DUNU DN-2000J -- More Than Evolution?
Jun 17, 2015 at 1:11 AM Post #706 of 2,123
  Wow where did you get it from? Or is it available from any music shop?


Think it's that price because of the Yen has fallen greatly against the Dollar over the past year. e-earphone probably sells it at that price in-shop. 36000 Yen, using a currency converter, translates to ~$292 at the moment. A real price estimate would make it a little over $300 because of currency exchange rates and everything. I believe DUNU is also doing introductory pricing for a few weeks; pre-orders here are 9500 NT, which is 1000 NT less than retail. That translates to about $307 USD.
 
Jun 17, 2015 at 6:58 AM Post #707 of 2,123
Ok so I came back to LMUE to give the 2kJ another try in case it was a sealing issue. As is i think it had been burning in for quite some time. I took out all my tuning rings, popped it into the X5ii and lo and behold it sounded amazing. Lush and big soundstage. AND THERE WAS BASS. So it's entirely possible that i didn't get a seal the last time. Really got to push it deep in. Goodness it's punchy. Separation is amazing too. It is still fairly bright but nit intolerably so anymore. This one might actually benefit a lot from burn in.

I'll put the tuning rings back on so whoever comes next to try can try with and without the rings.

If the Deltas truly manage to sound like this to my ears i will a very happy guy.

Edit: tried the X3 on high gain again as well. Great sound too but a little harsher tgan the X5ii.
 
Jun 17, 2015 at 7:37 AM Post #708 of 2,123
Deltas aren't as bright, and bass isn't quite as well defined - but they have something with them which I find highly addictive. One of the things I love is their spatial sound.  With the right music ....... nirvana (for me at least).
 
Jun 17, 2015 at 9:06 AM Post #709 of 2,123
Glad that helped you! :D  

Perhaps you could give it a try for a couple of weeks first to let the drivers and your brain burn in. Should you still feel that the price is difficult to swallow, you'll definitely not find a lack of ready buyers over here. :tongue_smile:

On the comfort issue, somehow the 2000J wasn't as comfortable to wear with wires over-ear compared with the 2000. Those little metal stud things were poking into my ear. With wires down though, the silicon hook things made it super comfortable.


Wow where did you get it from? Or is it available from any music shop?

E-earphone store in Akihabara
Online price via www.kakaku.com is 39,800yen, but my friend got it for me over the shop counter for 36,000yen.
 
Jun 17, 2015 at 12:06 PM Post #710 of 2,123
  Deltas aren't as bright, and bass isn't quite as well defined - but they have something with them which I find highly addictive. One of the things I love is their spatial sound.  With the right music ....... nirvana (for me at least).

 
Gah 3 more weeks...! @Bobtrinity
 

E-earphone store in Akihabara
Online price via www.kakaku.com is 39,800yen, but my friend got it for me over the shop counter for 36,000yen.

 
Thanks for the heads up! So happens that I've a friend there now. Shall pass it on to him then .
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Jun 19, 2015 at 4:47 AM Post #711 of 2,123
Looks like DN2000J has driven the price of DN2000 down in China, now you can get DN2000 for less than $200 while J is a bit over $300. Really hard to decide if the new version is 100 bucks better than the old.
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 6:55 AM Post #712 of 2,123
Looks like DN2000J has driven the price of DN2000 down in China, now you can get DN2000 for less than $200 while J is a bit over $300. Really hard to decide if the new version is 100 bucks better than the old.


The question is fundamentally about your preference for sound. In terms of resolution, yes, the J is unquestionably better. But the thinnner, brighter signature is not for everyone.
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 6:55 AM Post #713 of 2,123
  Looks like DN2000J has driven the price of DN2000 down in China, now you can get DN2000 for less than $200 while J is a bit over $300. Really hard to decide if the new version is 100 bucks better than the old.


Soooooo it's just like what we see as dn1k for ~$200 and dn2k for $300.....a $100 difference, outside China,for us.
biggrin.gif
  (maybe not include you :wink: )
 
Jeez Mainland Chinese are damn so lucky to get 2k for under $200 and what, might it take another 6-8 months or until next release from Dunu, for us to see that price for 2K?.....
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Jun 19, 2015 at 7:25 AM Post #714 of 2,123
The sound signature of D2000J is so damn close to K3003, but for a fraction of the price. I wonder, if the street price of K3003 will go down now. 
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 11:00 AM Post #717 of 2,123
I heard that the DN2000 sale is only temporary, special for this weekend (something about a company annual sale or holiday festivity). So the price will go back up in China after the weekend.

 
You're thinking the jd.com 618 sale, and sure it's $190 there, but plenty of sellers have it for just a bit more now.
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 12:31 PM Post #718 of 2,123
  The sound signature of D2000J is so damn close to K3003, but for a fraction of the price. I wonder, if the street price of K3003 will go down now. 

 
I doubt it (K3003 dropping price due to the DN2000J). They don't see DUNU as a threat yet, especially in the North American market.
 
Especially when there is a huge number of people who will simply not buy a product because it's from a Chinese brand. That's the truth. And these same people, don't realize that even non-Chinese brands are manufactured in China. 
 
Nowadays, there should be no reason why products should cost so much. The dollars all go to marketing, and to protect themselves from the "return culture". 
 
Jun 20, 2015 at 8:49 AM Post #719 of 2,123
  You're thinking the jd.com 618 sale, and sure it's $190 there, but plenty of sellers have it for just a bit more now.

 
Perhaps so. I don't live there, so that's just what I've heard. At any rate, the official word is that they're only putting it on sale for a temporary time, though if other sellers are dropping the price permanently, it's either that they feel they want to clear stock to make way for the DN-2000J or that they want to take advantage of the overall sales atmosphere to make some windfall money. Who knows. Whatever it is, it's their prerogative, unless they're contractually bound not to go below a certain price, in which they'd be in violation of their retailer contract.
 
  I doubt it (K3003 dropping price due to the DN2000J). They don't see DUNU as a threat yet, especially in the North American market. Especially when there is a huge number of people who will simply not buy a product because it's from a Chinese brand. That's the truth. And these same people, don't realize that even non-Chinese brands are manufactured in China. Nowadays, there should be no reason why products should cost so much. The dollars all go to marketing, and to protect themselves from the "return culture". 

 
Mostly agree. DUNU, by their own admission, do not play on the same field as AKG. What they have done, however, is take that hybrid modality that AKG pioneered and made it their own, and that's why they're garnering praise. AKG is still a leader in this field, and thus can draw on the resources of their parent conglomerate corporation, Harman International. Their acoustic engineers are still leading thinkers in the industry and the K3003 was a forerunner. They had to have had a sizeable development budget for the K3003 --- DUNU has had the advantage of seeing that it can be done. It's not like AKG is running around doing super slick marketing a la Beats --- they've mostly squandered their marketing opportunities, doing mostly rebranding efforts with people like Quincy Jones and Tiesto. With the AKG K3003, save for apt product placement in mainstream magazines like GQ and others, the K3003 has mostly advertised itself. It might be that the K3003 dared to be one of the first (though not the first --- that dubious honor goes to FAD) in-ears to go over the century mark in price, but for the most part, pricing strategy for them has work. On the other hand, pricing strategy might be working against DUNU here; because of what people have come to expect, most simply don't believe the 2000J can be a near equal to the K3003, and don't expect it to be. They've been somewhat pidgeonholed into consumers thinking that their products are not as good simply on account of price. What I've seen from my interactions with the company are that DUNU's people are hard workers who aren't afraid of making mistakes if it means ultimately achieving a quality product. They've had some mistakes here and there, and the 2000J is probably their most thought out product ever, despite it sounding somewhat similar to the K3003.
 
The reality, however, is that there are a lot of Chinese companies that do not create high-quality products, and there simply aren't enough ones that do that will reverse the public stereotype that Chinese products are sub par and are only affordable because of corner cutting. Branding and marketing are actually important elements to a company gaining the trust of the public --- beyond marketing, branding helps communicate a cohesive vision for a company, and that's what a lot of companies, DUNU included, are missing. Many niche audio companies use their founder to get their brand vision across to enthusiasts, or employ slick marketing schemes. Most Chinese companies, with the exception of perhaps HiFiMAN and Dr. Bian, don't have such a spokesperson who can reach both to the billions in their domestic market of China and to the rest of the world (in English, as a lingua franca). Others simply don't know how to put forth the proper marketing and branding effort necessary even when they have the monetary resources. Some of these companies are bigger than they appear, and they simply have no idea how to allocate their budget the right way.
 
Jun 21, 2015 at 3:48 AM Post #720 of 2,123
K3003 vs. DN2000J sound comparison:
 

 
Impressions and thoughts from A/B listening sessions with the K3003 (reference filter) and 2000J at low to medium volume.
 
 
1. Joni Mitchell - In France they kiss on main street (play a 30sec loop starting at 00:10)
 
 
 
This is from one of my all-time favorite live albums: Joni Mitchell on vocals, Jaco Pastorius on bass, Pat Metheny on guitar... need I say more?
 
Even though the K3003 and 2000J share a lot of similar traits, they're overall surprisingly different in how they render this track. First of all, the 2000J are a lot clearer, crisper and more immediate. The K3003s sound almost laid-back in comparison, Joni's voice relaxed with a slight warm-ish hue, Jaco's brilliant bass a tad on the soft side, but a solid foundation to the mids and lending depth to the performance. Vocals virtually floating on top of the bass line. Percussion rather polite, tastefully taking a back seat, leaving the center stage to the mids.
 
With the 2000J, bass gains tightness, its main emphasis shifting a bit towards deep bass. A noticeable improvement in low range clarity, though part of the depth is lost as a result of faster decay. Gone, too, is the AKG's vocal warmth, fundamentals sound leaner, vocals brighter and more immediate. Percussion more forward to a point where it's almost competing with the vocalist. A significantly more analytical rendering overall, but also more in-your-face and less 3D than the K3003's.
 
 
2. Harvey Summers - Jupiter (play a 60sec loop starting at 01:00)
 

 
Now, how much "faster" is the 2000J's bass in reality, and is the K3003's actually "slow"? I use two different test tracks to assess bass transients, an extremely fast recording (Origin - The Aftermath) and a slower, yet highly reverberant track. Here's the latter one, featuring the great Danny Thompson on bass, and it can sound like a river of mud with overly bloated or reverberant IEMs, when decay fails to keep up with a steady supply of bass energy.
 
Fortunately the K3003 steer clear of these difficulties and retain good bass detail, at least at low to medium volume. But in direct A/B comparison it becomes obvious that the 2000J offer better definition and more headroom, particularly for those who prefer to listen a bit louder. Likewise, I'd think that listeners who are used to ultra-fast BA bass will likely prefer the 2000J's transients to the K3003's, although the deeper 3D effect of the AKG's slower decay has its own special charm.
 
 
3. Natalia Sikora - Euforia (play a 60sec loop starting at 03:30)
 
(Edit: got notified that this video doesn't work in all countries - please try the soundcloud link instead)
 

 
Yup, it's Polish. And nope, I don't understand a single word either. But damn that lady can sing, and that's not even all. Let's focus on 3:50+ where she launches into a spine-chilling scream that somehow morphs into a guitar solo... well at least on the K3003, it definitely sounds like a guitar solo. On the 2000J, I'm not quite sure whether it's supposed to be a guitar solo with accompanying percussion, or a percussion solo with accompanying guitar :wink: Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you get the picture... in other words, cymbals on the 2000J sound a tad too splashy to these ears, with stuff like this. Not a biggie, but I think the K3003 have ever so slightly better balance throughout the upper mids and highs.
 
 
5. Brahms - Symphonie N° 2 (loop from 45:15 till the end)
 

 
So, let's get to the bottom of the 2000J's upper range and move on to one of my most unforgiving test tracks. Don't get me wrong, I dearly love this piece. But the finale can be plain torture with overly bright / harsh / splashy IEMs, when strings and brass decide to team up and bring out the knifes to attack your eardrum...
 
What can I say, I've heard worse, much worse. But there's no denying that the 2000J are tethering on the brink of what I personally can bear without flinching. In fact, it was this track that convinced me that the clear silicone tips benefit from additional damping. However, like with the K3003 and bass (see track 2), it ultimately depends on listening volume, so those who listen too loudly with the K3003 will probably complain about bad bass definition, and those who listen too loudly with the 2000J will probably complain about treble spikes. Pick your poison... or stay within a reasonable volume range.
 
 
6. Beethoven - Sonata No. 28 in A major - II. Vivace alla Marcia (play entire track)
 

 
For some reason, I've found that piano is one of the hardest instruments to reproduce and one of the most relentless to reveal deficiencies in IEMs. It also spans a wide frequency range, hence it's ideally suited to assess timbre across the entire spectrum, and (dare I say it :wink: coherence. With this particular track, I have a delicate relationship, because it made me fall in love with the Sennheiser Orpheus, and... it literally killed my Ortofon e-Q8. But enough rambling, let's get to the point.
 
Once again, the 2000J and K3003 sound similar at first, but as you listen deeper the 2000J's lack of warmth in the lower range and more forward upper range lend them a slightly harder edge and more directness. Everything sounds extremely clear and very much upfront on the Dunus, whereas the K3003 provide more of a room feel and a slightly warmer, smoother, more refined listening experience. (Speaking of which, it's mind-boggling how the Orpheus effortlessly manages to convey all the energy of the piano without the slightest hint of edginess or metallic sheen - I'm looking at you, TWFK :wink:.
 
Now for the dreaded c-word, let's make this short and sweet: the 2000J win. They may sound a bit more edgy and fatiguing overall, but their titanium-coated bass driver is a better companion to their fast-decaying armature than the K3003's comparatively softer bass implementation. As a result, note-weight on the 2000J is surprisingly coherent across the whole piano spectrum, while it's definitely easier to pick out different driver characteristics with low and high piano notes on the K3003.
 
 
Conclusion:
 
I've been listening pretty much exclusively to the K3003 and 2000J for two weeks now, and imo both belong without a doubt to the top league of IEMs. However, no IEMs I've heard to date have been without weaknesses, and sure enough these two aren't perfect either, despite their many virtues. Please read the above impressions to get a detailed idea of their pros and cons from my subjective listener's point of view.
 
But here's the most interesting aspect of my two week's journey: I started out thinking the 2000J were pretty much K3003 clones with minor variations here and there. But the longer I'm listening to them, the more I'm convinced that there may be different priorities, even different mindsets behind these phones. On the one hand AKG, opting for a sound signature that's at the same time highly detailed, comparatively non-fatiguing and impressively spacious. High-end (dynamic driver) headphone sound may have been their standard, and they (or rather Knowles) may have put considerable effort into coaxing the armatures to support that design goal. On the other hand DUNU, taking a no-compromise-whatsoever approach on clarity / resolution and creating a set of hybrid IEMs that not only can go head to head with the best multi-BAs in that regard, but even best them in bass texture with their super-rigid dynamic driver. Granted, they may not be among the least fatiguing and most 3D sounding phones out there, but they offer one of the clearest windows into the music you'll ever experience.
 
Bottom line: two winners, pretty much at eye level with each other. Two highly attractive offerings, but with slightly different sonic flavors. If money is no object, simply choose the one that suits you better (or get both :wink:. If you're on a budget, the 2000J are a no-brainer.
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Edit: added link to "DUNU DN-2000J Blu-Tacked" (a simple mod to reduce vocal sibilance and cymbal splashiness on the 2000J)
 

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