[dezzadk]

I would look into the Pilgrim as more people give comparisons as they start getting them.

I've been looking at available reviews for the Pilgrim and the largest con for me would be the fact they describe it as too bright for some preferences (as I'm quite sensitive to that). Secondly the cable pentagon connector and the design. Looking at its graph I'm not sure how it comes off as too bright as it seems to roll off the treble significantly..

I've then been looking at the Hype 4 and the Hype 2. Its interesting that so many find it so similar to the hype 2 yet the bass should be reason to upgrade to the Hype 4 disregarding the neglible difference on the graph.

The Xenns Mangird Top looks quite bassy to both in comparison, I'm worried it might be too colored and muffled for the price given the heavy subbass.

 

[dezzadk]

I just saw the first reviews of CCA Hydro as well, seems like CCA raises the bar for budget IEMs again.. Like the dipswitches or not but some even go as far to say it has better bass than Xenns Mangird Top without being bloated

 

[MidnightSun]

I have a few that I'm still interested in

Xenns Mangird Top ($530)
Thieaudio Mk3 ($999)
Thieaudio Hype4 ($399)
Truthear Nova ($150)

I want a rather neutral IEM that works well with all kinds of music, but has enough impact in the bass to especially work well with EDM, techno, house, psytrance but also detailed and sparkly enough to work well with ambient, downtempo etc.

From this list, I'd say Hype 4 is the one if you have enough graph sniffing experience to gauge its tonality or have the opportunity to listen to it before buying it. IMO the Top isn't worth it because it's muddy and is in the upgrade dead zone: it's a bit expensive for what it is, and if you like the Hype4, and want to move on further, it's not worth stopping before the Monarch Mk III. The Nova is a Harman-tuned set, so not "neutral," and the Monarch Mk III, while IMO perfect with a little EQ (Peak 180hz -1.5dB Q2 - credits to @Golyatx), is an expensive blind buy. It might work out for you or very much not at all. I bought it after a 400 EUR set, and it was worth every penny to me, but I knew what I was getting.

However, if we take a step back, would you say that, besides the muddy bass, the scooped presence area coupled with the bright lower treble was your problem with the Cincotres? The treble can indeed come off too sharp if you have such an imbalance. Unless you hear things quite differently than me, something like the below could work for you. So maybe you could check some graphs that look similar, then reviews, then your account balance?

 

[Golyatx]

@MidnightSun you forgot to add 14khz mark

 

[dezzadk]

if we take a step back, would you say that, besides the muddy bass, the scooped presence area coupled with the bright lower treble was your problem with the Cincotres? The treble can indeed come off too sharp if you have such an imbalance.

I didn't find the bass particularly muddy but on some tracks that were warmly mixed I found the midbass bleeded into the mids and you had the tendencies to turn up the volume (unreasonably) high to compensate. Bass didn't have much depth and room compared to what I'm used to.

It was definetily sounding colored and not neutral or studio-tuned as it was advertised..

The treble was far too bright, any sparkly ambient with lots of details from bells to hihat, percussion, choir, leads sounded so dry and so bright that you were absolutely sure the recording wasn't supposed to sound like this from listening to the same tracks on various sources and sets over many years.

In warmly mixed recordings however it was less apparent, in those cases sometimes it came off "crisp" (positive) other times it came off colored as well (too dry).

ZiiGaat Cincotres and IKKO OH10 both let me down for the similar reason.. The timbre of the treble was too dry on Cincotres and on IKKO OH10 it was simply too "tssch" (scratchy in the treble) what I'd describe as sibilant, bright to the point it distorts the sound.. Maybe it has to do with compromises in the IEM drivers that I'm not technical enough to understand.. Both of them never sounded natural in the treble, it always came off as colored too bright.

My daily driver the Ultrasone Pro 900 is kind of dull at low volume it doesn't resolve very well and the mids+treble is kind of absent, but where it shines is moderately high to high volume at that point it makes up for the lack of treble at lower volume it becomes more even at high volume - which makes it incredibly hard to beat at high volume imo (especially with dnb, techno, etc) because it doesn't distort easily even if it is not as resolving as more expensive headphones .. Which still to this day makes it my preferred headphones for EDM beating Kennerton Magni, Campfire Cascade by a mile.. Campfire Cascade is not as resolving, you just drown out everything with bass which leaves no room for resolution in the treble.. Kennerton Magni just lacked a lot of subbass to be enjoyable to listen to EDM to, music sounded too bright again, kicks landed flat and the bass lacked depth/room.

 

[MidnightSun]

@MidnightSun you forgot to add 14khz mark

Because I didn't implement that, I like the upper treble as it is

 

[dezzadk]

Of course Dan's Audio Reviews also deems the Hype 4 a bit too bright/unnatural in the treble


These statements is what scares me the most from investing in higher end gear a treble thats too sparkly, sibilant or unnaturally extended is worse for me than a slightly muted/distant treble.

Passion4Sound said the same thing about my most anticipated closedback headphones Denon D9200 and I thought I had heard it all, but his review also came out quite a bit delayed after the others.

 

[MidnightSun]

Of course Dan's Audio Reviews also deems the Hype 4 a bit too bright/unnatural in the treble


These statements is what scares me the most from investing in higher end gear a treble thats too sparkly, sibilant or unnaturally extended is worse for me than a slightly muted/distant treble.

Passion4Sound said the same thing about my most anticipated closedback headphones Denon D9200 and I thought I had heard it all, but his review also came out quite a bit delayed after the others.

Dan's an interesting character. Has good ears but somehow the conclusions don't always make sense to me. He clearly likes vocals but uses the Mest Mk II as his main set which is anything but a vocal-focused one. He found the Monarch Mk III too bright and I'm sitting here enjoying how alive and sweet it is. We are clearly different, so are you, this makes it difficult.

Do you have a set where everything above 4-5 kHz sounded great to you? If yes, try to find something that has similar levels on the graphs (use both 60 dB [relative] and 1000 Hz [absolute] normalization), and compare it with sets that have varying amounts of bass. In general, the more bass you'll have the less problematic will the 4-5 kHz+ area be, and vice versa. Or... as you said, you could just buy dark sets like the Tea 2, the DZ4, the EJ07, or the Cerberus, and you won't have to worry about it ever again.

 

[dezzadk]

Dan's an interesting character. Has good ears but somehow the conclusions don't always make sense to me. He clearly likes vocals but uses the Mest Mk II as his main set which is anything but a vocal-focused one. He found the Monarch Mk III too bright and I'm sitting here enjoying how alive and sweet it is. We are clearly different, so are you, this makes it difficult.

Yeah I take everybody with a grain of salt because I've been disappointed too many times and there's too many people with weird tastes..

Thanks for the tips! I'm definetily not seeking something overly warm or dark, but I do not want to spear-pierce my ears with what trebleheads call "sparkly" treble.

 

[Golyatx]

Yeah I take everybody with a grain of salt because I've been disappointed too many times and there's too many people with weird tastes..

Thanks for the tips! I'm definetily not seeking something overly warm or dark, but I do not want to spear-pierce my ears with what trebleheads call "sparkly" treble.

You can try Etymotic ER2XR, very good natural timbre with kinda recesed hights, I loved them a LOT.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Of course Dan's Audio Reviews also deems the Hype 4 a bit too bright/unnatural in the treble


These statements is what scares me the most from investing in higher end gear a treble thats too sparkly, sibilant or unnaturally extended is worse for me than a slightly muted/distant treble.

Passion4Sound said the same thing about my most anticipated closedback headphones Denon D9200 and I thought I had heard it all, but his review also came out quite a bit delayed after the others.

Just buy Sony IER-M9 and be done with it

 

[dezzadk]

Just buy Sony IER-M9 and be done with it

Not even a bad recommendation.. Even oratory1990 suggested me the Sony MDR-Z1R.. I can't lie, that warm Sony house sound is probably close to what I like..

 

[o0genesis0o]

Not even a bad recommendation.. Even oratory1990 suggested me the Sony MDR-Z1R.. I can't lie, that warm Sony house sound is probably close to what I like..

Another good option is getting a HiBy android DAP and take advantage of the system-wide DSP and EQ to make whatever you want. Just grab an excellent IEM like Monarch III to get all the dual DD and EST goodness and the flat response, and then EQ the rest.

@Joe Bloggs @ Hiby is doing some mad scientist experimentations with built-in convolution filter capability as well. The soundstage and dynamic he can squeeze out of the cheap R4 is blowing my mind.

 

[dezzadk]

Another good option is getting a HiBy android DAP and take advantage of the system-wide DSP and EQ to make whatever you want. Just grab an excellent IEM like Monarch III to get all the dual DD and EST goodness and the flat response, and then EQ the rest.

Teach me something here What to go for when it comes to drivers in an IEM is there a video somewhere that explains how they work in symbiosis? Is EST something only available in the upper highend?

What do you guys think of the CCA Hydro overall and its 2DD+8BA ?

If its not all hype, then at least its a cheap way to experiment with a bit of tuning to know which direction to go (with the switches).

 

[o0genesis0o]

Teach me something here What to go for when it comes to drivers in an IEM is there a video somewhere that explains how they work in symbiosis? Is EST something only available in the upper highend?

What do you guys think of the CCA Hydro overall and its 2DD+8BA ?


If its not all hype, then at least its a cheap way to experiment with a bit of tuning to know which direction to go (with the switches).

Most of the time (not always), IEM splits the signal into different parts to feed different drivers. The Sonion EST has a certain softness to note attacks comparing to BA supertweeters, which I find pleasing. I can also push the EST higher in EQ without making the treble edgy like BA.

The dual DD implementation of ThieAudio also sounds quite nice. So something like Monarch III has everything you need to EQ whatever you want and sound fantastic. I also had good experience with the old Moondrop Blessing 2, though the treble is not as yummy as EST when boosted. Some DD set I have here does not respond that well to EQ.