salt, shungite chips

Proceed DAP (older NOS R2R DAC) ground box x2, one is for digital output and one for analog output: Main ingredient is Magnetite
- Magnetite, High purity sand (eBay), about 7.25 lbs
- Natural Shungite rough chips sized 5mm - 15mm (eBay), about 0.25 lbs
- Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) eBay - 0.3 lbs
- Silver plated 12ga. copper fine cut up pieces from 24" length or so wire. (Aliexpress)
- Pure Rock Salt (Morton Pure and Natural purchased at Home Depot) - about 1 lb
- Military Grade Graphite Powder (Aliexpress) - 2 plastic spoon full
- Pure Tungsten, sand sized (Aliexpress) - about 35 grams"

Sometimes (but not always) less is more. Each box has about seven ingredients. Is there any of these you would say I could do without and still get the best performance, or should I go all in?

Wires - are these still your most recommended ones? Neotech 12 gauge and 12 gauge VH Audio OFC.
It seems you are using two wires for each box. Where is it advisable to have each connected on a general stereo component? (EG one to digital out, one to analog out?)

Cable design - should I twist both wires together and put in an enclosure? And what about any shielding? I learned from my pre-made AliExpress grounding box that wire shielding does make a nice difference, perhaps darker and blacker background.

I like the fact that it doesn't need copper insulation, for simplicity. And I would do without the connection, just run the wire straight into the box with about 7" of the wire strands making contact with the mix. Though I would prefer to just use a single wire for each box.

My integrated stereo amp happens to already have a GND ground input, so I will just plug the wire in bare without a connector. I'll also be making one for my DDC, and probably my AC power conditioner. Since the connection is to the negative ground, any suggestions on a connector that works for this, only for the outside of an RCA or coax plug?

Boxes - Is that Amazon link for the Billioteam boxes in your post above still your main recommendation for a standard amp / DAC, or should I go with any larger box? Do those that you linked have about 3.5 kg capacity?

THANKS!

That is a lot of questions! LOL

* The above mixes with a little more Tungsten is where I landed. The Magnetite alone made a huge difference, without any other ingredients. Adding the different materials to each the Magnetite and Tourmaline refined the sonic performance. Tourmaline was the easiest to mix and adjust. But the Magnetite mix is less expensive, could be used just by itself, like Entreq did with its earlier ground boxes.

* Yes those boxes hold 3.5kg+ of material and is the ones I am using. I currently am using 7 of these within my headphone system in the signature. Sure bigger box would be good, but hard to find or expensive to build and time consuming. When I eventually purchase another home and build a shop again, I may make custom boxes for my main home rig.

* The wire as I have noted in this thread. I changed to an Aliexpress wire that on paper has the same specs as the Neotech but 1) sounds better and 2) is way cheaper. It is the ones you have seen in the pics with a clear Teflon jacket twisted together. IIRC, I went into detail of the sonic differences and details of the wire. I buy the 2.0 square which is about 14ga. I use two runs of these wires twisted together, this makes the 11ga. cable. Best sounding ground wire I have tried so far, even vs pure Cardas silver.

Here is the link to the wire I buy: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255...t_main.31.102c1802k5lnZ0&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

* Best performance was no shielding of the wire or enclosure.

* Best performance was wire directly into the enclosure to come in contact with material mix. Meaning no binding posts needed. But the binding posts allow for daisy chaining boxes to add mass to the original box if desired. Also adding copper binding posts allow for cable rolling.

* Best performance of the ground boxes is attached to a unused line level RCA jack. Nano Liquid and the clone Furutech solderless RCA plugs are perfect for this task.

* Note: where the ground box is attached, the quality of the wire/cable and connection is 70% of the performance. If you want to try one on a AC ground post you can at your own risk, I am not advocating for that. These boxes were originally designed by Entreq for use as line level ground filtering devices. In my system they work spectacularly this way. The performance gain is many magnitudes of what cable rolling does/provides.

* Also footers effect the performance about 10% overall.

* I spent weeks testing and experimenting. I was surprised how sensitive the performance change was when changing any aspect of the ground box. Maybe you can improve on the project, go slow and have fun.

Feel free to ask any other questions.

 

[cdacosta]

@DecentLevi

I do not want sound like I am exaggerating, but here is the truth. The ground boxes did more for improving my headphone system than any cable upgrade or any component upgrade I have done in the past (even for main reference systems I have had). When I started on this ground box journey, I went from...

- intrigued (why are so many audiophiles interested in ground boxes?)
- surprised (that these devices do anything)
- confused (what exactly are the devices doing?)
- focused (how to improve or get the most out of them without spending a small fortune?)
- happy (with final results/performance)

Now the system sounds so good that I have zero upgrade desires. This is a first for me. It was a fun and enlightening project.

 

[szore]

My humble ground tubes started it all...

 

[fidgeraldo]

- confused (what exactly are the devices doing?)

Can you write about what sort of improvement these boxes did to the sound?

Thanks!

Cheers!

 

[EDhaenens]

Just wanted to share… I made this grounding block from the hifishark forum with two pure copper blocks (5 kg each) bound together with fasteners, drilled holes in it and made the grounding cables mr Dacosta shared. Works wonders too. I will try to make the grounding boxes with tourmaline next…maybe they can be a nice addition grounding the speakers. One copper block costs 150 euros though… figuring out how to post pictures… sorry new here

 

[cdacosta]

Just wanted to share… I made this grounding block from the hifishark forum with two pure copper blocks (5 kg each) bound together with fasteners, drilled holes in it and made the grounding cables mr Dacosta shared. Works wonders too. I will try to make the grounding boxes with tourmaline next…maybe they can be a nice addition grounding the speakers. One copper block costs 150 euros though… figuring out how to post pictures… sorry new here

Did you compare the 6N copper wire I suggested from Aliexpress to other wire in the context of your project?

 

[EDhaenens]

Did you compare the 6N copper wire I suggested from Aliexpress to other wire in the context of your project?

Yes I made cables with supra silver coated power wire, different connectors though. The wire u suggested has indeed a more balanced sound, the supra silver coated powerwire has a more in your face sound, accentuates the highs a bit but if you need that it’s a very good option.

 

[EDhaenens]

https://ibb.co/rHBvxfC
https://ibb.co/DLBJ60v
https://ibb.co/0X5zC97
https://ibb.co/3v57WSV

 

[cdacosta]

Can you write about what sort of improvement these boxes did to the sound?

Thanks!

Cheers!

The most profound improvement sonically to the system was on the DAC. In other areas or components the improvement varied compared to the DAC.

With the DAC, after installing even a basic "decent" wire to 7lb bag of high grade Magnetite, and then to a unused RCA output jack on the DAC, the system opened up to a shocking degree. I was so surprised I sat there listening to as many different recordings I could to make sure I was not imagining what was going on. Everything improved, everything an audiophile (or at least me) cherishes. Decay, attack, PRaT, bass nuance, bass slam, improved resolution across the frequency spectrum, frequency balance, sound stage (walls disappeared), vocal/mid frequency nuance, speed, improved driver control, noise levels dropped to the point I can hear nuances in recordings I did not know existed. I heard so much more information, I was thrilled I tried this simple experiment and confused with why it worked? This is all listening to recordings I know well and listen to on a weekly basis.

Then applied Furutech Nano Liquid to the wire conductors and Furutech solderless connector. It got even better. And all I did was plug a passive bag of semi-magnetic material to a unused RCA output jack on the DAC! No $20K spent on a component, but it felt like $20K was thrown at the system. This is what started the experimenting and journey of ground boxes for me.

 

[cdacosta]

Yes I made cables with supra silver coated power wire, different connectors though. The wire u suggested has indeed a more balanced sound, the supra silver coated powerwire has a more in your face sound, accentuates the highs a bit but if you need that it’s a very good option.

I like that wire for ground box application because it is very balanced, does not add or detract, is inexpensive and sounds good. Glad it worked for you.

 

[cdacosta]

https://ibb.co/rHBvxfC
https://ibb.co/DLBJ60v
https://ibb.co/0X5zC97
https://ibb.co/3v57WSV

How much material does that copper box hold? I considered using a copper enclosure but when I was experimenting with shielding even a thin copper shield or copper sheet close to the material degraded performance. I was testing this while listening so I can hear the changes in real time. Have you tried the same mix and parts in a wood enclosure to compare?

 

[EDhaenens]

It’s not really a copper box. They are two massive 5 kg copper blocks bound together on top of each other. Placing an enclosure over it (plastic, wood) made it sound worse.
https://www.geiger-edelmetalle.de/en/copper-bar-geiger-original-5000-g-cast-.9999-1321004.html

edit: the copper plates you see around the copper blocks are part of my cabinet and have nothing to do with the audio equipment. But the plates are connected to the grounding block as well. It has a massive effect connected. The block is also connected to ac ground through a star grounded strip.
Edit 2: I think it’s comparable to the Synergistic Research grounding block giving a common (signal) ground to all equipment in the set.