[Br777]

As promised I am starting a Three  Four amp showdown with the amps stated in the title of this thread
 
I can only afford 1 amp so 3 of these will be up for sale by the time we are finished here. 
just remember folks.. I'm an amateur.  I have very little experience comparing amps, and very little experience in the audiphile field as a whole.. so dont go writing a bible about this stuff...
 
My final impressions are now posted in this thread.  Any changes from hear on out will be granular or simply clarifying what is stated here.
 
I've made up my mind that the CTH sounds the best. its soundstage is bigger in every way, and it sounds fuller, and more alive, the high mids and highs are more defined and clear.  the all around sound is more defined and clear.  All of that said, the difference between the EF5 and the CTH is not big, but it is enough to keep me coming back to the CTH and lose interest in the EF5.   Beyond my personal preference, i simply think the CTH brings the truest, clearest, most alive, balanced and natural sound to the table
I used an RCA cleartop 12au7 on both amps for this comparison.   So that settles it, the cheapest priced amp sounds the best.  and its narry a bit larger than the decware portable to boot.  who woulda thunk it!
 
The Gear used in this showdown:
Source: PC Win7-64 bit/Foobar/wasapi/lossless files/parametric eq
Dac: Keces 151-MKII - $300
Cans:  The Mighty Amboyna Burl Thunderpants!  A.K.A.  Smeggy made Custom Modded Fostex T50RP Orthodynamic headphones - $750
Cables:  radio shack! - $10ish
ears: human - x2 - cleaned with Q-tips blue squirty ball thing, and that peroxide goop that you get at the pharmacy. - Came free with my body.. they have approximately 29 and 1/2 years burn in.  I am the first owner, and they are in like new condition, though there is a small hole in each one.. it does not effect the sound quality. 
 
The Amps:
 
Hifiman Ef5 - tube/Solid State hybrid - RCA clear top 12au7 tube -  www.head-direct.com - burned in for hundreds of hours
 
Decware Zen Head portable Solid State amp - ranked as one of the best on Skylab's bajillion portable amp shootout (it was like 37 amps compared, or something) -  www.decware.com - burned in for hundreds of hours
 
Schiit Audio Asgard - Solid State -  the underdog in this competition.   www.schiit.com - will burn in at least 50 hours before opening fire on the other amps.
 
Cavalli CTH - compact tube hybrid DIY'd by a fellow HeadFier named "mrslim"
 
 
IMPRESSIONS:
 
Zen Head -UPDATE 8.7.10
upon further consideration i feel it probaby wasnt really fair to include this amp with the others.  it really isnt meant to be a home amp, and comparing it to such gives it an unfair disadvantage, and makes it look like a bad amp, which it is not. 
furthermore, there is a good chance that this amp does not synergize well with the thunderpants which can happen with any amp/can combination. 
 
highs are crisper and more pronounced than ef5 - sharper, clearer, and louder symbals, top ends of vocals, snare drums, etc...

overall sound is a little less smoothe than ef5.  overall it is more precise and punchy, but not as musical.  its sort of edgy and cutting compared to the ef5's smoothe silky sound.
a little edgier and more cutting and defined sound than ef5 in every way
 
the sound is not very engaging or pleasing to me.  kind of dry would be another way to put it.

ef5
rounder, fuller sound due to more forward bass and low mids, but less prominent upper mids / highs.  overall sound is a bit more laid back - voices are fuller, clearer, more true to life and pure sounding.. liquid is a good word.  the ef5 definately wins the vocal presentation, and frankly the overall music presentation.. its like adding more musicality.. but tubes will do that.
 
Schiit asgard-
more attack, more precision, tighter sound, and slightly more forward mids and highs, and slightly thinner sound (thinner should not be read as bad or lacking, its simply a comparison to the fuller sound of the ef5 which is not better... they are different sounds for different tastes.
however...the asgard went back to Schiit, and the Decware is up for sale...
 
Cavalli CTH
Vs the EF5 the CTH has a bigger soundstage, more sparkly highs, and a fuller overall sound.  The music feels bigger and more "alive"
The EF5 sounds a bit compressed and held back in certain frequencies, as well as the overall presentation next to the CTH
Beyond that they both sound great, and quite similar.  the differences are just enough to be definately audible, but nothing drastic by any means.
 
on a side note. i tried another tube in the CTH - its a Russian tube that says 6H6N 9004 and has a black top... it sounds the best out of anything so far. a clear improvement over the RCA clear top.
 
I would say in terms of ovarall sound quality, and my preference the amps would go in this order - CTH>EF5>asgard>zen head....
 
 
 
photos of all the amps in the competition: (and a little bonus shot of the thunderpants, and dac
 

 

 

[NapalmK]

Nice impressions. Can't wait to hear how the Asgard compares.

 

[Br777]

a/bing some dave matthews band - Album..Big Whisky and the Gru Grux King  Song- you and me
 
definately noticing that daves voice sounds a lot fuller and more present and real on the ef5. 
 
on the decware the vocals sound thin and raspy in comparison to the ef5. 
 
it must be something in the mid/low mid/bass representation on the ef5 because the sound just fills out every time i go back to it.  It makes the zen head sound thin and anemic like something is missing in its soundscape.  it will take some time to really narrow down what that is.
 
I guess this is the classic tube vs. SS. sound.   I imagine the better sound is due not only to the tube in the ef5, but the fact that Orthos at this level of quality are really prone to shining in the mids with the right amp, and i think I have heard many times that nothing beats a tube for good mids... that would certainly seem to be the case here.
 
With my last cans - ATH W1000x - I also had some time to spend with both of these amps, but with those cans,  the winner was hands down the zen head.
when i switched to the ef5 the whole sound of the W1000X just muddied and got sloppy and pretty undesirable.  I had a weak impression of the ef5 for that reason but clearly this was just a case of mismatched components, which i was unsure about until today.
 
FWIW -I am doing my darndest to make sure these amps are at the same volume level.
 
switching between amps is not ideal of course because i have to pull cables and dont get that crucial instant back and forth - which of course would make this whole process a heck of a lot easier
 
 
 

 

[sachu]

I didn't get a chance to listen to the TPs with the Asgard..I might be able to swing that sometime down the road with kevin. 
 
But my feeling is it should do pretty good. Just don't expect the world of it. It isn't as resolving, I do find the top rolled off or rather the details to be veiled out in the highs and the bass lacked the control that my other amps have. Still for 250$ it is a hella good amp and should bring lots of aural pleasure.
 
But listening to my TPs out of the liquid Gold and then switching to the wharfie zebs it just makes me realize that the TPs are in dire need of retuning. Great balance all the way across, save for the roll off in the bass.

 

[smeggy]

These latest ones are not light anywhere

 

[Br777]

listening to another Dave Matthews Band track.  Album: Crash, Song - rapunzal, a full and dynamic song  - violin, guitar, vocals, drums, bass, sax... a lot going on
 
the ef5 seems to get a bit mushy in comparison to the zen head - though i wonder if this is simply due to its added presense in the mid and low mid department muddying things up a bit, which is of course more due to the Thunderpants, than the amp
 
the zen head certainly does not sound bad by any stretch.. its just when there are two different sounds happening, and there is no way to instantly A/B, things can get a bit tricky when it comes to deciding a preference
 
onto jurassic 5 - True Hip hop at its finest!  Album - Feedback .  Song - Gotta Understand.   Tight, pounding bass, an excellent show of of what the Thunderpants are capable of in the bottom end.  Lots of vocals, and a DJ whippin up one helluva beat!
 
every time i start with the zen head, i bob my head and say.. well that sounds pretty good.. maybe the mids arent so shabby.
 
then i go back to the ef5.. and it wins the mids back... now thats true cause Every single day I live I'm obligated just to say it like it - t - i - is.. yeah i know.. nobody got that reference.. anyway...EF5 FTW!

 

[Br777]

Quote:

But listening to my TPs out of the liquid Gold and then switching to the wharfie zebs it just makes me realize that the TPs are in dire need of retuning. Great balance all the way across, save for the roll off in the bass.

Your TP's are rolled off in the bass??!?!??!  something clearly changed in that department... I feel like there's a subwoofer on my head....
 
BTW i thought you already had your TP's retuned... is it just that you keep getting them refined as your sound standards increase, or do they degrade somehow?

 

[sachu]

Quote:

These latest ones are not light anywhere

Well,i think when i first got them these TPs  were really bass heavy. After tuning the roll  off has come about. Need to hit up Don about the changes he made to the tuning (on swt61's pair) since then. Bring mine upto current spec.
My zebs are my current reference however. They are just more natural. But again they can't match comfort levels that the TPs afford. Always a compromise somewhere.
 
Gary, you should try out the Wharfie drivers in the deep cup TPs you turned out. if they work as I think they will, and we can use O2 pads on it..man that would be just phenomenal.

 

[Br777]

Next Up... Tool.  My favorite Metal band of all time. Album: Lateralus, Song - Ticks and Leeches
 
Fast, intracate pounding drums, Screaming, Knarly distorted guitar and bass and vocals... Precise with lots of quick stops..dynamics changes and a few mellow smoothe passages ending in a proper bad ass fury of drums guitar bass and Screams from the depths of hell! 
 
Distortion and speed together always show you what an amp is made of in the precision department.
 
There is only one way to listen to this song.   as loud as you can stand it.. so here goes... Summoning extreme volume and turning it up to 11 in 3...2...1....  YEE-HAW!
 
by the end of this song, the speed and resolve of these two amps should be flushed out nicely.... and it will probably be time to give my ears a rest.. and go out and break something!!!!

 
SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!  SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKIN MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....
 
IS THIS WHAT YOU WAAANTEEEEEEEEED!!!!   IS THIS WHAT YOU HAD IN MIIIIND!.....
 
I HOPE! I HOPE! I HOOOOOOOPE! YOOOOOOOOU! CHOOOOOOOOOOKE!

 

[Br777]

well the same results seem to keep coming up
 
The zen head resolved the speed of ticks and leeches better... the drum intricacy was more apparent, buuuuuut... the vocals lost their sparkle and felt thin.   The mids just cant compete with the ef5
 
oh if i could only get these two amps to breed...
 
im going to try an experiment and pull out some low mid and bass next time i play this song on the ef5 and see if that resolve is just hiding under some increased and therefore muddy low mids and bass.
 
The more i switch between the 2 the more i cant decide which one i like better, though i think the more true to life full sound of the ef5 is going to deal the death blow to the zen head. 
especially if i can find the resolve hiding under those bloaty lower frequencies on the ef5.   As i always say, its easy to remove frequencies you dont like in excess, but adding them, or trying to add other qualities to an amp isnt so easy.

 

[Br777]

I HOOOOOPE I HOOOOOOPE I HOOOOOOOO. - oh. excuse me is this thing still on...
 
well.. that pretty much clinches it... the EF5 has wooped the zen head.    I have pretty much confirmed that the the EF5 packs a meaner fuller low end and low mid.  Since the Thunderpants are so bass and low mid heavy already, it simply brings them to a point where the excess low frequencies start to drown out some of the mids creating the illusion of less speed, resolve, and precision.
I dont blame the amp or the cans, its just not really possible to introduce such extremes in a single driver without creating some conflict
 
however... this situation is readily remediable by our friend Mr. Parametric EQ.  a little adjustment, and all the finer points of the zen head are attainable with the ef5.  Yet the ef5 has more finer points than the zen head.. mainly those stunning mids...
 
 
... and the zen head is down.. it looks like he's taken a shot to the chest... he's no longer moving... paramedics have rushed in...
 
The Ef5 meanwhile is re loading, and will take some rest in preperation for its battle with the illusive..the small but mighty.... weighing in at... roughly 5.5 pounds.. the Schiit... Asgard....
 
Stay tuned... The final battle begins on July 6th.. well according to fedex anyway...

 

[maverickronin]

Nice coverage of the Mighty Amboyna Burl ThunderPants!  I'm interested in how the Asgard stacks up.

 

[francisdemarte]

Great comparison, sounds more like a bad pairing between the TP's and the Zen. The EF5 really sounds closer to a SS amp than a tube amp because it is a hybrid.
 
Have you tried the EF5 with other tubes? The tung-sol is a bit on the thick side in the lower mids.  Do you have the EF5 set at High or Low gain with the TP's?
 

 

[chesebert]

Did you use your Assemblage as source input for Asgard?
 
Quote:

Well,i think when i first got them these TPs  were really bass heavy. After tuning the roll  off has come about. Need to hit up Don about the changes he made to the tuning (on swt61's pair) since then. Bring mine upto current spec.
My zebs are my current reference however. They are just more natural. But again they can't match comfort levels that the TPs afford. Always a compromise somewhere.
 
Gary, you should try out the Wharfie drivers in the deep cup TPs you turned out. if they work as I think they will, and we can use O2 pads on it..man that would be just phenomenal.

 
@Br777.  I think your source may be a bottleneck for Ef5 and Asgard.    I have already discounted all portable amp as not worthwhile for home use.
 

 

[Br777]

i have the black glass, and the rca clear top, and of course that funky transistor you sold me, but i dont ever use it cause it doesnt sound so nice compared to tubes.
between the two i prefer the black glass, but i could certainly give the clear top a go again...   I have never truly taken time to a/b back and forth with them.. it would probably be harder to discern a difference between those two tubes than it is to compare these two amps.
 
I wouldnt say the zen sounds bad with the TP's, just not as good as the EF5, and some of that is just my preference, while some of it is more like flat out quality to me..
All the comparisons i am making are just that.. comparisons.. the zen doesnt sound anemic and empty.. it just doesnt sound as full as the ef5..  its all relative.
I still think the zen head is a great amp for its size/price. 
 
I suppose it is an accepted statement in this field to say that not all amps match well with all cans, so sure, that could be the case here for sure.
 
Though in all fairness i dont have much experience in the audiophile realm.. so what do i know about any of this.

  I should make that clear in the OP.. doing that now...
 
oh and im using the low gain setting on the EF5 .. should i have it on high?