[E8ArmyDiver]

Can anyone tell me if the 6EU7 Tube will work?

 

[SHFT]

Would this new Vali 2 pair nice with a Hifiman HE-300? The cans sound already warm would the Vali be 'too much'?
It would be my first tube amp.

 

[tomb]

Can someone tell me what keywords to search for to find relatively inexpensive tubes to play with?

 
The key is those two words above.  You want to keep things in context regarding the cost of this amp and rolling tubes.

 
 
A good place to start is Duncan's Tube Data Sheet Locator: http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/.
 
Take a look back at the first post in this thread, or refer to Schiit's data.  The tubes that were mentioned are the following:

1. 6BZ7
2. ECC88
3. 6922
4. 6DJ8
5. 2492

 
If you click on "Tube data" under the "Menu" on the link above, you'll get a Query input box.  When you get the "Search results," click on the link under "Designator."  You get the following when you input those numbers above:
 

1. 6BZ7 - Nothing but "Different filament voltage"  (DO NOT USE)
2. ECC88 - 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358 (Close or identical), 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
3. 6922 - 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Close or identical), 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358, ECC88 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
4. 6DJ8 - ECC88 (Close or identical), 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
5. 2492 - This is actually CV2492 and will not work in the search criteria unless you use the "CV." 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Close or identical), 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358, ECC88 (Different rating or performance)

 
Some of this is circular, of course.  You can click on all of those and get the same answers for the others.  TDSL is really a clearinghouse for tube data sheets.  Still, it gives you a pretty good list.  Take one of those numbers and try "6DJ8 tube" for example, as a search string on ebay and see what you get.  I usually append "tube" to the number to keep from getting some weird stuff back.  Some tube listings will be terribly expensive, others will not.  Pretty soon, you should be able to tell what's available and the going rate.  Also search on vacuumtubes.net, vacuumtubesinc.com, thetubecenter.com, and tubedepot.com.  These guys are excellently priced tube dealers and you can get a great idea of the going rate for a particular tube type and brand.  Tube Depot may be a bit more esoteric than the others, but they generally follow the going rate.
 
Finally, if you want some history of the tubes and their variants, it's hard to beat Brent Jesse Recording & Supply, Inc: audiotubes.com.  Scroll down to his yellow table (with red font) and select, "6DJ8/6922/7308."  Note that 7308 is a new number not included in the list above.  Anyway, you'll get several pages describing each tube in detail, how it sounds, what are the best brands, etc., etc.  He even includes some explanation of the counterfeit Amperex and Bugle Boy tubes and how to tell the difference: 
Quote from Brent Jesse Recording:

 

6DJ8:

This is the standard incarnation of this tube. It was made both in the USA and in Western Europe. GE and Sylvania both made USA versions, and are fairly good quality. The GE tubes have an RF shield sprayed on inside the glass, making the inside look dark. This is NOT an indication of a burned out or used tube. RCA tubes were often made by either Mullard or Amperex in Britain or Holland. The most popular NOS vintage tubes are those made by Telefunken, Amperex, Siemens or Mullard, and are usually also labelled ECC88. See the next paragraph for this description.  

ECC88:

This is the European designation for the 6DJ8 type tube. It is the same tube as a 6DJ8 and often the tube has both type numbers on it. The popular vintage tubes here are those by Telefunken, Amperex, or Mullard. The Telefunken are said to sound the best, and are the most difficult to find of all of these brands. All Telefunken tubes have a tiny diamond shape molded into the glass on the bottom, and have a very chalky ink on the surface which often is partially wiped off. Beware! These tubes are being reproduced in China, and look like the real thing, complete with diamond mark. The tipoff is the label: the fake labels will not wipe off. The Amperex can be found with a white label and the treble clef logo (rare), the Bugle Boy cartoon tube logo, Amperex in white ink, and the orange world logo. The orange world logo is the newest, and can be found in both standard "L" bracket top getter, and the rarer (and said to sound better) "A" frame top getter. The A-frame looks like a little metal "A" holding up the getter element on the top of the tube internal structure. I have also seen the A frame getter on some Mullard and Genalex (G.E.C.) tubes. The Bugle Boy is the most popular, almost to being a "designer" label, which has driven the price up and supplies down. See note below about Bugle Boy 6DJ8 tubes. I believe any of the Amperex / Philips Holland 1960s and 1970s 6DJ8 tubes are excellent, no matter which one you use. The tubes made with the plain white label (Amperex, DuMont, Hewlett-Packard, Beckman and others but all labelled "Holland") were made in the same factory as the Bugle Boy tubes and sound the same, but are often bargain priced due to low demand. Beware! The Bugle Boy tubes are being reproduced today! The box of the new tubes is even an identical green-and-yellow like the original, but it says "Bugle Boy" on it, and some even show the cartoon tube on the box. Original Amperex tubes NEVER had the words "Bugle Boy", or the cartoon tube, on the box. The Bugle Boy moniker is a slang name that audiophiles coined for the the little cartoon tube on the tube's label. The new tubes have fooled even some seasoned audiophiles! These are junky Chinese made tubes with the old label. The company vending them says they have the original burn-in racks from the old Holland factory. Big deal!! The old burn-in racks are not going to help a crappy tube. Stick with the vintage tubes while you still can!
Mullard 6DJ8 tubes are excellent as well, but are more difficult to find. They often made 6DJ8 tubes for other labels, like RCA, Zenith, and other USA brands. They have several seams molded into the top of the tube.
 
 

6922:

This is one of two premium versions of the 6DJ8 tube. First of all, it is the same tube as the 6DJ8, and will work wherever a 6DJ8 is needed. It has premium features such as low noise, low microphonics, and usually a longer lifespan. Sylvania made a version that is JAN military spec without gold pins. Amperex made all of theirs with gold plated pins and most have the PQ shield logo, standing for Premium Quality. See note below about Amperex 6922 and Bugle Boy tubes. Some of the later gold pin Amperex have the orange world logo. I have seen both orange and white PQ logos. Some of the early versions also have a number etched into the glass, like the 7308 tubes. These were also made for other manufacturers, and will have that makers name labelled in white, but these are the same gold pin tubes. Amperex opened a factory in New York to make these for the US military (since the government contract specified only USA constructed products) and cranked these and 7308 tubes out. A "made in U.S.A." Amperex tube is not a fake! In fact, these tubes are really excellent. A few were made in Holland for non-military industrial use, but these are rare. Also rare are the "pinched waist" versions of this tube. This is actually a molding flaw which made the glass bottom slightly fatter around the outside than the rest of the tube, and the center of the tube actually dips inward and touches the metal elements inside. Clients report these are incredible sounding tubes, and the upward spiral of prices for the rare pinch waist types seem to bear this out. Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E88CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex is not available. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of the very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes. RCA 6922 tubes were made by Siemens in Germany, and also have gold pins. These are great tubes, but are not as plentiful. Since the military and some large industries (Tektronix) bought the Amperex made tubes in huge batches, that is what is on the surplus market today.
 

E88CC and E88CC/01:

This is the European equivalent to the 6922, and is a quality step up from the standard 6DJ8 or 7DJ8. Telefunken made a fantastic version of this tube, complete with gold pins. Other vintage brands are available, but Telefunken, Philips, Siemens and Mullard are all I have ever seen in several years of tube hunting. Virtually all European brands have gold pins. Most are factory screened for tight internal matching and low noise. The E88CC/01 type (I have only seen these in Mullard brand) has even more factory testing. It is rather like a Cca type tube, with essentially military specs. It's the same as the CV2493, some have both types on the label. The /01 type is rare and worth seeking out if you like the warm British sound. There are some types out there, like "Golden Dragon" just to name one, but these are recent manufacture Chinese tubes, and can't hold a candle to the quality of the Telefunken or even any of the vintage 6922 types. There are also some nice USA made military and industrial types available with either gold or standard pins, and even these sound better than the current production tubes, and are usually priced the same or less.  

CV2493:

A rare military version of the E88CC/01. Some have both types on the label, some only the CV2493. This can be considered the British or Dutch version of the German Cca. Very low noise, carefully matched triodes, and these are batch tested to meet military specs. Usually only available in the Mullard brand, I have seen some with the Amperex Heerlen, Holland factory codes on them, even though they have the Mullard label. Scarce in the USA, and not found in the later Yugoslavian versions like the more common CV2492. It is possible only the UK and Holland made these tubes and were discontinued by the mid 1970s. Probably one of the best choices for tube microphones and mic preamps, or any other high gain, low noise use.  

CV2492:

This is a European military (usually British) version of the 6922 / E88CC type vacuum tube. Unlike the US military version, these tubes were never made in the USA. Most of the older examples were made in either the Mullard Mitcham, UK factory, or the Philips/Amperex Heerlen, Holland factory. These are fine tubes that have passed various demanding military specification tests regarding ruggedness, heat and shock resistence, and heater life. Like their civilian/industrial counterparts, they have the four molded seams on the top, heavily plated gold pins, a halo top getter with a splatter shield below it (with slight raised indentations at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions on the shield), and the standard Mullard/Philips factory date codes printed near the bottom of the glass side. Care must be taken, however, when buying these tubes if they are merely identified as "CV2492" tubes. These tubes were made well into the 1980s, and later examples are not as valuable or as desirable as the earlier varieties. Later versions were made in the former Yugoslavia and then in Russia. The Yugoslavia versions can be spotted by their lack of gold pins, and the halo getter mounted low, almost touching the splatter shield. The Russian versions are even easier to spot, as they have a fatter glass bottle, a top mounted cup shaped getter, no top mold seams, and sharp pointed pins which may or may not be gold plated. These are not bad tubes, but should only be worth one half to one fourth of what the UK or Holland made tubes are retailing for. Give the CV2492 a try, the older versions are sweet sounding and long-lived, and are a step up from the garden-variety 6922 / E88CC, and prices are generally a little lower.  

E188CC:

A bit rarer than the E88CC, the E188CC is usually found labelled as such by Siemens or Telefunken. Amperex and other makers (Sylvania for example) used the industrial 7308 marking, Amperex Holland and France used the E188CC label. It is basically the European equivalent to the 7308. The E188CC has gold pins, and is near the top of the 6DJ8 food chain. The Siemens version from the 1960s is quite rare, and is rated by many audiophiles as a jewel on par with the best Cca tubes, or the cryo-treated 7308s. It has low noise to the vanishing point, and a wonderful, airy top end and soundstage. This early version Siemens has a small halo top getter, and is labelled E188CC in white ink. Versions made in the Philips Holland plant are similar, and have the SQ logo. If you find some, grab 'em while you still can! Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E188CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex label is not available. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes. Finally, watch for Siemens or Telefunken German made E188CC/7308 tubes, most having the E188CC label in white, with the Telefunken having the distinctive diamond shape in the bottom glass. Siemens are usually more plentiful, and a huge savings over their Cca tubes.  

7308:

This is probably the ultra 6DJ8 type tube commonly available. It has all of the features of the 6922, but the triode sections are also matched to each other, and the tubes all fit within very tight specifications. Therefore, any 7308 should match any other 7308 within the same brand. The Amperex versions were again made in New York, complete with gold pins, and often have a number etched into the side of the glass. Amperex made these for industry as well as the military. The Amperex versions have the PQ label, the military type usually is labeled "USN-CEP", but I have seen versions made for Stromberg-Carlson and Hewlett-Packard, with white ink labels. These all had the numbers etched into the glass, and all are the same tube. The USA made military white label types have been rated "Best of All", over other 7308, 6922 and even Cca tubes, in several well-documented 6922/7308/Cca listening tests. Therefore this particular type is becoming scarce and prices are rising. There were a few of these made in Holland, but most were made in the USA, therefore the Holland tubes are RARE and usually command a higher price. The Holland PQ versions have the PQ with stars on either side of the letters, and the words "Premium Quality", where the USA types have the PQ inside of a shield logo. Again, there are some nice vintage USA made standard pin military and industrial types available from Raytheon and Sylvania, just to name a few, and these are quite good at a price currently far below the European vintage labels. Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E188CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex label is not available. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of the very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes. Finally, watch for Siemens or Telefunken German made 7308 tubes, most having the E188CC label in white, with the Telefunken having the distinctive diamond shape in the bottom glass. Siemens are usually more plentiful, and a huge savings over their Cca tubes.  

E288CC:

This unusual tube is basically a 7308 / E188CC in a slightly taller bottle. The filament current draw is also slightly higher but for most applications it is plug and play compatible with the 6922, 7308, Cca, or even the 6DJ8. Physical space is a consideration, since the tube is about one-half inch taller than the rest of the tubes on this page. It features gold pins, factory screened triodes for low noise, 10,000 heater life, and all the other great features that make the 7308 and the Cca such high-demand tubes. Since it is a relative unknown, the prices are about the same as good 6922 tubes, and far below that of most 7308 or Cca types! I have only seen this tube in Valvo, Telefunken, or Siemens brands. Worth giving a try if you want the best but cannot afford the soaring costs of NOS 7308 or Cca tubes.  

Cca:

Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!  

6H23:

This is a Russian made equivalent to the 6922 or E88CC, but will work in place of any 7308 or 6DJ8 type as well. Ordinarily the Russian tubes are just not of a high enough quality to go head-to-head with NOS German, Dutch, or UK tubes. These are a possible exception. The so-called "rocket logo" type from the 1970s and early 1980s seems to hold it's own against NOS tubes costing 3-4 times as much. These NOS Russian rockets have been critically acclaimed in several online discussion boards for their detail and smoothness. At current prices, these are about one-third to one-fourth the cost of NOS Western Europe types, and so their value is enhanced even more.  

7DJ8 / PCC88:

This is an unusual tube that must have had a limited range of specific uses. It is virtually identical to the 6DJ8 except for the heater rating, which is 7 volts. I have seen Siemens, Valvo, Telefunken, Philips, Ultron and Matsu****a (Japan) brands of this tube. It probably makes a good sub for the 6DJ8 and may last longer due to the higher voltage heater. Some are labelled with only the "PCC88" and others have both types listed on the label. All seem to be good quality. The Japanese factory was set up by Mullard, and these tubes even flash orange at the bottom of the filaments when first energized, like most European triodes do. Most of the European types were made at the Munich Siemens factory, the Hamburg Valvo factory, the Heerlen Holland Amperex Factory, or the Blackburn, UK Mullard factory. These sound just like the best 6DJ8 tubes, the German tubes being mostly neutral, and the Dutch and British tubes having a touch of midrange warmth. Watch for the very rare D-getter types and even rarer pinch waist types, often at bargain prices (compared to 6922 types in these categories) when you can find them. You may want to try a 7DJ8 for the longer heater life in a 6.3 volt circuit, and the lower price! OK, SO TELL ME HOW THEY SOUND!!
A tough question if there ever was one! The best advice is to get a few types and hear for yourself the good sounds you have been missing. All of these vintage tubes are excellent, much better than the Russian or Chinese yuck that is being made today. When replacing any stock Russian, Chinese, or East Europe tube with any of these vintage NOS types, you will notice immediately that the midrange glare is gone. Gone too is that honky, boxy quality, and the tiring upper midrange screech that current production tubes are famous for. Here are some VERY GENERAL observations about some of these vintage tubes:
TELEFUNKEN, SIEMENS, VALVO, LORENZ, and other German made NOS: These tubes are usually characterized by an impressive open "air" at the top end. The soundstage is large, even in mono applications these tubes have a great 3-D image. The midrange is ruler flat, and the bass is tight and accurate. These tubes have a fine sense of dynamics, and most are impressively quiet. These are not "warm" tubes, and to some ears their lack of midrange warmth may be heard as bright. I tend to think of them as accurate, and their clean, focused sonic image is astonishing. My personal favorites. The top types are as would be expected: the 7308/E188CC, the Cca, and the 6922/E88CC. The Cca is a very special 6922 made for the German government for telecommunications. They are excellent tubes, as good as any 7308. By the way, the 1970s versions of these brands are excellent as well, in spite of some trashing on "Some Guy's Tube Lore" and other web pages. Don't let anyone tell you what tubes you should like and what you should not like!
AMPEREX, PHILIPS, MAZDA and other Holland/France/Belgium made NOS: These tubes are a great balance of a clean, airy top end, nice midrange warmth, and accurate bass. They are very pleasant, clean, and musical to listen to in hi-fi applications. The white label Amperex PQ type or USN-CEP (same tube, the USN was made for the military) made in the USA are considered one of the best 7308 or 6922 types of all ever made. The D-getter and pinch waist rare types are also highly regarded, and are very quiet as well. The orange label types run a close second. Look for the white label USA and Heerlen Holland factory made for other brands. They are the same tube and usually less expensive than those with the Amperex or Philips label! Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E88CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex is not available, since they sound and look the same. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of the very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes.
MULLARD, GENALEX, BRIMAR, and other British made NOS: Like a warm British jacket of the finest tweed, these glorious tubes have an attractive sweet warmth in their midrange and lower regions. The top end is silky and pleasant, without being rolled-off. The best of these tubes retain a fine sense of "air" at the top, and the upper midrange is smooth and liquid. These tubes reproduce the human voice, especially female voices, with haunting realism. The 1970s Mullard made have an attractive sparkle at the top with the rich bass, and these tubes are usually priced less than the older types.
RCA, RAYTHEON, GE, SYLVANIA, and other USA made NOS: This group is very diverse. The older RCA, GE, and some other brands of 6922, 7308, and 6DJ8 were often made by Siemens, Mullard, or Amperex, and usually are a bargain. The USA made 1960s vintage 6922 and 7308 are nearly always made for the military, although there were some early industrial versions made by Westinghouse and other brands. They are fairly good and usually priced very low. Their sonics are reasonably well balanced. The 6DJ8 tubes made in the USA, and the 6922 or 7308 USA tubes made AFTER 1975 are generally best used in test equipment that calls for them, as they are not particularly attractive audio tubes. The earlier 1960s versions are somewhat better, including the greyglass GE. Their prices are usually very low, putting them on par with the Russian or Chinese types. You may want to try them if on a strict budget, for they will surely outlast several sets of current production tubes, and probably still sound better than the Russian-Chinese trash. Overall, the USA made tubes are a nice surprise with their low prices as compared to the European types.
 

A Note About Amperex 6922 and Bugle Boy Tubes:

Because the trade names of "Amperex" and "Bugle Boy" have been sold to a USA electronics firm, there is much confusion in the tube world about Bugle Boy tubes. I will try to clear up the confusion as briefly as possible. This company bought the rights to the name Amperex, the name Bugle Boy, and the rights to the cartoon tube logo. This new owner is NOT Dutch Philips or North American Philips, who originally owned Amperex and made the 1950s to 1970s vintage tubes that audiophiles want. When I mention "Amperex Holland" or "Amperex USA", I refer to the original Dutch and North Amperican Philips owned companies (now defunct) that made the vintage tubes, now in demand by audiophiles, up until the late 1970s. There are 6922 tubes being sold today under the name Amperex Bugle Boy, and they even come in a green and yellow box like the original Amperex tubes. THESE ARE NOT AMPEREX TUBES AT ALL, AND THEY ARE NOT NOS. They are either relabeled new Chinese or late production JAN Sylvania tubes. These fakes contain several errors: 1. Genuine NOS Amperex Holland or Amperex USA NEVER used the words "Bugle Boy" on their tubes or boxes.
2. Genuine NOS Amperex tubes NEVER had the cartoon Bugle Boy printed on the tube box.
3. Philips/Amperex Holland or North American Philips/Amperex USA NEVER made a 6922 (E88CC) tube with the Bugle Boy cartoon on the box. They also NEVER made a 7308 or E188CC with the Bugle Boy on the box OR glass. In this family of tubes, only the 6DJ8 had the cartoon tube on the glass, but again, never on the box.
4. Again, there IS NO SUCH THING as a genuine NOS Amperex "Bugle Boy" 6922 or 7308 tube. This bears repeating!
5. We stock the real NOS 1960s and 1970s Amperex (Holland and USA made) 6922 and 7308 tubes. They either used the white label or the orange (or later green) globe logo label, with either the PQ (premium quality) logo, or were military USN/CEP or JAN labeled. We also stock the real NOS Holland 6DJ8 Bugle Boy tubes from the 1960s. Amperex did not make these in the USA. These DO have the cartoon boy on the label, but NEVER had the words "Bugle Boy" printed on the box or the tube glass.
6. Nearly all of the NOS 1960s and 1970s real Amperex tubes have the factory date codes on the side of the glass. The fakes do not.
7. Some knowledgeable sources have reported seeing recently some Amperex HOLLAND made 6922 gold pin tubes with the Bugle Boy cartoon on the glass. They were only Holland made and only 6922 type. It appears there were so few made in the early 1960s that it is unlikely any will turn up anywhere outside of The Netherlands or neighboring countries in Europe. Determining if they are real by the date code and other construction factors requires some skill. Since they are so scarce, it is advisable to treat any "Bugle Boy" 6922 tube as a fake.

 
There's also some good info at SND Tube Sales - http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6dj8.html.  That's the link for the 6DJ8 tube.  Again, not as much as Brent Jesse's info, but a lot of descriptions of brands, differences between the variants, etc.
 
Hope that helps.  There's actually even more info out there if you really look.

 

 

[Capt369]

   
The key is those two words above.  You want to keep things in context regarding the cost of this amp and rolling tubes.

 
 
A good place to start is Duncan's Tube Data Sheet Locator: http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/.
 
Take a look back at the first post in this thread, or refer to Schiit's data.  The tubes that were mentioned are the following:

1. 6BZ7
2. ECC88
3. 6922
4. 6DJ8
5. 2492

 
If you click on "Tube data" under the "Menu" on the link above, you'll get a Query input box.  When you get the "Search results," click on the link under "Designator."  You get the following when you input those numbers above:
 

1. 6BZ7 - Nothing but "Different filament voltage"  (DO NOT USE)
2. ECC88 - 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358 (Close or identical), 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
3. 6922 - 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Close or identical), 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358, ECC88 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
4. 6DJ8 - ECC88 (Close or identical), 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2492, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Different rating or performance) - You can try all of these.
5. 2492 - This is actually CV2492 and will not work in the search criteria unless you use the "CV." 6922, 6922WA, CCA, CV10320, CV2493, CV8065, E88CC, E88CC01, ECC868 (Close or identical), 6DJ8, 6N23P*, CV5358, ECC88 (Different rating or performance)

 
Some of this is circular, of course.  You can click on all of those and get the same answers for the others.  TDSL is really a clearinghouse for tube data sheets.  Still, it gives you a pretty good list.  Take one of those numbers and try "6DJ8 tube" for example, as a search string on ebay and see what you get.  I usually append "tube" to the number to keep from getting some weird stuff back.  Some tube listings will be terribly expensive, others will not.  Pretty soon, you should be able to tell what's available and the going rate.  Also search on vacuumtubes.net, vacuumtubesinc.com, thetubecenter.com, and tubedepot.com.  These guys are excellently priced tube dealers and you can get a great idea of the going rate for a particular tube type and brand.  Tube Depot may be a bit more esoteric than the others, but they generally follow the going rate.
 
Finally, if you want some history of the tubes and their variants, it's hard to beat Brent Jesse Recording & Supply, Inc: audiotubes.com.  Scroll down to his yellow table (with red font) and select, "6DJ8/6922/7308."  Note that 7308 is a new number not included in the list above.  Anyway, you'll get several pages describing each tube in detail, how it sounds, what are the best brands, etc., etc.  He even includes some explanation of the counterfeit Amperex and Bugle Boy tubes and how to tell the difference: 
 
There's also some good info at SND Tube Sales - http://www.vacuumtubes.com/6dj8.html.  That's the link for the 6DJ8 tube.  Again, not as much as Brent Jesse's info, but a lot of descriptions of brands, differences between the variants, etc.
 
Hope that helps.  There's actually even more info out there if you really look.

 

WOW, best post on this website. Thanks tomb

 

[a44100Hz]

Alright, eBay'd some inexpensive 6CG7, ECC88 and CV2454 to play with. I'm sure they'll arrive sometime in 2016

 

[lvince95]

  Alright, eBay'd some inexpensive 6CG7, ECC88 and CV2454 to play with. I'm sure they'll arrive sometime in 2016

You might wanna look at trusted retailers (like Kevin from upscale audio for example) or other tube stores. A lot of the tubes sold on Ebay are usually those that don't pass the standards set by the stores and get passed onto Ebay sellers. If you still wanna buy from Ebay, then buy from the highly rated sellers to minimize your chances of getting lesser quality tubes.

 

[a44100Hz]

You might wanna look at trusted retailers (like Kevin from upscale audio for example) or other tube stores. A lot of the tubes sold on Ebay are usually those that don't pass the standards set by the stores and get passed onto Ebay sellers. If you still wanna buy from Ebay, then buy from the highly rated sellers to minimize your chances of getting lesser quality tubes.

Thanks for the info. The tubes I purchased are all <$15 so I'm buying them for the learning experience more than anything else. I'll branch out later once I've toyed with rolling and read more about it.

 

[jaywillin]

i've bought a ton of tubes from Mercedesman
http://stores.ebay.com/TUBEHUNTER?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

 

[painted klown]

A LOT of really good info being shared ITT.
Thank you to ALL who are chiming in with advice and information. It really is appreciated, and helps us new tube users out tremendously.

 
I have been enjoying my Vali 2 a lot this weekend. I have been on a classical music kick all weekend and am amazed at the this little amps ability to draw me into the music, and connect me on an emotional level.
 
I have discovered that listening to something great gives me a a pattern of getting sucked in, then stopping just to revel in the music, reaching to turn it up, getting even more sucked in, turning up some more, etc. I have noticed this pattern for years with myself, with all types of music and gear. "Feeling" the music is what it's all about for me, and this amp allows me to do just that. The Vali 2 and HD-650 has me in this pattern all the time. It's a good sign to me.

 

[Astral Abyss]

  It depends on how you define inexpensive. For above $50ish per tube go with what abyss mentioned, amperex tubes are well regarded.
 
For <$50 per tube, look at the current production ones like Electro-Harmonix 6922, JJ 6922, Genalex Gold Lion 6922
 
Other options, which may not be current production, include Tesla 6922, Matsu-shi-ta PCC88/7DJ8 (7DJ8 should work in 6922 systems as well).

 
Just to be clear, the tube searches I mentioned, when done on ebay, will turn up tons of tubes in different conditions, singles/doubles, NOS/used, etc.  You can spend less than $50, or less than $25 of some of them, if you look around and make a few bids.  It's not difficult at all.  The tube may not be NOS, but it doesn't really matter.  All that should really matter is that the output levels are fairly well matched and that the outputs are well above the minimums.  I don't recommend ever buying a tube that doesn't list the measured output levels and the minimum good number ratings for that tester, and preferably the the tester type used.
 
Just remember to stick to your maximum price you're willing to pay when bidding.  Alternatively, you can go for the buy it now sellers.
 
Here's some listings to give you an idea what I'm talking about:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ECC88-HOLLAND-6DJ8-TIGHT-MATCH-PAIR-A-FRAME-DIMPLE-GETR-TEST-NOS-/231789158032?hash=item35f7b5de90:g:zN8AAOSwT5tWPVqS
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-Dimpled-Disc-Getter-VACUUM-TUBES-HOLLAND-5-906-/231704366048?hash=item35f2a80be0:g:T4sAAOSw4HVWCfKK
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Bugle-Boy-6DJ8-ECC-88-Holland-/272078422910?hash=item3f5923437e:g:66EAAOSw~otWcMgv
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Bugle-Boy-6DJ8-ECC88-tube-Holland-Test-NOS-/201480201372?hash=item2ee927e49c:g:0kAAAOSwAKxWZNGt
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sylvania-6DJ8-ECC88-Tube-Very-Strong-Balanced-Results-12-600-11-900-/181951724731?hash=item2a5d2afcbb:g:G74AAOSwqu9VTDHO
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-JHS-6922-E88CC-6DJ8-TRIPLE-MICA-TUBES-AMPLITREX-TESTED-1960s-3-MICA-/231722743645?hash=item35f3c0775d:g:4XUAAOSw5ZBWITAN
 
That took me around 10 minutes and there's 100's more at those prices.

 

[painted klown]

Astral Abyss,
 
Thanks for the help and tips for tube shopping. My biggest fear with e-bay is the possibility of getting fake/bootleg tubes. Do you find this to be an issue when shopping on there?
 
The reason I mention it is because I have seen some websites claim "Buy from us so you know you're getting the real deal" type stuff. I know fakes exist with every product, and the seller may not even know they have a fake, so it makes it very difficult to know, unless one is well versed in spotting knock offs.
 
I used to collect Criterion DVD & BD discs. Over the years, I became VERY good at spotting bootleg discs from just looking at them. When I sold off my collection, I was actually helping others (who ere building their collections) to learn what to look for, and how to spot fakes on the web.
 
In fact, I had one seller who initially became angry with me when I advised him that his copy of John Woo's "The Killer" was indeed a fake (I had contacted him about purchasing it to begin with, due to the price). I told him what to look for, he then went and researched it, got back to me, and apologized as he didn't even know he was selling a bootleg copy. Sometimes (but not always) there are sellers who "know" their product is legit, but in all actuality, they just don't know any better...
 
As I am not adept at spotting fake tubes, I worry about getting ripped off. Either intentionally, or simply because the seller doesn't know the difference any more than I do.

 

[jaywillin]

  Astral Abyss,
 
Thanks for the help and tips for tube shopping. My biggest fear with e-bay is the possibility of getting fake/bootleg tubes. Do you find this to be an issue when shopping on there?
 
The reason I mention it is because I have seen some websites claim "Buy from us so you know you're getting the real deal" type stuff. I know fakes exist with every product, and the seller may not even know they have a fake, so it makes it very difficult to know, unless one is well versed in spotting knock offs.
 
I used to collect Criterion DVD & BD discs. Over the years, I became VERY good at spotting bootleg discs from just looking at them. When I sold off my collection, I was actually helping others (who ere building their collections) to learn what to look for, and how to spot fakes on the web.
 
In fact, I had one seller who initially became angry with me when I advised him that his copy of John Woo's "The Killer" was indeed a fake (I had contacted him about purchasing it to begin with, due to the price). I told him what to look for, he then went and researched it, got back to me, and apologized as he didn't even know he was selling a bootleg copy. Sometimes (but not always) there are sellers who "know" their product is legit, but in all actuality, they just don't know any better...
 
As I am not adept at spotting fake tubes, I worry about getting ripped off. Either intentionally, or simply because the seller doesn't know the difference any more than I do.

i stick with sellers with good feedback really, and i'd be wary of a "price too good to be true"  they usually are you know
message with the sellers, ask questions, most are eager to share knowledge , give advice, as far as the vali 2 goes, being it uses the same tube as the lyr, check the lyr tube rolling thread, great info there, the guys are super there

 

[Astral Abyss]

  Astral Abyss,
 
Thanks for the help and tips for tube shopping. My biggest fear with e-bay is the possibility of getting fake/bootleg tubes. Do you find this to be an issue when shopping on there?
 
The reason I mention it is because I have seen some websites claim "Buy from us so you know you're getting the real deal" type stuff. I know fakes exist with every product, and the seller may not even know they have a fake, so it makes it very difficult to know, unless one is well versed in spotting knock offs.
 
I used to collect Criterion DVD & BD discs. Over the years, I became VERY good at spotting bootleg discs from just looking at them. When I sold off my collection, I was actually helping others (who ere building their collections) to learn what to look for, and how to spot fakes on the web.
 
In fact, I had one seller who initially became angry with me when I advised him that his copy of John Woo's "The Killer" was indeed a fake (I had contacted him about purchasing it to begin with, due to the price). I told him what to look for, he then went and researched it, got back to me, and apologized as he didn't even know he was selling a bootleg copy. Sometimes (but not always) there are sellers who "know" their product is legit, but in all actuality, they just don't know any better...
 
As I am not adept at spotting fake tubes, I worry about getting ripped off. Either intentionally, or simply because the seller doesn't know the difference any more than I do.

 
There are fakes out there, definitely.  Also plenty of people who don't know how to check tubes properly.  You can buy from the known vendors on ebay if you want to be safe about it.  Nothing wrong with that.  I linked to a couple. (tubemuseum and tubestore) Their prices are fair and you will know you're getting a legit tube, and they usually offer satisfation guarantees.  I'm always leery of anyone who won't take a tube back that you're not happy with.  Unless the price is low and I just feel like taking a chance.
 
Eventually, just like with your disc collection, you will be able to more easily spot fakes and questionable tubes.  Also, if you see an auction you're interested in, PM for advice on it.  We'll be glad to help.
 
I post on the Lyr tube rollers thread as well and there is some very good info to be had there.  Worth reading.  A lot of those guys are into the expensive tubes, but they have tons of great info and knowledge.  They've helped me greatly.

 

[Makiah S]

  I agree with what others have had to say - it will be hard to tell, your tastes and if you will like the tube sound from the Vali 2. However:
 

1. Vali 2 will have zero issues with the cans you have listed - no impedance mismatch problems. My Grado headphones are low impedance, and I really dug the sound: m9XX > Vali 2 > SR60i
2. I would not recommend the Vali 2 (or any tube amplifier) for use with the Fostex TH-X00. This is such a lush sounding headphone, by its nature, such that no additives are necessary or in my opinion helpful. This is quite different from an impedance mismatch issue, or a softening of the treble or bass - the Vali 2 does not do those things. But it is still a tube. The TH-X00 sounds great from a sharp, solid-state, low impedance source. Your Asgard 2 likely sounds fantastic with this headphone. I'm currently using it straight from my Grace Design m9XX into the TH-X00 cans.

Honestly, I kinda like the sound of the TH X00 with the Vali 2, though I have Alpha Pads which give the TH X00 a drier sound than staock pads 

 

[crossfire]

i wonder if anyone have any comparisons between the garage1217 amps vs the vali2?