[jrosenth]

I was at circuit city today and noticed a couple of small dvd players that actually had a coaxial output, notably the Polaroid DHM-0100.

Um, just for kicks what would something like this sound like with an external dac - better or worse than a cd player of the same price? Anyone have an experience with using something like this?

 

[shawntp]

Well its hard to say without listening, the technical specs wont help much in making a prediction ...you just have to listen.

There is plenty of potential for this cheap player with optical outs to introduce poor quality to your system.

A cd player can introduce jitter (where the data is provided at an inconsistant rate as the disc spins). Actually all players have jitter, high end ones have far less and in many high-end systems people use a $500+ CD player just to spin the disc and feed a DAC.

Also aside from jitter from the CD Player, optical/toslink is not the best format since it also is prone to jitter (direct digital out is preferred over toslink when possible).

All this is just making the case that the could be a great buy or could be a poor product. You just have to see.

I use the optical out on my Airport Express to feed my Musical Fidelity X-DACV3 and I compared this to a ~$100 Sony CDP and could not here any differences but my dac has a re-timing buffer.

It might just depend on your DAC. I hope this was helpful and not just ramblings ...I don't really have an answer but more wanted to present info that might help you find your own awnser.

I would say that probably using a cheap player though a better DAC will have better sound than that same player stand-alone ...when you start talking about differences in jitter you are really splitting hairs in a Mid-Fi scenario.

 

[shawntp]

I just read that you said the player has coaxial out so you can disregard the comments about optical/toslink. Just the spin of the disc would be the issue.

At that price it does sound like a good deal though.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawntp I just read that you said the player has coaxial out so you can disregard the comments about optical/toslink. Just the spin of the disc would be the issue.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, from my understanding coaxial outputs are also susceptible to jitter?

Anyhow, I can only relate my own experiences. I'm using a relatively cheap Philips DVD player as a transport to my Dialogue II DAC and it performs adequately. I did try using my Eastern Electric MiniMax as a transport before I sold it and it noticably improved the sound with a tighter, more focused sound but IMO it wouldn't be worth that amount of money for the difference. Unfortunately my situation deems that I use my DVD player for the transport so until that changes or I find a better DivX capable DVD player that is reasonably priced the Philips will suffice.

 

[shawntp]

True ...my understanding is that toslink is far worse though which I guess was my point.

 

[strether]

For $30 it's worth investigating this player.

I've been using a portalbe DVD player only slightly larger than a PCDP as a transport -- a BenQ DVDgem, for sale here on ebay -- but there's a problem: when I listen via its coaxial-digital-out and an external DAC, the first second or two of each track gets cut off. This is most irritating, as you can imagine. (Still, the player sounds good from it's analogue audio-out -- better than PCDPs that I've heard (though it's oddly cable-sensitive) -- and I like the remote.)

So that's one potential problem you might check for in the store, if you have a portable DAC.

 

[Glassman]

jitter has little to do with disc spinning and also tales about toslink being inferior are way too much simplifying..

this will most likely have terrible digital output just as any other cheap DVD player..

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glassman jitter has little to do with disc spinning and also tales about toslink being inferior are way too much simplifying.. this will most likely have terrible digital output just as any other cheap DVD player..

I'm curious, what DVD players have you tried and can you describe the differences between them as well as how they sounded in comparison to a higher end transport?

 

[Glassman]

it's natural to them for many reasons.. clock is synthesised from 27M videoclock in a noisy video processor, there is considerable EMI which just passes out of the box through the cable, because there's usually no output transformer.. I'd expect the more expensive players to be cleaner from the EMI standpoint, but I'd be surprised if there ever was properly implemented digital output / clock scheme.. on top of that many times the output is not even bitperfect.. you can't expect wonders..

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glassman it's natural to them for many reasons.. clock is synthesised from 27M videoclock in a noisy video processor, there is considerable EMI which just passes out of the box through the cable, because there's usually no output transformer.. I'd expect the more expensive players to be cleaner from the EMI standpoint, but I'd be surprised if there ever was properly implemented digital output / clock scheme.. on top of that many times the output is not even bitperfect.. you can't expect wonders..

So are you saying that from a technical standpoint this what you expect but haven't actually listened?

 

[Glassman]

of course I've listened.. frankly, it wasn't the greatest experience I've ever had.. it was no surprise either..

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glassman of course I've listened.. frankly, it wasn't the greatest experience I've ever had.. it was no surprise either..

Ok, again I'll ask which players you've tested? In what system? How they compared to each other and to higher end players?

Sorry if it sounds like I'm hounding you but I'm just trying to get a feel for why you say they're all terrible. I understand the technical issues but my personal listening experience has yeilded reasonably positive results given the cost to performance ratio. In my opinion using a cheap Philips DVD player as a transport to the Dialogue II DAC has given me pretty decent performance for the cost of around $300. I would take this system over the Cambridge Azur 640C and Rega Planet 2K I owned previously. A better transport will definately yield even better results not to mention a nice upgrade path but to say that the Philips is terrible simply because it's a cheap DVD player would be misleading and short changing the potential a cheap DVD player can play in a reasonably priced audio system.

 

[Glassman]

it was Pioneer DV-565A, but it doesn't matter all that much which one you choose.. I was refering to the actual digital output, which is of course only a part of the system.. just went to see what's under the hood of your DAC and I can tell you that you'd definitely benefit from better transport.. it's the DAC which makes you like how your system sounds, not your DVD player.. have you tried your DAC using different transports?

 

[iScream]

Please excuse me for jumping in on this conversation but you guys seem pretty knowledgable and I can't stop wondering something. If you use a DAC with anti-jitter, something that buffers the input stream and precisely reclocks it before converting to analog, doesn't that remove any concern for the quality of the transport?

It seems so simple to me, but I'm sure there must be something fundamental I'm missing...

Thanks,
Chris

 

[labrat]

Deleted.