[stuart1927]

Nice thanks for this info. Wonder why they went with the TDA1543 chip, probably the one they were able to get in volume since they use 8 in each DAC. The Orchid is based on the supposedly « legendary » TDA1541. My old Paradisea, the first MHDT made was based on the TDA1543 if I remember well. On the other had, they use a 6922 based tube buffer which is what the newest version of the Orchid use, so it must be nicer sounding then the first version I have.

Anyway, hopefully LAB12 gets a bit more attention soon, some pro reviews and stores in NA selling their stuff.

I'm not an expert in the chips used, but I think the implementation overall has a much bigger influence on the sound. I've heard great dacs with fairly cheap and cheerful (older) chips being used. My old Musical paradise MP1 was a perfect example. The use of good components and of course someone who knows what they are doing, is by far the best indicator. The Lab 12 Dac 1 ref uses superb parts and just looks to be very well executed. The fact that the designer spent more time listening than aimlessly measuring everything in sight says a lot in my book. I don't know the exact reasons for 8 chips, but I've read that it's effectively configured as a parallel resistor ladder arrangement, which may help explain the natural sound signature. I suspect such an arrangement would be far removed from a unit using a single or even dual chip. Interestingly, the original Lab 12 SE dac got great reviews, including one by HTR, who said it was better than dacs costing $10,000 more! The reviewer then did a review of the orchid dac a week later and said it was better! This particular reviewer reviews lack credibility IMHO as it's not the first time he's reviewed a product to say it's a game changer and is better than products costing 5x etc.......only to review something else the next week and claim it was even better than the game changing/seismic shift product he just reviewed! Perhaps he should just calm down and not get so carried away! The new lab 12 Dac 1 Reference looks to have upped the game considerably though, and is has been substantially upgraded in every aspect v's the original SE version. There are a few great reviews out there.....some are actually linked in the Lab 12 website.

 

[stuart1927]

I thought seriously about getting the Lab 12 Pre but went with a well known to me Pre instead (Emotive Audio Sira) I dont know a lot of the technical on DAC builds. According to some very well known folks in the DAC realm a LOT of the differences in how a DAC sounds is in the design of the output stage (Dan Wright and Paul Mcgowan are examples) With the LAB 12 using twin 6922 it lends itself to tube rolling a TON of tubes. I must admit I have never been huge on Tube Rolling. I dont find nuance shifting worth the effort. I had a pair of orange label A frame Amperex laying around that frankly were super microphonic in another DAC and yet its not an issue with the Lab 12. All I know is the DAC must be burnt in because last night was really something special in my listening history using DAC's and digital files

Lab12 does seem to be picking up steam, Price will probably start picking up steam as well (sadly that seems to be the way of things)

Interesting....I already had a preamp that I was happy with (Trafomatic Evolution line one). It's their entry level amp, but really nice. Very simple circuit and superb components. It hooks up extremely well with the Lab 12 dac 1 ref. I also experienced quite a long burn in with the lab 12, but after a few hundred hrs I'm more than happy. It just sounds right. The other Lab 12 gear looks very nice too. Their Suara power amp looks very tasty!
Without wanting to ignite ww3....one of the biggest improvements I heard in my system recently was when adding a Curious cable usb. I've long been a cable sceptic, but the improvement with this cable, from my server to the Lab 12 was simply unbelievable. I think the separation of the power and audio wires is doing something very special to the sound. They are not cheap, but not ridiculous v's some others I've seen.

 

[viggen]

Got an earlier version, DAC1SE arriving next week. I got a new amp a few weeks ago and started amp swapping again. My cheapest dac, Bladelius USB, turns out to be the best sounding. A few months ago, I was wanting to buy an used DAC1Ref available on USAM but demured after reading Terry London's Orchid review. So, this time, I grabbed the 1SE immediately.

 

[viggen]

comparing...

 

[Loftprojection]

comparing...

Which MHDT DAC is this?

 

[viggen]

orchid

 

[viggen]

The fuse seems to be 5 x 20mm 1.6a 250mv. I can't tell whether it's fast or slow blow. Anyone know?

The SE only uses one 6922 tube whereas the REF uses two. I have a few 6922 tubes I could use with the SE so I am glad I don't need pairs. Just put in an Amperex in place of a Genelex. The Genelex sounded flat and detailed in the MZ3 but sounded dark and warm in the Lab12. The Amperex gave the Lab12 more air and speed. In the Orchid, the Amperex also provides more air and speed but a bit overladen. Now I wonder how the Orchid sounds with Genelex..

Another thought. I liked the Ares 2 and wanted more of the same by upgrading to Pontus. I didn't get more of the same. The SE with Genelex tube is what I thought I'd be getting with the Pontus. The SE with Ameprex shifts the SE more towards to how the Pontus sounds, faster more detailed.. less soul.

edit. heard back from TMR that lab12 uses fast blow fuses. They claim the 115v version dac uses 3.15a not a 1.6a fuse. But, I think that's only true for REF series not the SE series.

 

[alekc]

comparing...

@viggen please let us know more when you're done. I may have a chance to demo Lab12 dac in my system at home. Still waiting for the update. If not I'm really looking into getting Border Patrol dac but importing to EU maybe both time consuming and I need to add additional costs like taxes. I've been speaking with a person who had Lab12 for a while and he told me it sounds very analog - whatever that really means

Any thoughts on cans pairing would be very welcome as well.

 

[viggen]

@viggen please let us know more when you're done. I may have a chance to demo Lab12 dac in my system at home. Still waiting for the update. If not I'm really looking into getting Border Patrol dac but importing to EU maybe both time consuming and I need to add additional costs like taxes. I've been speaking with a person who had Lab12 for a while and he told me it sounds very analog - whatever that really means

Any thoughts on cans pairing would be very welcome as well.

I had Border Patrol SEi. It isn't as good as MDHT Orchid. And, so far, Orchid is not as good as Lab12 SE. I use mainly speakers so can't speak to cans.

 

[Loftprojection]

orchid

Great, same as me, I was too stupid to look closely at the picture you provided, I would have seen the name! Hahaha

Amperex is what I found best in my Orchid. I’m a real sucker for the smooth analog Orchid sound. Can’t wait to read your comparo

 

[joespride]

I am running a pair of Amperex orange label A-Frames in my Lab 12 Ref. I tried Genelex, Ei Gold pin, EH stock Tubes, and 1 other pair that currently escapes me. IMHO The Amperex were far and away the better tubes. When I ordered the Lab 12 I also bought an ANK4.1 LE as well as a Lampizator Gen 4 lev 4, I already owned an AGD Master 7, and an AGD R-1. Of all these it came down to the Lab 12 and the ANK 4.1, They are still doing Battle. The 4.1 is not quite broken in it has a VERY SMALL amount more in detail, while the Lab 12 has better organic sound...................However things end up I will be done and one of these 2 DACs will be my end game. I am leaning Lab 12 currently but have to give the 4.1 a fair shake. (I should also mention the 4.1 has a step up in th digital board department. It got the 5.1 and pro version board, Peter Fulton (AKA Digital Pete) was shocked I had that board and informed me he really enjoyed burning in the DAC for a few days awaiting a new face plate)

I am consistently puzzled why people insist on the latest greatest piece to pop up. I suppose for some its SQ and for others its specs.

 

[viggen]

Great, same as me, I was too stupid to look closely at the picture you provided, I would have seen the name! Hahaha

Amperex is what I found best in my Orchid. I’m a real sucker for the smooth analog Orchid sound. Can’t wait to read your comparo

yah i wanted to (virutally) smack your forehead because i know you have the same dac as me from the mhdt thread.

 

[viggen]

Just plugged in a WE396a tube with a Garage1217 adapter. Confirming it works.

Just learned the Garage adapter can go both ways. 6922 to 5670 and the other way around.

 

[joespride]

Is the Lab 12 SE, still eeking out a victory ?

 

[viggen]

I am enjoying the WE396a in the SE