[lojay]

I haven't been around for half a year now, it's simply shocking to see so many new faces around already, this place is GROWING way fast! I wonder if you guys have your tastes in headphones changed any bit.

Anyways, after 1 year ownership of my Shure's, a year and half (or more) of the HD497, and listening to countless other wonderful headphones, I finally can consider myself eligible to by a true high end headphone.

I still very remember a long time ago people liked to compare the RS-1 and HD600, then people compared the CD3K, Beyer forgot-what-top-model and the HD600, and concluded that CD3K is king. But subjectiveness is so high, that now almost each of these (and many more) high end headphones have their fans.

I have no time to test each headphone out, nor to AB them at a meet. I just want a headphone with best overall performance that won't dissappoint me. I don't want the king of soundstage, the king of neutrality, or the king of detail. I want my music! I want to buy something I won't regret, and assuming I'm upgrading from my Shure's, ANYTHING at that price range shouldn't disappoint me much.

So, is this the best overall phone for my system? (with value for upgrades in source and amp in mind)

-E-MU 1212m unmodded, Ipod 40G 4G

Thanks a lot!

 

[go_vtec]

Depending on your expectation, HD650 may fit your bill. However, you WILL need an amp to get the best out of HD6x0. HD6x0 series has similar sonic signature to Shure E3c (good mid/bass, recessed highs), but HD6x0 sounds slightly less recessed than Shure to my ears. If you are going to get an amp and source upgrade, HD650 deserve your consideration.

If you were to go without a dedicated amp, Grado SR-225, Sennheiser HD595/555 or Audio Technica ATH-W1000/A1000/A900/A500 should be on top of the list. To my ears, Grado is most fun sounding headphone which sounds pretty descent driven by iPod, Sennheiser has more neutral sound and offer very good midrange (good for vocal I guess), but AT cans sound pretty sweet driven by iPod/soundcard. One drawback (some may consider this as advantage is) of AT can is slightly recessed midrange (more noticeable on lower end cans).

 

[lojay]

Thanks you for the fast response go_vtec,
Yes, I intend to buy an amp in the short run, but not the source as 1) it would take a lot more money, prob. $800 to make a considerable upgrade, and 2) my soundcard is comparable to many mid-end CDP's (some folks say it can rival $1,000 cdps, not sure of that).

Since I have lived with a A900 and 225 for 2 months each, I suppose both wouldn't be what I want for an upgrade. They are great, lively cans, but I still think they cannot compare wth canalphones like the Ety and Shures in the detail department, though honestly they do beat the crap out of the Shures in the enjoyment and musicality factors.

However, I still want a considerable leap. If HD650 isn't, I wouldn't consider it. To be fair, at least this can has to be as musical as the 225, but more separation/ resolution and detail.

Also, I guess the bass of the HD650 is much better (fuller and precise) than the Shure's from one audition I had. Is that true for those of you who used it for a long time? And what does "recessed highs" mean?

Last, what are high end AT options?

 

[go_vtec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay Also, I guess the bass of the HD650 is much better (fuller and precise) than the Shure's from one audition I had. Is that true for those of you who used it for a long time? And what does "recessed highs" mean?

Bass of HD650 is one of the fullest yet tightly controlled when powered properly. If not (say driven by PCDP/iPod), it may sound little bit dull, limpy or worse, may even be considered bloated.

Recessed high means rolled off highs (as if you turned down the treble a bit). In other words, it doesn't emphasize highs like Etys (ER-4s), Sony cans (say CD3K) or AT cans (ATH-A series). Due to my life long addiction to Sony cans, it took little whilte to get used to HD580/HD600 then HD650. Once I got used to it, I really appreciate the fact that I could listen to HD650 for hours without feeling tired. To me HD650 is like a comfort food, soothing & relaxing (especially when powered by tube amps like MPX3 or RKV MKII).

 

[go_vtec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay Last, what are high end AT options?

Among AT cans, I like really like ATH-W1000. Compare to lower end AT cans, W1000 does not have noticeable drop in midrange yet it adds a touch of warmth. Not to mention more organic element in overall sonic signature.

 

[lojay]

Quote:

Recessed high means rolled off highs (as if you turned down the treble a bit). In other words, it doesn't emphasize highs like Etys (ER-4s), Sony cans (say CD3K) or AT cans (ATH-A series). Due to my life long addiction to Sony cans, it took little whilte to get used to HD580/HD600 then HD650. Once I got used to it, I really appreciate the fact that I could listen to HD650 for hours without feeling tired. To me HD650 is like a comfort food, soothing & relaxing (especially when powered by tube amps like MPX3 or RKV MKII).

Ah, that I can relate to. The Sennheiser HD497 is a bit recessed in the highs as you may say, and they are quite comfortable to listen.

Then I guess that recessed sound signature may suit me, as I tend to listen to music for long periods of time.

However, cans with emphasis on highs have easily percieved detail and resolution, such as the Ety's. So, would the resolution and detail in the HD650 be worse than that of my Shure's?

I love fast and punchy music as much as I like laid back music. We all know that the HD650 plays laid back music (classical / jazz) best, but does it play punchy music like rock as well? (Grado-wise?)

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay However, I still want a considerable leap. If HD650 isn't, I wouldn't consider it.

For the time being I can tell that HD650 are a definite upgrade over both a900 and 225 models. However, I'm not sure you can find considerable leap over these already good phones. For example I was hoping to find another siginificant jump going from my vintage senns to grado sr80, and was disappointed to find small improvement here and there but never found an upgrade of similar scale. But hey, if you already come this close to reality or music itself, there simply isn't enough room for another significant improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay To be fair, at least this can has to be as musical as the 225, but more separation/ resolution and detail. Also, I guess the bass of the HD650 is much better (fuller and precise) than the Shure's from one audition I had. Is that true for those of you who used it for a long time? And what does "recessed highs" mean?

• Imo 650 will fulfill your expectation with respect to 225's musicality above. • I haven't tried Shure but can tell that 650 bass is the 'nicest' I heard from phones. • HD650's recessed highs comments usually came from those who've been getting used to brighter phones (cd3k ? etc) - but compared to live music or good speakers, the high freq sound realistic, not overblown, have great details and never sounded harsh. Hope that helps.

You're quite lucky in HK there that you can find good quality 'Designed in China' amps at great price !

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay However, cans with emphasis on highs have easily percieved detail and resolution, such as the Ety's. So, would the resolution and detail in the HD650 be worse than that of my Shure's?

That's the best thing I like about 650, full high freq resolution without any treble emphasis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay I love fast and punchy music as much as I like laid back music. We all know that the HD650 plays laid back music (classical / jazz) best, but does it play punchy music like rock as well? (Grado-wise?)

I don't think you can get them all ... although I find my senns to be great with any music, the one senn that imo sound grado-ish are 595. They have slightly less resolution and noticably less bass than 650 - which made 595 very neutral balanced phones with nice forward presentation. These are my favorite phones for the price and I prefer 595's mids over any other phones.

Btw I think you missed the [/size] on your signature. =)

 

[e_dawg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_vtec Bass of HD650 is one of the fullest yet tightly controlled when powered properly. If not (say driven by PCDP/iPod), it may sound little bit dull, limpy or worse, may even be considered bloated.

I find the HD650 to have good, but not great bass. I find the mid/upper bass a bit slower and less articulate than the rest of the spectrum. The DT880 had a little better weight and more articulate bass IMO.

Having said that, I don't know of a better all around headphone than the HD650. Balanced, no major flaws.

 

[Jonoh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay Ah, that I can relate to. The Sennheiser HD497 is a bit recessed in the highs as you may say, and they are quite comfortable to listen. Then I guess that recessed sound signature may suit me, as I tend to listen to music for long periods of time. However, cans with emphasis on highs have easily perceived detail and resolution, such as the Ety's. So, would the resolution and detail in the HD650 be worse than that of my Shure's? I love fast and punchy music as much as I like laid back music. We all know that the HD650 plays laid back music (classical / jazz) best, but does it play punchy music like rock as well? (Grado-wise?)

If you like your 497 for rock, you will be happy with the 650 if properly powered. IMO, Senns all sound somewhat laid back with softer top end.

I am actually on the fence on if I like Etys or Senns more. They are different. , the 650s not surprisingly sound fuller and much a ton more bass impact yet I find the intensity of the Etys quite fun.

 

[ayt999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay Last, what are high end AT options?

you may also want to look at the ATH-AD2000, ATH-AD1000, and ATH-L3000, though other than the ATH-AD1000 they are probably not within your price range considering the cans you've mentioned.

have you checked out sony's new MDR-SA line-up of open headphones?

 

[lojay]

Quote:

Nak Man: For the time being I can tell that HD650 are a definite upgrade over both a900 and 225 models.

That's great to hear! That's why I'm seriously considering the HD650.

Quote:

Jonoh: I am actually on the fence on if I like Etys or Senns more. They are different. , the 650s not surprisingly sound fuller and much a ton more bass impact yet I find the intensity of the Etys quite fun.

Yeah, that's why I might get the Ety's to replace my Shure's and get the 650's as well.

Quote:

Jonoh: If you like your 497 for rock, you will be happy with the 650 if properly powered. IMO, Senns all sound somewhat laid back with softer top end.

But I still prefer the Ety's and Grados for rock! But I wouldn't want a Grado 225 or 325 because there are some other things a Senn can do very well while it doesnt even touch.

Quote:

Ayt99: have you checked out sony's new MDR-SA line-up of open headphones?

No, but maybe I could try auditioning them if they are here in HK...

The largest consideration for the 650's currently is whether it has the detail and resolution improvement from the Shure's and the Grado 225...I mean I wouldn't want to turn back to the Shure's after I got the 650. (Which is quite impossible)

The second consideration is whether an AT W1000/AD1000.. or Sony CD3000 would be a better choice. But that is way too hard to tell given I don't have the time to try them out.

 

[lojay]

Do you guys suppose I can get an offer of a ~30 day trial for the 650 in Hong Kong like the one from our online sponsors? Would anyone be willing to ship it?

 

[acs236]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man • HD650's recessed highs comments usually came from those who've been getting used to brighter phones (cd3k ? etc) - but compared to live music or good speakers, the high freq sound realistic, not overblown, have great details and never sounded harsh. Hope that helps.

In my experience, this varies from person to person. To me, the HD650 does not sound like because it's not a bright enough. The CD3K and Grados offer sound that, to my ears, is closer to real life.

The lessen is that the listener needs to find where they fit in on the spectrum.

 

[Andrea]

The treble of HD650 is NOT at all recessed.

It's just polite, mild-natured. Which is quite an achievement with the extraordinary detail it can provide. But, it may make things sound 'better-than-real-life', here I concur.