closed headphones will have smaller sound stage compared to an open model like the he400. the he400 also has some of the best planar bass out there. only beaten by the lcd-x imo & ive tried all the planars out there besides modded variants & the new el8. a bit of an unfair comparison for those two aspects.

however the pm3s have great sound stage for a closed headphone and very solid bass quality for a 'natural' tuned pair of headphones. for an on-the-go option to complement your he-400 or for a more genre versatile pair of headphones, they perform very well

matttcg said:

   
Sound stage on the he-400 is a good bit wider and deeper. The bass on the he-400 is a least a league or two better  than the pm-3 bass...not close TBH. But the mids and treble are considerably better on the pm-3. ymmv

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Thanks for your response. Do you still have the he-400? Is your comparison direct or from memory?  I'm listening to the he-400 now and while I like the bass body, the sound isn't the most natural overall. I was honestly hoping to replace the he-400 with the PM-3 just because of the overall versatility of having the planar sound in something that I'd actually wear somewhere other than a listening station. Would you say the detail retrieval and instrument separation of the PM-3 is comparable? 
 
If someone else that is saying the bass is improving, or who has tested the PM3 with bass boost would like to add anything I'd appreciate it. I'm about 8th in line for one of the PM-3 loaners so I'm craving info because I'm going to have a long wait   I've read this whole thread and most of the PM3/HA-2 intro thread, and the EL-8/PM3 comparison thread as well.

money4me247 said:

closed headphones will have smaller sound stage compared to an open model like the he400. the he400 also has some of the best planar bass out there. only beaten by the lcd-x imo & ive tried all the planars out there besides modded variants & the new el8. a bit of an unfair comparison for those two aspects.

however the pm3s have great sound stage for a closed headphone and very solid bass quality for a 'natural' tuned pair of headphones. for an on-the-go option to complement your he-400 or for a more genre versatile pair of headphones, they perform very well

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I just missed your post when posting just now. Thanks for answering. Yeah, I know about closed vs. open in general. My UE6000 seem to have nearly the soundstage width as my he-400 though. Honestly compared to the UE6000 and my Grado 125i MCA woodies, the bass and detail are the big deal for me with the he-400, but that kind of bass isn't really called for all the time.
 
So now I either wait for the loaners, or get on the hype train early I guess.

I just purchased the p7 to compare to the pm-3. I'm not going to say exactly how I feel, but I am really enjoying the p7.

I see a lot of mention of the dt1350. It's possibly my favorite portable... maybe even favorite closed can. For those who have both the dt1350 and the pm-3, can you comment on any comparisons?

My PM-3 is now connected to my Ragnarok amp - oh dear that drums kick so hard!!! Led's Stairway brings me back to the days I was still more interested with toys than anything else... 

Has anyone tried the PM-3 with the Oppo HA-1, just wondering how that pairing sounds?

The PM-3 is a lot of headphone for the price. Controlled bass and crisp highs. It's the kind of headphone that I could listen to for hours with no fatigue and it's pretty comfy. The EL-8 in it's current form is pretty bad IMO.

goldendarko said:

Has anyone tried the PM-3 with the Oppo HA-1, just wondering how that pairing sounds?

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I thought they paired very well together. To my ears the pm-1 is tuned quite similarly to the pm-3 so it makes for a very good match imo. Very natural, open and spacious sounding. Considering my source at the time was just my galaxy s5 playing flacs connected via the headphone output i thought it was exceptional. I can only imagine how good it must sound with a better dac.
 
The ha-2 pairing sounds quite similar to my ears, i wish i had it on me at the time as it would have been interesting to see how its built in dac performs.

miceblue said:

If an amp has a provided number at a low impedance, it has enough current at that load.

Quality != drive, and you specifically said drive.

A headphone is properly driven if it has enough voltage and current. The X5 offers plenty of current as dictated by the power output levels at 16 and 32 ohms and should drive the PM-3, and other low-impedance loads just fine.

Spoiler: Physics and Math

Ohm's Law:
P = I * V
P = I^2 * R
P = V^2 / R

X5's specifications
460 mW at a 16 ohm load, <1% THD+N
0.460/sqrt(0.460*16) = 169.55 mA, 2.71 Vrms

255 mW at a 32 ohm load, <1% THD+N
0.255/sqrt(0.255*32) = 89.26 mA, 2.85 Vrms

28 mW at a 300 ohm load, <1% THD+N
0.028/sqrt(0.028*300) = 9.66 mA, 2.89 Vrms


PM-3's specifications:
1 mW to reach 102 dB SPL at a 26 ohm load
0.001/sqrt(0.001*26) = 6.230 mA, 0.16 Vrms needed from the amplifier

2^6 or 64 times the power is needed from the amplifier to reach 120 dB SPL
120 dB SPL - 102 dB SPL = 18 dB SPL
double the power from the amplifier for every +3 dB SPL gain
18 dB SPL / 3 dB SPL = 6, or the amplifier needs to double its power 6 times to let the PM-3 reach 120 dB SPL

64 mW needed for the PM-3 to reach 120 dB SPL
0.064/sqrt(0.064*26) = 49.6 mA, 1.28 Vrms needed from the amplifier, the X5 can provide way more than those requirements and can thus sufficiently drive the PM-3


I'd say the X5 is voltage-limited for high-impedance headphones, and indeed it is with 8 Vp-p maximum (FiiO's specifications). You can see that the voltage outputs at 32 and 300 ohms are its limiting factor, and current most certainly doesn't seem to be.

Of course quality matters though, I don't think anyone will deny that.

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I'd already known that for a while  It's just that I don't trust numbers anymore, provided by technical description cause it doesn't have fair judgement. Ability to drive = quality, not just a level of loudness

goldendarko said:

Has anyone tried the PM-3 with the Oppo HA-1, just wondering how that pairing sounds?

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Wonderful.  Just not as good as the PM-1 and HA-1 combo, of course.  I'm thinking of ordering a balanced cable for the PM-3, which ought to take things to the next level with the HA-1.

mrscotchguy said:

I see a lot of mention of the dt1350. It's possibly my favorite portable... maybe even favorite closed can. For those who have both the dt1350 and the pm-3, can you comment on any comparisons?

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The DT1350 is also a favorite of mine -- that is why I still have it even though it is extremely uncomfortable. 
 
The DT1350's bass extends way, way deeper...and the highs have more clarity and detail.   But there is nothing wrong with highs of the PM-3, they are also very detailed.  I might actually prefer the highs of the Oppo with certain songs.  
 
The PM-3 soundstage is much wider.  Also, the PM-3's build quality seems to be better -- it looks like it is worth $400.  
 
Comfort goes to the PM-3...but I don't find the Oppo to be very comfortable.   It's not that the PM-3 is uncomfortable (the DT1350 is actually extremely uncomfortable), it just not as enjoyable to wear as most of the circumaural headphones I've used over the years.  My ears are squished and they become hot after a few minutes.   Because of the comfort issues I am experiencing, I am not sure I'm going to keep this can.  I can't even experiment with aftermarket pads (which I'm sure would fix my problems) because the pads are not user-replaceable.
 
If you like the DT1350 then you will probably like the PM-3.   They have different signatures, but they both are equally delicious.   
 
 
I have the PM-3 on my head right now...man, this is one good sounding headphone!!!

Would a portable amp with the PM 3 and the AK120 be an overkill or would it make it go somewhere extra special? Just curious...If so any recommendations to check out? 

mrscotchguy said:

I see a lot of mention of the dt1350. It's possibly my favorite portable... maybe even favorite closed can. For those who have both the dt1350 and the pm-3, can you comment on any comparisons?

Click to expand...

To me, this is a better version of what I liked about the DT-1350. Its got that very resolved/smooth sound. The bass on the dt-1350 extends a bit further, but the PM-3s do everything else better IMO. The gorgeous midrange and bells and symbols, etc sound amazingly real in space showing just how resolved the treble is.

If you like the DT-1350, you'll most likely like these even better.

jml said:

 
Wonderful.  Just not as good as the PM-1 and HA-1 combo, of course.  I'm thinking of ordering a balanced cable for the PM-3, which ought to take things to the next level with the HA-1.

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I agree with this comment by JML but since I will be using my PM-3 with my HA-2 99% of the time I won't be looking for a balanced cable for the PM-3.  I will post my impressions about my experiences with the PM-3/HA-2 combination in the near future.  I just got the HA-2 last Thursday, suffice to say I am very impressed.