What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter) | Page 26 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

deckeda · Feb 8, 2016 at 9:36 PM

rtaylor76 said:
I think this is what Mike is trying to say - it would be for MM only (or high output MCs) and still cost 4-5 times as much as the Mani. And thus therefore, is it worth building a limiting product for 4 to 5 times the price, just for tubes?

- no impedance matching (47k only)
- no high output (MM only and maybe those Denon DL-110s or DL-120s)
- no tube rolling (6DJ8/6922/7308 only)
- 4 to 5 times cost of Mani ($516 - $645 USD)

I think Mike and Jason would love for such a product to be 3 to 4 times the price, but the power supply/filtering and chassis I think is the most limiting. Clean power is a must for tube preamps (well...any tube amp), and that comes at a price.

Alrighty, I didn't understand that MM/hi output MC-only might already be a consideration at the company. At these still-low price points we're discussing I'd rather see MM done really well then MC done just OK, and as with tubes, I'm a believer that it costs more to do MC right than it does MM amplification.

GrouchoMarx1933 · Feb 8, 2016 at 9:49 PM

baldr said:
Below is a hardware description of what I am currently using as a USB streamer. (Now that I have a backup running.) But first, this is not an endorsement. There are many, many units/computers I have not tried. I have found this to be relatively inexpensive, reliable, easy to use, and good sounding. There are some DIY abilities required to complete the server. I am not available to provide any help or customer support whatsoever. This is intended to be a report of my experience in making a server only. Finally, this is subject to change as I fiddle with more server solutions (Which over my dead body Schiit will ever manufacture). I'm unlikely to try others for quite a while – my plate is full with my prior stated projects. I refer any further questions to u-toob or head-fi where answers are available. So here is the recipe:

Ingredients:
1. One used Mac Mini model MC238xxA or (slightly preferred) model MC239xxA (both are late 2009 NOT early 2009 models and $150-$250 on ebay)
2. Unless the unit is so configured, 8 gig RAM upgrade ($50 or so on ebay)
3. A SSD (sata 2) with a brand you trust and capacity you need. I use a 1 tera Samsung.
4. One of those USB to Sata power and signal cables (a very few bucks on Amazon)
5. For backup, a sata 2 hard drive and case for the drive. This is of course optional, but I still trust mechanical Hds more than SSDs.

So first, consult u-toob first and take the unit apart and install RAM (To speed up the machine.)
Visit the Apple Store to download, install, and upgrade to the latest El Capitan (Makes it even faster). (Make your install a fresh install) Download and install Super Duper (what I used – although it was optional, I sent them the $27) to clone the drive. Install the drive in your Mac Mini and put it back together. Finally, in you dislike I-tunes, pick a player you like – this link can be very helpful and there is much info right here on head-fi:

http://www.head-fi.org/a/mac-os-x-music-players-alternatives-to-itunes

As an added bonus, the multi-drive can be used to rip CDs to your collection.

A final note, I have tried at least three different Mac Minis, including much faster and newer models. This is THE model to use for the performance criteria I list in the first paragraph, PARTICULARLY the last one.

Enjoy your reliable, great sound. If you are a victim of Redmond, Wa OS audio, you may be especially pleased.

Hey Mike,

Quick question for you on this setup. Are you feeding the DAC via the optical out of the Mac Mini or via USB? If USB, are you using a Wyrd?

Thanks!

Baldr · Feb 9, 2016 at 4:34 AM

merrick said:
Hey Mike,

Quick question for you on this setup. Are you feeding the DAC via the optical out of the Mac Mini or via USB? If USB, are you using a Wyrd?

Thanks!

Both - if you use the optical, I would urge the use of one of those glass links, rather than the cheap, plastic, pipe.

GrouchoMarx1933 · Feb 9, 2016 at 11:56 AM

Thanks Mike! I'll look for a quality cable to go with it. I'm pretty sure I'll be doing the setup you listed for my home server. The price is right and the modifications aren't difficult.

jumper · Feb 9, 2016 at 9:24 PM

baldr said:
[COLOR=000000]Below is a hardware description of what I am currently using as a USB streamer. (Now that I have a backup running.) But first, this is not an endorsement. There are many, many units/computers I have not tried. I have found this to be relatively inexpensive, reliable, easy to use, and good sounding. There are some DIY abilities required to complete the server. I am not available to provide any help or customer support whatsoever. This is intended to be a report of my experience in making a server only. Finally, this is subject to change as I fiddle with more server solutions (Which over my dead body Schiit will ever manufacture). I'm unlikely to try others for quite a while – my plate is full with my prior stated projects. I refer any further questions to u-toob or head-fi where answers are available. So here is the recipe:[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]Ingredients:[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]1. One used Mac Mini model MC238xxA or (slightly preferred) model MC239xxA (both are late 2009 NOT early 2009 models and $150-$250 on ebay)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]2. Unless the unit is so configured, 8 gig RAM upgrade ($50 or so on ebay)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]3. A SSD (sata 2) with a brand you trust and capacity you need. I use a 1 tera Samsung.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]4. One of those USB to Sata power and signal cables (a very few bucks on Amazon)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]5. For backup, a sata 2 hard drive and case for the drive. This is of course optional, but I still trust mechanical Hds more than SSDs.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]So first, consult u-toob first and take the unit apart and install RAM (To speed up the machine.)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]Visit the Apple Store to download, install, and upgrade to the latest El Capitan (Makes it even faster). (Make your install a fresh install) Download and install Super Duper (what I used – although it was optional, I sent them the $27) to clone the drive. Install the drive in your Mac Mini and put it back together. Finally, in you dislike I-tunes, pick a player you like – this link can be very helpful and there is much info right here on head-fi:[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000][COLOR=386EFF]http://www.head-fi.org/a/mac-os-x-music-players-alternatives-to-itunes[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]As an added bonus, the multi-drive can be used to rip CDs to your collection.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]A final note, I have tried at least three different Mac Minis, including much faster and newer models. This is THE model to use for the performance criteria I list in the first paragraph, PARTICULARLY the last one.[/COLOR]

Enjoy your reliable, great sound. If you are a victim of Redmond, Wa OS audio, you may be especially pleased.

I read this whole thread and saw Mike comment a couple times that these 2009 minis sound better than newer Macs. The only reference to somewhat of a reason was that the 2009 was the lowest powered to still get the job done. I would love to hear more as to why the 2009 sounds better as a streamer than newer minis/Macs.

tjw321 · Feb 10, 2016 at 2:59 AM

jumper said:
I read this whole thread and saw Mike comment a couple times that these 2009 minis sound better than newer Macs. The only reference to somewhat of a reason was that the 2009 was the lowest powered to still get the job done. I would love to hear more as to why the 2009 sounds better as a streamer than newer minis/Macs.

Wasn't that the last model with an external power supply? Maybe that helps, too.

rmoody · Feb 10, 2016 at 8:25 AM

I'd like thoughts comparing the MacMini and an Intel NUC. We have 3 of these little giants in our house. The newest version will support 32GB DDR4 RAM with CPUs from Celeron to i7. Power supply is external as well. Throw some Linux on that, or hackintosh it if you feel led. Could be a good alternative to the MacMini. Biggest drawback is no optical out that I can see. Which is lame considering everything else they put in these things, wireless, bluetooth, NFC, IR receiver, etc.

artur9 · Feb 10, 2016 at 9:07 AM

rmoody said:
I'd like thoughts comparing the MacMini and an Intel NUC. .

I just got a new Intel NUC, the Asrock Beebox. Nice little machine. No optical so I'd use either the USB or HDMI outs. For this one I'm using HDMI.

In terms of audio, I much prefer the control Linux gives over the MacOS. I find it easier to achieve bit-perfectness by installing an appropriate Linux distribution (Volumio, Rune, Daphile, Openelec, geexbox) rather than to fuss with the Mac's background processes etc. But then again I am not also using these on the desktop (which I do at work but will not at home).

I run the USB into a Wyrd then a W4S uLink into either my Uberfrost or my pre-pro. They both sound fantastic to me.

NightFlight · Feb 10, 2016 at 11:30 AM

My experience with TosLink plastic vs Glass has been the opposite. High priced glass in my case resulted in sync failure at rates higher than 96khz and cheap plastic $5/6ft cables always seems to get the job done. I suspect a cheap materials mismatch with glass to be the issue. Cheap Chinese plastic diodes perhaps 'just work' with plastic TosLink runs. Intuition would say glass is better but my actual experience has me scratching my head.

madwolfa · Feb 10, 2016 at 11:40 AM

I'm using an inexpensive optical cable from Blue Jeans Cable made of high quality Mitsubishi Eska POF without any issues even at 15 ft (4.5m) length.

Jones Bob · Feb 10, 2016 at 1:06 PM

I wish AT&T ST optical would have become more commonplace as a SPDIF standard.

bgentry · Feb 10, 2016 at 8:32 PM

artur9 said:
In terms of audio, I much prefer the control Linux gives over the MacOS. I find it easier to achieve bit-perfectness by installing an appropriate Linux distribution (Volumio, Rune, Daphile, Openelec, geexbox) rather than to fuss with the Mac's background processes etc.

"Bit perfectness". There's no need to mess with background processes. Get the right player and it will deliver the bits in the song to the DAC. 16 bit files will be zero padded to be sent to 24 bit DACs of course. I don't get all of this focus on CPU, processes, etc.

There's also no need to really do anything with the Mac's sound configuration. Just configure your player and go. OS X will happily pass through what the player sends out.

Brian.

artur9 · Feb 10, 2016 at 9:47 PM

bgentry said:
There's no need to mess with background processes.

I just read a lot about people making these changes. Are you saying that it is audiophile computer Feng Shui?

bgentry · Feb 12, 2016 at 10:44 AM

^ Background processes shouldn't matter. If the bits get to the DAC in time to play them, and there aren't audio dropouts, nasty noises, etc, then the DAC and computer should be doing their jobs together to play music correctly. I haven't had anyone demonstrate to me a way to hear or measure a difference from system load, other than what I said above: Obvious dropouts or other audio problems.

I also haven't read anything that describes a way to hear or measure these differences. Because of lack of evidence and what I know about computers and audio, I'm more than a little skeptical of these claims.

Brian.

madwolfa · Feb 12, 2016 at 10:49 AM

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

If this stays green - you should be fine even with realtime audio, which is much more sensitive and tasking than simple playback with large buffers and other countermeasures.

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