Cayin N3 Hi-Res DAP with AKM4490 DAC, apt-X Bluetooth, and Line, USB & Coax Out for $150

Andykong · Mar 17, 2017 at 11:21 PM

originalsnuffy said:
Andy,

I admire your professionalism in not comparing your self to the competition. It is probably best if that is left to the user community.

The only observation I would offer is that the iphone is capable of playing back 24 bit 48 khz music files. Of course you need to feed it an ALAC file with those specs (but no more than that). I personally don't think that the iphone has the proper circuitry to bring out the benefits of files with those resolutions, but that is what is can natively handle. Of course those would be user created files; you can't purchase those from Apple directly. I have converted some hi res files on the iphone to that spec and they do play back. Personally on that device I am not convinced that using up memory space for the higher res files is worthwhile. Others may disagree (around here that is a given).

If I recall; the N3 has a DAC mode. In that case, the iphone could function as a storage tank for higher res files that are then played back through the N3. I have done that with my iphone with other devices. It does require the camera connecting kit from Apple. The good news for Cayin is that you would still end up with a N3 customer in that scenario.

Thanks for your correction, I have edited my original message immediately, but I didn't get the time to go through the forum message again, was jammed packed when I come back from the Singapore trip.

You suggestion is spot on, but we need to have a lightning camera adaptor and a type C cable to do that. Maybe the new iphone with Type C connector instead of lighting will simplified the setup, lets hope Apple will stay within the Type C standard and don't "re-invented" the Type C connectors in the new iphone.

Andykong · Mar 17, 2017 at 11:27 PM

dnullify said:
With my recent experience comparing my phone to a real DAP, I'm inclined to agree. Leaving everything on my phone in 320 for casual listening in the gym and such, and getting a DAP for a hi-fi experience seems to be the logical solution.

Well, I've ordered an N3. I'll see how it goes!

So you have join the drop. Great, please come back and tell us if you like what you heard when you receive the N3.

By the way, unless you want to stay connected, otherwise the N3 can be used as sport DAP as well, its small and light enough to tuck into any armband, and I guess you can still hear the different while you are jogging.

Andykong · Mar 17, 2017 at 11:39 PM

whitexp said:

We don't and can't interference with Aliexpress in the past, but the N3 probably is a different product that we'll reconsider our position with Aliexpress. We'll discuss this topic in April, the time when the N3 started to appear in oversee market. Please stay tune for my update, I hope I can do something about this promptly.

Andykong · Mar 17, 2017 at 11:55 PM

pewterlocks said:
Hi Andy,
How about us Canadians, I would love to get this to go with my NOT( which is my all time favorite). Do not want to buy from the states as we get screwed over with the exchange rate.
So how about setting us up?

bruce1967 said:
I know [COLOR=000000]AVGearShop[/COLOR] is going to be carrying the N3 but they don't know exactly when.

mr trev said:
I just shot them a quick msg. today about the N3. If I get any news back, I'll post it here too

bruce1967 said:
OK thanks. They could only tell me they would have them. No price and no exact date.

The Canadian market will receive N3 pretty soon, they are very responsive to the N3 suggestion, much faster then the i5 launch which they tends to take a "wait and see" mode. I'll keep this community informed when I have updated on N3 shipment to Canada. :beerchug:

By the way, we'll organize a N3 world tour in April, I hope there will be a Canada group among us. I was a bit disappointed that the i5 tour didn't have any Canadian reviewers on board, I hope the N3 will have a better coverage.

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 12:02 AM

alexeia said:
Hello!
I am sorry if my question is stupid, but does this DAP handles both 44.1k and 48k frequencies well? I am asking because, for example, FiiO advertises their "Dual crystal oscillators" technology "ensuring lowest jitter and highest precision", and even cheaper devices like SMSL M2 use "two independent high-precision clock for audio sation", but I dont see something like this in this device's specs.

A lot of friends has clarified the issues already, I can just added one sentence to the issue. N3 has dual crystal oscillators in its circuit, one for 44.1kHz and its multiples, and the other for 48kHz and its multiples. We used to include this as a "feature" in our previous DAP, but then we notice this become a "standard" feature that appears in each and every DAP already, so we didn't include it in our N3 promotion campaign, but please be rest assures that from technology perspective, the N3 is well-equipped

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 12:08 AM

mr trev said:
Did a quick scan through the thread and didn't see it mentioned, so I'll ask…

What's the deal with charging on the N3? If I'm using it as a DAC, will it drain my laptop battery trying to charge itself? Can charging be switched off in this instance? @Andykong
inquiring minds want to know

@originalsnuffy
I believe AlexeiA might have been referring to the fact that the Fiio players use separate clock chip for 44.1 and 48 khz sample rates. Not sure if the N3 does, or if it even matters

If N3 is connected to a computer as USB-DAC, N3 will use the external power and charging at the same time.

The N3 is more or less designed as an external USB sound card in mind, so to be able to work in a desktop environment, we need to stay online for more then 12 hours, and that's why we decided to operate in this mode.

The current firmware does not offer user control on USB power consumption. I can investigate the possibility to implement a control feature in future firmware, but I have to explain in advance that this is not a priority item and will check out after we finish the bug fix, please pardon the delay.

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 12:13 AM

barndoor said:
Hi Andy,
Will the N3 be at Headroom in London in a couple of weeks?
Thanks.

The N3 and i5 will appear at the Headroom show for sure, look for oBrovo under Audio Sanctuary booth, David from oBrovo is my personal friend, he loved our DAP and wanted to use the i5 and N3 as his demo source, so I gave him that at CanJam Singapore.

We are working with Audio Sanctuary about sending other portable products to his booth, will come back and report here when I have a confirmed arrangement.

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 5:31 AM

bruce1967 said:
I wonder too if among the accessories included with the N3 will there be a couple screen protectors. Probably since there is a silicone case but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

Screen protector is pre-installed on the N3. when you take N3 out of the package, make sure you peel off the front layer (thin plastic film) of the screen protector. Be careful while you do this, I had in one occasion lifted the screen protector slightly when I tried to remove the thin plastic film. that was during the setup time of CanJam Singapore, I was rushing and there were around 10 new DAPs that we need to open-box at the same time.

We have also included a spare screen protector in the package.

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 5:34 AM

keygrr said:
asking again - does N3 have configurable crossfade/fade-in/fade-out features?

I need to check again, I left my N3 at office, but from what I recall, N3 has fade-in but no fade-out, and the feature is not configurable.

If I check the N3 and find out the actual feature is different from what I recall, I'll keep you updated.

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 5:49 AM

alexeia said:
Another stupid question from me: should I prefer to buy DSD files over hi-res flac to play on this device? Shops usually have both versions, but sell them separately. AFAIK this device convert dsd to pcm internally, so is there any reason to prefer DSD? Also, back to my first question, if N3 doesn't have "dual crystal oscillators", than on 44.1kHz multiples it may have more "jitter", so DSD may sounds even worse than flac?

The DSD vs PCM was a very hot topic around 10-15 years ago, there were lot of extremely hot discussion everyday, everywhere, I sure don't want to start the war again. I don't have a preference on the format, I like the naturalness of DSD, and I also enjoy the dynamic presentation of hi-res PCM. So lets look at the issue from a more practical direction:

Other then N3, will you play the file on other device such a mobile phone or DAP that doesn't native decode DSD? If that is the case, go for PCM version. If N3 is your only playback option, then I'll suggest you go for DSD version.

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 6:03 AM

fourrobert13 said:
I doubt it. Only one person in this thread to my knowledge has a N3 at the moment. Probably end of this month or April before we get any comparisons (after tour units and after it's released).

Alex (Twiste6) and nmatheis have the Engineering sample from CanJam NYC, we shall collect the samples back and replace that with a production unit ASAP.

There were several dozen of HeadFier have heard the N3 in person during the CanJam NYC and CanJam Singapore, their opinion on N3 Sound signature might also be relevant.

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 6:06 AM

docholliday said:
Question, does the N3 have ReplayGain? My smallest player right now is the X1-II and it's a complete pain in the ass - no gapless, no ReplayGain. Nothing like having a set of really sensitive IEMs in and blowing out an eardrum when a song changes tracks from good DR to brickwall, loudness war mixing.

Sorry, N3 does not support Replay Gain at the moment.

Andykong · Mar 18, 2017 at 6:13 AM

riffrafff said:
Hi. Your link mentions an "SA2500 Digital Audio Processor." I am not familiar with this. Who manufactures this audio processor?

The full-name of this chipset is HBC2500A HiBy Music. Ths is a custom FPGA from HiBy Music and it takes care of Digital signal processing before the bitstream enters the DAC chipset. One of its primarily function is to reduce the jitter on various digital audio signal.

fish1050 · Mar 18, 2017 at 12:57 PM

docholliday said:
It wouldn't bother me as much that they are "taking forever". But...they're starting to vaporware the "next firmware". They should've delayed the release by a short bit and actually completed the features they advertised, or not advertised it and let those features be pleasant suprises for customers.

I'm also sympathetic to a software development cycle, as I write software. But, either offer realistic timelines or decent explanations when it's delayed. I understand that things don't always go as planned, but don't just blindly keep saying "in the next firmware, coming next month". At least if they offered up some alpha release, we'd feel there's more than one person working on it a hour a day, no matter how "unpolished" that alpha is. I'd hope that in a month, at least one feature/fix could get done. Hell, instead of releasing a version with a changelog of 20 things, just release a quick "hotfix" style with one thing!

It's a great el-cheapo player, good SQ, but buggy.

Since the N3 and the X1-II use the same base OS, if the N3 comes out working "as advertised" and fairly bug free, it'll look really, really bad for Fiio. Don't get me wrong, I love Fiio's SQ and pricing structure, I just think they need to fire & hire some better firmware developers!

You are right the realistic timelines etc.. but from Fiio's point of view they are trying to keep their customers interested. If they came out and said it might be 3 months before we fix issue X in the next firmware how many people would be willing to wait? But at some point people will start to realize it is all hot air and wishful thinking and will indeed look to other products.

Meder Bakirov · Mar 18, 2017 at 1:04 PM

First impressions (in Russian): https://youtu.be/EO3UII4dmBU

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