[Vertigo-1]

Not necessarily, as amps can change tonal characteristics as well. I believe a powerful amp that can push forth more midrange would really make the 501s sing.

But nonetheless, I like my AKG K340s more than those 501s.

And if anybody wants to argue, go read my sig.

 

[joelongwood]

Damn, Vertigo. I value your opinions highly, so I'll have to give my 340s a closer listen. I only did a quick A/B with the 501s on a very limited musical selection. I know that, before I discovered this hobby, I just loved those 340s. I'll check them out again. Thanks.

 

[Neruda]

The K340:

Wish I could have a listen, but I doubt that'll be happening any time soon.

 

[jim]

Did I read that right? The AKG k340s were electrostatic? How does that work? The picture shows a 1/4" plug like regular dynamics....I thought electrostatics needed high voltages to work?

 

[Vertigo-1]

The AKG K340s were a very unique pair of headphones AKG made that contains both an electrostatic driver for treble and upper midrange details, and to provide the bass that electrostats generally lack, a dynamic driver for the bass.

With a design this unique, I couldn't help but just be smart and pick myself up a pair of these old, rare headphones, knowing that AKG definitely had something going here.

I did a comparison last night between the V6, MSP, HP-1, and 340s, and the 340 won by a far margin when it came to picking up and showing tiny details. And since the 340s are closed, my brand spanking new Sony V6s are starting to wonder how long before they'll be out looking for a new home...

 

[Neruda]

yeah, that sounds like the design of nearly every electrostatic speaker out there, but in headphone form. I wonder where they're crossed, or if there's a crossover at all. If there isn't, I wonder where the electrostatic element rolls off and the dynamic element kicks in...

 

[joelongwood]

Neruda, according to the brochure I have, the K340 has a crossover at 4,000 hz. Also, "A miniature impedance-matching transformer easily fits in each earpiece as part of the crossover network."

 

[Neruda]

4,000hz? that's right smack dab in the middle of everything! I was hoping for it to be crossed either higher or lower than that...much lower, hopefully. But I guess that would have been too hard on the amp. I hate multiple drivers, personally, it seems flawed to have more than one driver producing the sound. it's one of the reasons I'm so obsessed with fullrange drivers right now...

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda 4,000hz? that's right smack dab in the middle of everything! I was hoping for it to be crossed either higher or lower than that...much lower, hopefully. But I guess that would have been too hard on the amp. I hate multiple drivers, personally, it seems flawed to have more than one driver producing the sound. it's one of the reasons I'm so obsessed with fullrange drivers right now...

Actually, 4kHz isn't necessarily a bad spot for an X-over. In spkrs, 1.5kHz-2.5kHz is a common region of the spectrun for x-overs to happen. Arguably, that is a much more noticable region of the spectrum than 4kHz, an octave higher. Most music and voice fundamentals happen below 4k. So things could be worse!

 

[Vertigo-1]

Joe, definitely give your K340s a relisten. My third night with them shows me that they are really in nature electrostatic...as it turns out, none of my other headphones can touch them in treble detail, including my R10s, which I would attribute to their electrostatic drivers. The ability to hear "stop and go" in instrument seperation is definitely something no dynamic headphone can really pull off successfully.

Overally the R10s still sound much nicer overall, but if this is what electrostatics is about, I might just have to seriously relook into rebuying a pair of Staxs...

Quote:

I hate multiple drivers, personally, it seems flawed to have more than one driver producing the sound. it's one of the reasons I'm so obsessed with fullrange drivers right now...

So you must hate all speakers in general then. Tell me, what multi thousand dollar electrostatic speakers are you pimping in your house then?

The K340s certainly have the concept down pat...they hardly sound flawed to me.

 

[Neruda]

all speakers? heh, no way. There are speakers out there with only one driver handling all frequencies. If you take the DIY route you can get this type of speaker for relatively cheap; most non-diy speakers of this type are incredibly expensive. Seems like a very good idea to me, personally, but it can be difficult to get it to work right.

 

[Tim D]

A lot of dynamic full-range headphone drivers in plenty of headphones start to become inconsistent shortly after 4khz anyways IMO. I can see where a cross-over near this point wouldn't be a bad thing whatsoever.

 

[MacDEF]

I'd like to see a speaker (DIY or otherwise) that can produce a flat response from 20Hz to even 15kHz and sound decent with a single driver. I don't believe it is possible

 

[Neruda]

oh, it's very much possible. just difficult and in most cases expensive. You can get them to extend even higher than that, too. A lot of designs use a rearloaded horn to help produce the bass, meaning that even if a driver starts to roll off at 150hz you can get it flat down WAY deeper. But you can also stick some drivers in bass-reflex cabinets with good results. I've even found a driver (the damn thing is really expensive, close to $150) that would go from 60hz to 20khz in a closed cabinet. Now that's a speaker that i'd like to have! the same driver would have an F3 of 30hz in a ported enclosure as well.

A Hedlund rearloaded horn setup:

Crowley Acoustics Diatone Speakers:

Wyckoff Super-12's; 12" wideband speakers with a supertweeter:

Bass reflex using fostex FE164:

The inside of one rearloaded horn:

 

[Xander]

hehehe.

at this point MacDEF is scratching his head.

I built a set of T-Line cabinates using a single 5-1/4" fullrange driver with a whizzer cone that hit 17khz, and reproduced a solid 31hz that was very audible.

All those speakers and tube amps are making me wanna get back into speakers... Maybe I should try building a small set of full-range speaks for nearfield listening...