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Hifiman HE1000 Planar Dynamic Flagship - Page 200

post #2986 of 8598
no, im not saying that were was a phase issue. just curious if the effect you are describing is similar in nature? cheers
post #2987 of 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebear View Post
 

 

Thanks a lot for sharing your impressions !

You describe "sitting right in the middle of the band" :wink:... as I am not a musician on stage playing an instrument this effect might be impressive first but long term I think it is quite annoying.

I heard the HE1000 prototype in NYC in January and I had a distinct in head localization effect (exactely between my ears). The HD800 on the other hand is so far the only headphone that gives me an almost speaker like around the head soundstage impression.

 

Can you please elaborate a little more on the sound stage of the HE1000 vs the HD800?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post
 

 

Nice impressions, thank you for those.

I'll really need to hear these for myself.

What worries me a bit is that you found them less impactful than a HD-800 which I don't rate very high impact wise being used to a TH-900. 

 

Hi there,

 

So I found the HE1000 to be exactly the opposite of what you mentioned, icebear, not at all localized to just the middle of the head, it seemed more that various details during the classical tracks were coming at me from different directions. As for the soundstage, it of course was very open but what impressed me more was the quality of the bass, the natural reverb and decay of various instruments, to me it sounded detailed, natural and not harsh or unpleasant at all. I'm going to say a lot of it is down to personal preference, I just enjoyed these more than the HD800s. 

 

I would like to see what the actual measurements are once it's actually out, compared with the other flagships. Right now I just have subjective impressions based on my own listening experience (and I still think I have a ways to go yet), and to answer some of the PMs I've gotten, not able to compare it to the SR-009, or the AB-1266 since I've not actually heard those :tongue: 

post #2988 of 8598
This is all very interesting to me...I don't really have TOTL cans like some of you, but I have the HE 560, Koss ESP 950, Senn 650, FAD Pandora Hope VI, Shure 1560, Shure 1540, assorted iems and other assorted stuff. I can't say I EVER experienced an "out of head" surround soundstage and imaging as I do listening to speakers (do hear things laterally away from the headphones to some extent, but no circling in front of my head). Always interested in how different people's perceptions are! Maybe I need to get much higher than the $1k that some of these cans list for...
post #2989 of 8598
I've noticed lots of people having different takeaways from the same equipment too, which is why I stopped being overly concerned about measurements and hype, and try to actually LISTEN and feel how the sound affects me. I'm still relatively new on this journey compared to many here, which is why I was very glad to be a part of the recent event. Don't think I'll be hearing anything that good for some time yet.

For the planar magnetic scene, I'm interested to see how the Ether compares to the HE1000 and the rumoured new Audeze lineup this year. I'm trying to limit myself to just a DAP upgrade (ok, maybe an IEM as well, if a good deal shows up) but already it's proving challenging tongue.gif
Edited by echineko - 4/13/15 at 7:00pm
post #2990 of 8598
Quote:

Originally Posted by echineko View Post

 

Hi there,

 

So I found the HE1000 to be exactly the opposite of what you mentioned, icebear, not at all localized to just the middle of the head, it seemed more that various details during the classical tracks were coming at me from different directions.

 

*SNIP*

 

...not able to compare it to the SR-009, or the AB-1266 since I've not actually heard those :tongue: 

 

Agreed here. The HE-1000's soundstage is definitely not in your head - it's the closest experience to speakers I've ever heard so far with headphones (maybe with the exception of the SR-009).

 

If you can, you should listen to the SR-009 or the AB-1266 sometime. They are also amazing headphones, I would say overall on par with the HE-1000 but have different sound presentations.

post #2991 of 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by chowmein83 View Post

Agreed here. The HE-1000's soundstage is definitely not in your head - it's the closest experience to speakers I've ever heard so far with headphones (maybe with the exception of the SR-009).

If you can, you should listen to the SR-009 or the AB-1266 sometime. They are also amazing headphones, I would say overall on par with the HE-1000 but have different sound presentations.

How would you describe the difference in sound presentations between the 3 (HE-1000, SR-009 & AB-1266) just curious. And which do you prefer?
post #2992 of 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldendarko View Post


How would you describe the difference in sound presentations between the 3 (HE-1000, SR-009 & AB-1266) just curious. And which do you prefer?

 

Curious as well, and add LCD-3 and LCD-XC to that list!

post #2993 of 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldendarko View Post


How would you describe the difference in sound presentations between the 3 (HE-1000, SR-009 & AB-1266) just curious. And which do you prefer?


Me too. :)​

post #2994 of 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by echineko View Post

I've noticed lots of people having different takeaways from the same equipment too, which is why I stopped being overly concerned about measurements and hype, and try to actually LISTEN and feel how the sound affects me. I'm still relatively new on this journey compared to many here, which is why I was very glad to be a part of the recent event. Don't think I'll be hearing anything that good for some time yet.

For the planar magnetic scene, I'm interested to see how the Ether compares to the HE1000 and the rumoured new Audeze lineup this year. I'm trying to limit myself to just a DAP upgrade (ok, maybe an IEM as well, if a good deal shows up) but already it's proving challenging tongue.gif

Rumoured new Audeze line up????

 

Do you know something I don't? All there has been any sign of is the 1200 ohm carbon fibre model.

post #2995 of 8598

I think that's exactly the one he's talking about, Audeze LCD-Z

post #2996 of 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by XVampireX View Post
 

I think that's exactly the one he's talking about, Audeze LCD-Z

I asked about the Z at Canjam and he said it's nowhere near ready.  It'll be a while.  Keep you pants on folks.  lol

post #2997 of 8598

As far as I know, the HE-1000 wasn't auditioned with the Cavalli Liquid Carbon prototype at SoCal.  If it did I happen then I'd love to hear some impressions.

 

I purchased the LC today thinking it would partner well with the HE-1K, which may be in my future.

post #2998 of 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldendarko View Post

How would you describe the difference in sound presentations between the 3 (HE-1000, SR-009 & AB-1266) just curious. And which do you prefer?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewhypolite View Post
 


Me too. :)​

 

OK, where do I begin? Do note that most of these comparisons will be from memory, and I can't guarantee that they'll be 100% accurate.

 

Overall sound signature: This is going to be a tough one, since while I feel that the HE-1000's signature remained relatively constant in the two setups that I have heard it in (paired with Hifiman's HM-901s DAP and EF-1000, and with the Schiit Ragnarok and Yggdrasil), the setups that I have heard the SR-009 and the Abyss through showed those two headphones to be significantly influenced by the source and amp. In terms of brightness in its sound signature, I would rate the HE-1000 somewhere in between the SR-009 and the Abyss, with the SR-009 being the brightest and the Abyss being the warmest.

 

The HE-1000 sounded brighter out of the Schiit setup than the Hifiman setup, and tonally the latter was more agreeable to my ears. However, I do note that the SR-009 can sound a bit warmer and thus get closer to the HE-1000 sound if it (the SR-009) is paired with something like Frank Cooter's electrostatic tube amp at CanJam. Also, I felt the Abyss was somewhat sterile, cold when paired with the Moon Neo 430HA but became warmer when paired with a Woo Audio tube amp (not sure about the exact model, sorry!). So I if I were to compare the HE-1000 on the EF-1000, the Abyss on the Woo Audio tube amp, and the SR-009 on Frank Cooter's electrostatic tube amp, I would say tonally all three are actually kind of close, but that still one would be able to hear that the SR-009 was the brightest by a hair, the HE-1000 in the middle, and the Abyss the warmest by a bit.

 

Soundstage and Imaging: The Abyss has a more up-front, in-your-face presentation, while the HE-1000 and the SR-009 present the music further away from you. As for whether the music feels further away from you in the HE-1000 or in the SR-009, I don't exactly remember, but that probably means that there isn't that big of a difference in this regard between those two headphones. In terms of soundstage width, I would say that the Abyss and the HE-1000 are approximately the same - they both have a decently wide soundstage. I believe the SR-009 has a somewhat wider soundstage than the other two. In terms of depth, the HE-1000 and the SR-009 have a much deeper soundstage than the Abyss - a big reason as to why I said earlier that the Abyss has a more up-front presentation. The Abyss' imaging capabilities are quite good, excellent even, but the HE-1000 and the SR-009 simply take it up another notch. The SR-009 and the HE-1000 simply image with pinpoint accuracy - you can easily tell and pick out individual instruments in an orchestra, and notice even very tiny changes (very slight pans and the like) with ease in sound placement in the music. 

 

However, one thing that the SR-009 and the HE-1000 can do that the Abyss cannot do is present a holographic soundstage. To be honest, I never really understood what people meant by a "holographic soundstage" in a headphone until I heard the HE-1000 and the SR-009. When listening to either of those headphones, it simply sounds like the instruments, vocalists, and other parts of the music are materializing around you, as if you were actually in the room with the musicians. It also helps here that both of these headphones have the amazingly accurate imaging like I said before. (With the Abyss, it also does sound like you're with the musicians, but in a different sense. I'll get to that later.) That is, the SR-009 and the HE-1000 are the only two headphones that I have ever felt like that sounded more like speakers rather than headphones.

 

Bass: I've reserved a special section here just for bass. Don't worry, I'll talk about the mids and treble, but those apsects will be more incorporated into the "strengths of each headphone" section that's coming up next.

 

For bass quality, I have to say that the Abyss is the most impressive to me. It extends really low, is well-controlled, isn't bloated at all, and hits extremely hard. And it does this while having the most bass out of all of these headphones. In fact, the Abyss to me out of any headphone I have ever heard has bass most like a well-controlled subwoofer. It's not quite there, but it's definitely the closest and something I thought wasn't possible out of a headphone. The HE-1000 and surprisingly, the SR-009 also have well-controlled bass that also extends really low and hits hard, but neither hits as hard as the Abyss does. From what I remember, the overall bass quality between the HE-1000 and the SR-009 are comparable, but the HE-1000 has somewhat more bass, which I prefer over the relatively less bassy SR-009. However, that is not to say that the SR-009 sounds thin or anything - it will produce some wonderfully detailed and pleasing bass when the music calls for it.

 

Strengths: While all three of these headphones are extremely transparent and realistic sounding, and all three are great all-around headphones, I have to say each of the three has unique strengths that cater to some specific types of music.

 

For orchestral and classical music, I would go with the SR-009. There is a quickness and agility in how the SR-009 portrays its treble that I feel is not quite matched by the HE-1000 and the Abyss, though admittedly the HE-1000 actually gets quite close to the SR-009 in this regard. The SR-009 never sounds even close to being confused in highly complex music, and as such is wonderful to listen to in these cases. It also helps that it has a holographic soundstage and pinpoint accurate imaging, which to me really helps in classical and orchestral music. And for me, I actually do kind of prefer a slightly brighter sound signature in listening to these types of music (but not extremely bright), which is another point in the SR-009's favor here. However, I would not hesitate to say that the HE-1000 is also great at classical and orchestral music (as it does share some of the same traits as the SR-009, most notably soundstage, that helps it here). While the Abyss sounds good for these genres of music, it doesn't quite reach the same heights as the SR-009 (and the HE-1000) does here.

 

For any music that has emphasis on vocals (especially female vocals), I definitely feel that the HE-1000 is the best out of these three headphones. The HE-1000 sound signature makes it so that there is just enough brightness so that one can hear all of the subtle details in a person's voice and singing, yet there is enough warmth to give vocals enough weight that makes for a realistic sound. Also, the vocals in the HE-1000 are close to you, but yet not so close that you feel as if the singer's face is almost touching yours and singing right to you - in other words, I feel that the HE-1000 strikes a great balance between being too close and being too far away from you in the placement of vocals. The SR-009 similarly strikes a good balance between being distant and being intimate in its vocals, but I feel as if the vocals are slightly lacking weight that makes it sound slightly (and I mean slightly) less realistic than in the HE-1000. As for the Abyss, the vocals are placed too close to me for my taste. Besides that, I loved the weight of the Abyss' vocals, which are perhaps a bit weightier than with the HE-1000 but still highly enjoyable.

 

For jazz, or EDM, the Abyss is the one to go for. Earlier, I said that listening to music with the Abyss also makes you feel like you're in the same room with the musicians, but not in the soundstage sense. Well, that's because the bass is so well done that you really feel like you're in the recording studio or in the lounge listening to the musicians perform live. Combine the extremely well-done bass with the relatively intimate soundstage of the Abyss (compared to the HE-1000 and SR-009) and excellent transparency, and you feel like you're there (in a small recording studio or club). The SR-009 I would say fares the worst in this type of music (though it will still do a good job) due to its relatively greater emphasis on the treble, while the HE-1000 fares better (but doesn't quite reach the level of the Abyss here). To be more specific about the HE-1000 here, while I feel it does a decent job at EDM (because it still does have excellent quality bass), it actually does a pretty dang good job at jazz (the more distant soundstage puts me off a little for jazz, but the HE-1000 still has great bass and a good amount of energy to make jazz sound quite nice).

 

(That is not to say that you don't get the feeling of being there at all with the SR-009 and the HE-1000. I would say the SR-009's sound presentation sounds the most like what I would imagine the experience to be listening to an actual orchestra, ad the HE-1000 sound the most like what I would imagine the experience to be listening to a vocalist singing her heart out in front of me.)

 

Overall, if I were to get only one headphone out of these three, I would get the HE-1000 if we're talking purely about sound. (If we factor in price, comfort, and other factors, that makes the HE-1000 even more of a no-brainer for me.) In that kind of case, as I listen to a great variety of genres of music, I would want to get something that does pretty well in all genres, if not excellent in any certain genre. (Notice how I never said that the HE-1000 wasn't really suited for any type of music mentioned.) Also, the HE-1000 shares some of the soundstage aspects that the SR-009 has. Soundstage and imaging are quite important to me, so if I can get a headphone that shares much of the same qualities that one of the soundstaging kings, the SR-009, has but yet still have a somewhat more "exciting" sound signature, that's what I would go for. And to me, that's what the HE-1000 represents - it mixes some of the best characteristics of both the SR-009 (holographic soundstage, imaging) and the Abyss (warmth, excitement) and puts it all into one package.

 

(A last note - if I had the money, I would definitely get all three headphones. All are excellent, and all have their own strengths which each plays really well to as I said above.)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleheadMay View Post
 

 

Curious as well, and add LCD-3 and LCD-XC to that list!

 

Unfortunately, I'm not the biggest fan of Audeze's sound signature. So I don't really feel it is fair for me to rate how the LCD-3 (I simply just haven't spent much time with the LCD-XC) compares to the other three headphones. But I can still say some things on this topic. One, while the LCD-3's treble is really toned down compared to the HE-1000, Abyss, and SR-009, it still presents an amazing amount of detail. However, the HE-1000, Abyss, and SR-009 simply have a level of transparency and realism that the LCD-3 cannot match. Soundstage on the LCD-3 to me is notably smaller than any of the other three headphones. Imaging on the LCD-3 is quite good, actually kind of close to Abyss level, but the HE-1000 and the SR-009 are on a whole another level here. Overall, I wouldn't rate the LCD-3 to be the same class as the three other headphones. (I personally consider the LCD-3 to be around the same class as the HD800, which in my opinion is the next step down from the SR-009, HE-1000, and Abyss.)

 

Whew, this post took quite a while to write. While this is only one man's opinion, hopefully somebody finds this comparison enlightening.

post #2999 of 8598
Thanks a lot for this detailed report Chowmein, I found it really useful!
I can relate to your findings of the 009 and LCD3 due to my experiences with the 007 and LCD2.
So when I put it all together and know that rock, vocal and classical is the major part of my music listening, the HE-1000 seems like the most attractive choice to me in this category of phones.
On top of that I figure it will be more than properly amped with my GS-X and Zana which will make it a lot more cost effective than a Stax with a new BH for sure.
And be a nice compliment to my various Lawton/Fostex, W3000ANV and HD650 phones.
Edited by AppleheadMay - 4/14/15 at 3:16pm
post #3000 of 8598
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebear View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post
 

when you say in between the ears, are you referring to a similar effect like the center vs twisted (polarity test on http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php)?


No , I don't think there was an out of phase issue with a diffuse imaging.

I take it for granted that Dr. Fang Bian, who set up the equipment and Frank and Peter who had been listening to it before I joined, would have detected such an issue...

Imaging was very exact of seperate sound sources (instruments, voice) BUT all of it was inside the head and not around it.

 

I had a weird problem with Fang's set-up in Tokyo sounding this way once, as if everything had switched to mono. This was when the HM901 was a prototype though and there were wires everywhere. I didn't have the same issue with the pair of HE-1000s I tried at Canjam, but I mainly tried them on other gear, such as the Schiit RYgg. If the Hifiman table at the Tokyo show has the same set-up again I'll give it another go and see if I can't figure out what is going on.

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