iPhone 7 Will Revolutionize Portable Audio for the First Time in a Decade | Page 52 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

elfary · Sep 23, 2016 at 3:03 PM

rugbyplayer said:
artmuzz said:

I bought the Lightning to Headphone jack adapter for my iPhone 6S Plus and I am liking the sound quality. IMO the sound has a wider soundstage through the adapter and a slight bit more bass.

Click to expand...

That makes no sense with the measurements we have showing decreased dynamic range on the adapter.

Check out sound science forum for a through set of objective measurements of the dongle.

What about output impedance ?

Neglecting the Zout because of a few dbs drop in dynamics that are below the16th bit makes no sense to me.

Because it makes no sense for anyone skilled in headphone listening that knows about output impedance, linearity and damping.

A dramatic drop in output impedance it's waaaayyyyyyy moooooreeeeeeee audiblie than a decreased performance in the LSB of the audio (LSB-> least significant bits)

And all subjective reviews of skilled listeners using high end earphones acknowledge that undeniable fact.

Anyway from post #1 you are so heavily biased against the dongle that one can only wonder why is that.

If the tonality it's not right, then nothing else really matters.

colonelkernel8 · Sep 23, 2016 at 3:10 PM

I'll post this again since my last one was buried. I'm having issues with the digital output of the iPhone 7. I'm getting clicks and pops using my Sony PHA-1A. This does not happen running the same iOS on my iPad mini 4. Has anyone else had issues with their various third party MFi DACs connected to the iPhone 7?

Duncan · Sep 23, 2016 at 3:12 PM

h-man said:
And the verdict is.......?

Sorry - not been home long

Anyhow, probably not a fair comparison, considering this is an ipad and not an iphone, however - the dongle drops some of the treble energy / detail compared to the ipads headphone out - but, the bass appears to be more tuneful (more mid bass emphasis - draw on that as you will if you agree that that would equal tuneful) - but, what is a right royal PITA is that you cannot volume match - not quite sure if they're independent volumes, or if the dongle is quieter than the ipad - either way, my opinions are relatively meaningless if you're a full on 'must be volume matched to be valid' kind of person...

Overall, ignoring the above, I would say that the dongle plays the safe route, an all rounder - heck, if you've got an iphone that supports IOS10, and a lightning connector, and - the headphone jack is iffy, this is the cheapest damned thing I can think of to get you back on the road...

For its modest price, if you find the 'i' products a little hot in the treble, this could easily be a god-send

[Edit] - oh the irony, listening to the dongle, just looked at my battery indicator - thought, oh - better put it on charge, then - realised - hmm, can't with this connected!

Wonder how long it will be before someone makes a double lightning adapter (if possible!) that allows you to play - and charge!

[Further edit] - hmm, on the assumption that the DAC in the dongle isn't affected by anything in the iphone 7 (sounds the same as playing back through this ipad), then - you know what, this tempts me to get a 7+ to replace the G5 / B&O - the SQ with my Onkyo E700M is far better than I was expecting - which is a little annoying!

BlinkST · Sep 23, 2016 at 3:33 PM

duncan said:
[Edit] - oh the irony, listening to the dongle, just looked at my battery indicator - thought, oh - better put it on charge, then - realised - hmm, can't with this connected!

Wonder how long it will be before someone makes a double lightning adapter (if possible!) that allows you to play - and charge!

[Further edit] - hmm, on the assumption that the DAC in the dongle isn't affected by anything in the iphone 7 (sounds the same as playing back through this ipad), then - you know what, this tempts me to get a 7+ to replace the G5 / B&O - the SQ with my Onkyo E700M is far better than I was expecting - which is a little annoying!

Belkin has one coming later.

Duncan · Sep 23, 2016 at 3:48 PM

blinkst said:
Belkin has one coming later.

Thanks for the heads-up - I think... looks like i might well end up back in the Apple fold (unsure whether to put a

or a

at the end of this sentence!)

shotgunshane · Sep 23, 2016 at 3:49 PM

colonelkernel8 said:
I'll post this again since my last one was buried. I'm having issues with the digital output of the iPhone 7. I'm getting clicks and pops using my Sony PHA-1A. This does not happen running the same iOS on my iPad mini 4. Has anyone else had issues with their various third party MFi DACs connected to the iPhone 7?

The 6S+ has that issue with some dacs (random and very low level). Probably not enough owners of the 7 yet to know if it's widespread. You might want to try exchanging the iPhone and see if its batch related or not.

oryan_dunn · Sep 23, 2016 at 3:50 PM

blinkst said:
Belkin has one coming later.

colonelkernel8 · Sep 23, 2016 at 4:08 PM

shotgunshane said:
The 6S+ has that issue with some dacs (random and very low level). Probably not enough owners of the 7 yet to know if it's widespread. You might want to try exchanging the iPhone and see if its batch related or not.

Thanks for the information. Ugh, why does it always seem like I have to do this when I get a new phone?

shurealltheway · Sep 23, 2016 at 4:26 PM

elfary said:
Check out sound science forum for a through set of objective measurements of the dongle.

What about output impedance ?

Neglecting the Zout because of a few dbs drop in dynamics that are below the16th bit makes no sense to me.

Because it makes no sense for anyone skilled in headphone listening that knows about output impedance, linearity and damping.

A dramatic drop in output impedance it's waaaayyyyyyy moooooreeeeeeee audiblie than a decreased performance in the LSB of the audio (LSB-> least significant bits)

And all subjective reviews of skilled listeners using high end earphones acknowledge that undeniable fact.

Anyway from post #1 you are so heavily biased against the dongle that one can only wonder why is that.

If the tonality it's not right, then nothing else really matters.

My experience mirrors Elfary. When I use the dongle in my iPhone 6 Plus, I get slightly muted dynamics and a decreased soundstage. It's not dramatic, but it's noticeable.

shurealltheway · Sep 23, 2016 at 4:30 PM

elfary said:
Check out sound science forum for a through set of objective measurements of the dongle.

What about output impedance ?

Neglecting the Zout because of a few dbs drop in dynamics that are below the16th bit makes no sense to me.

Because it makes no sense for anyone skilled in headphone listening that knows about output impedance, linearity and damping.

A dramatic drop in output impedance it's waaaayyyyyyy moooooreeeeeeee audiblie than a decreased performance in the LSB of the audio (LSB-> least significant bits)

And all subjective reviews of skilled listeners using high end earphones acknowledge that undeniable fact.

Anyway from post #1 you are so heavily biased against the dongle that one can only wonder why is that.

If the tonality it's not right, then nothing else really matters.

325xia · Sep 23, 2016 at 10:43 PM

arftech said:
I don't have the SE-846 but do have the Westone UM Pro50 and Oppo HA-2 which I like. Have you used a portable DAC connected to your iPhone and if you have what is the sound comparison versus the included iPhone dongle? This question is for anyone of you all.

My 7 Plus on order and can't wait to see what synergy it brings to my IEMs directly connected to the phone minus the HA-2.

I do not have a portable DAC. Just iPhone 7 Plus to SE-846

west0ne · Sep 24, 2016 at 12:01 AM

elfary said:
Check out sound science forum for a through set of objective measurements of the dongle.

What about output impedance ?

Neglecting the Zout because of a few dbs drop in dynamics that are below the16th bit makes no sense to me.

Because it makes no sense for anyone skilled in headphone listening that knows about output impedance, linearity and damping.

A dramatic drop in output impedance it's waaaayyyyyyy moooooreeeeeeee audiblie than a decreased performance in the LSB of the audio (LSB-> least significant bits)

And all subjective reviews of skilled listeners using high end earphones acknowledge that undeniable fact.

Anyway from post #1 you are so heavily biased against the dongle that one can only wonder why is that.

If the tonality it's not right, then nothing else really matters.

Working on the rule of 1/8ths realistically headphones with an impedance above 32 Ohm should work just fine with the headphone output on the iPhone 6. Where the lower impedance of the adapter comes into its own would be headphones with an impedance of less than 32 Ohm.

By my reckoning if you have the iPhone 7 and want to use headphones with a 3.5mm connection then you are going to have to use the adapter, if you have earlier iDevices and don't have a technical need for the lower impedance then using the adapter isn't likely to be an improvement over the headphone jack. I would say that is the real reason why the adapter isn't to be universally recommended and isn't always going to sound better/worse than the headphone output of earlier devices.

A lot of the people I've seen comment on how much better the adapter sounds have been using the Shure SE846 which makes sense as they are BA Drivers rated at 9 Ohm, would you see the same benefit with something like the 64 Ohm Monk for example.

The lowest impedance of the headphones I tried with the adapter was 32 Ohm and I genuinely couldn't hear any real difference.

When you think about how much an iPhone costs in the first place I would have thought most owners would have sufficient loose change in their pockets to buy themselves an adapter to give a test and make their own minds up. At some point they will upgrade and need it anyway so it isn't wasted spend [unless Apple bring back the headphone port].

Duncan · Sep 24, 2016 at 2:24 AM

west0ne said:
When you think about how much an iPhone costs in the first place I would have thought most owners would have sufficient loose change in their pockets to buy themselves an adapter to give a test and make their own minds up. At some point they will upgrade and need it anyway so it isn't wasted spend [unless Apple bring back the headphone port].

Which is exactly what I have done, for the peanuts that it costs, even if it was a laughable joke, it was the same as a couple of Starbucks...

That being said, I'm really annoyed that I like it - going against my 'revelation' post in this thread, I will say that it sounds less harsh than the headphone out of the ipad pro, I am listening to the Onkyo E700M (32 ohm), and - I cannot fault it - the combination sounds more balanced than when using the B&O DAC that I use with the LG G5... Some may find the midrange a little recessed, but - that is the Apple house sound imo - and not necessarily a bad thing...

Listening to Tidal right now on my ipad, couldn't really be happier... especially considering to get the best out of the B&O with these earphones I have to plug in an extension cable, so ironically - this dongle is more discrete than what I'm currently using...

Damn, I hate Apple.

CoryGillmore · Sep 24, 2016 at 1:23 PM

Has anyone had a chance to test an iPhone 7/7+ with an Onkyo HA200? Or any external DAC/amp?

u2u2 · Sep 24, 2016 at 7:46 PM

Moved up to an iPhone 7 from a 6S to gain some storage space. Now at 256GB so it holds my entire music collection. I have tried the phone with a Sony PHA-2 and PHA-3 amp with the expected results. Sony cripples these amps as you can not use the camera kit - PC input and have to go with the Apple USB input and lower data rate support so you are better off feeding them with a Sony transport. The Chord Mojo works flawlessly with the iPhone 7 and camera connection kit. I also tried a Woo WDS-1 DAC to a WA22 with the camera connection kit and it performed well. Both of the available camera connection kits do the job but the newer USB 3 version also allows you to charge the phone while listening - a nice feature. Currently running KaiserTone with files from 256 iTunes through to 192/24 from various sources. The phone has power to spare and no activity done on the phone adversely affected music playback. Been using the Apple dongle to feed my car system and for portable use with SE846 IEMs. Apple has done a fair job and with the right accessories the 7 is a versatile phone. Can't offer comment on Onkyo issue.

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