Damping Mechanical Energy Distortion of STAX and other phones with SORBOTHANE and other materials.

Wondering where everybody else is in here.
There has to be more people using this stuff are they terrified of posting in here or something?
 I thought there was a few HE-400 owners who got some?
 
Another success story tonight.
 I have had these Pioneer 700D Dual Bass Horn things for a while. A 2 way driver setup with a tiny 15mm driver in front of the main 43mm one.
You'd think with the specs like that it should kick butt...
Clarity and top end separation through the roof, low end not so much.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/pioneer/SE-700D.html&usg=ALkJrhg6FrgG7-1rCJZjzbjOU9yTL00nSw

 
Zero stuff inside the cups in stock form.
 
This mod tonight took them to a fantastic level.
Per cup =
SORB :

1. 8 @ 7mm by 15mm bits around the inner rear cup walls base
2. 6 @ 7mm by 10mm = 3 top of driver on outside of baffle 3 bottom
3. 1 @ 6mm by 15mm in the recess of the headband by the headband slider
4. 2 smaller triangles below that in some headband arm cutouts

 
0.3 grams Twaron Angel Hair inside
Thin dense foam from some wrongly sent Audio Technica Active Noise Cancelling pads( ATH-ANC ) 
actually these ones http://www.ebay.com/itm/271702767252?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
This has an added outer ring of foam which sits the pads slightly higher. Awesome foam I want to get more.
 
ABSOLUTELY no comparison to stock. Some real potential in these but no way stock was going to cut it. No wonder they were not in production for long.
Great concept, poor execution. Unless something was seriously off with my set, but doubtful they were clean.
 
Now of course, well, of course they are transformed and supremely enjoyable.
Might swap out for a pad with a smaller opening and see what it brings to the low end which is now exposed and more prominent.

It is very important to sorbothanized the amplifier also, but my Sansui AU-7700 is heavy and his feet  has stressed  too much and almost had ripped one of my sorb. piece (duro 50 that i will replace in days to come with a duro 70 ) put under his feet... Hence i decided to put the sorb. pieces between two granite plates like i had already did some years ago with my heavy subwoofer, to equalize the pressure of the load  applied on the sorbothane  and this  with great success...
:
 In fact after the sorbothanization  of the headphone , all pieces of gear ( including the dac+ the energizer Stax+surge protector) benefit greatly of this damping method and mostly the amplifier, Putting sorbothane under amplifier is  a beneficial modification  almost on par with the sorbing of the headphone ( i means that if you listen with a sorb.-headphone, a sorb.-amplifier, you will certainly hear the difference,especially in the subtleties of the imaging, so the benefits are multiplied by one another ) ....
 
By the way  like i had already said i had also put 2 granite plates under my subwoofer with pieces of sorbothane in between them  some years  ago with great sound benefit,  i think that this method with 2 granite plates under the amplifier  is more effective (better imaging and more airier sound stage); without the granite plates when i put the sorb directly under the 4 feet of the heavy  gear, that create some potential instability, and the stress imposed on the sorb was less homogenuously applied, the damping less  effective  (  some of my piece has even  been rip by the load) with the 2 granite plates all was stable and the effect was better. I now think that  this is the more effective way to put sorbothane pieces under heavy amplifier or subwoofer, not directly under the feet...  ... Thanks to all for the great communication here of their  interestings and helping results....  
 
 
update : after 24 hours  with sorb. between 2 granite plates under my Amplifier i can say that this  is one of the better idea i have had... Definitevely more velvet sound, refinement, and no  more problems with the sorb  right pressure, the plates equalize it rightly... I must say that the big transformer of the Sansui are  on one side of the amp  and made a desequilibrium so huge that the pieces of sorb that i previously put under the feet was too much press and break...The result was less convincing...With the plates all is simple, stable, and the sound is so better that this is evident on first hearing... I will replace the 50 duro pieces by 70 duro one this week, because for the long term this will be better...The sorbothane between the plates absorb better the vibration and resonance of the amp , homogeneously, without breaking... now...
 
After the 2 bricks +sorb. under the feet  mod. for lighter gear like my energizer and my surge protector, for heavyer gear like my sub. and amp.it is the 2 plates mod. with sorb. in between ...This look like a joke but it is not ... All is better... 
 
UPDATE-2 the effect of correctly damping the amplifier is more spectacular on my  planar hybrid speakers  than on my Stax SR-5... i am very glad.... This confirm that application of the right pressure on the sorb is a good thing...

nick n said:

  Wondering where everybody else is in here.
There has to be more people using this stuff are they terrified of posting in here or something?
 I thought there was a few HE-400 owners who got some?
 
Another success story tonight.
 I have had these Pioneer 700D Dual Bass Horn things for a while. A 2 way driver setup with a tiny 15mm driver in front of the main 43mm one.
You'd think with the specs like that it should kick butt...
Clarity and top end separation through the roof, low end not so much.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/pioneer/SE-700D.html&usg=ALkJrhg6FrgG7-1rCJZjzbjOU9yTL00nSw

 
Zero stuff inside the cups in stock form.
 
This mod tonight took them to a fantastic level.
Per cup =
SORB :

1. 8 @ 7mm by 15mm bits around the inner rear cup walls base
2. 6 @ 7mm by 10mm = 3 top of driver on outside of baffle 3 bottom
3. 1 @ 6mm by 15mm in the recess of the headband by the headband slider
4. 2 smaller triangles below that in some headband arm cutouts

 
0.3 grams Twaron Angel Hair inside
Thin dense foam from some wrongly sent Audio Technica Active Noise Cancelling pads( ATH-ANC ) 
actually these ones http://www.ebay.com/itm/271702767252?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
This has an added outer ring of foam which sits the pads slightly higher. Awesome foam I want to get more.
 
ABSOLUTELY no comparison to stock. Some real potential in these but no way stock was going to cut it. No wonder they were not in production for long.
Great concept, poor execution. Unless something was seriously off with my set, but doubtful they were clean.
 
Now of course, well, of course they are transformed and supremely enjoyable.
Might swap out for a pad with a smaller opening and see what it brings to the low end which is now exposed and more prominent.

Click to expand...

i think that almost  the first time i read some remarks of Edstrelow that give me the hunch about the importance of using sorbothane pieces in the headphone and not only under my speakers or amp , he said that sorb. transform ordinary headphone in extraordinary one, this is an extraordinary testimony illustrating that fact ... 

kman1211 said:

True, sometimes coming across something new is an enlightening experience in terms of audio. Not sure if it's a temporary or permanent preference over the Nighthawks yet, only time will tell. Just didn't expect the original/first dynamic headphone driver to sound so good. The DT 480 is the DT 48 in a large housing, which is good which allows for easier modding and pad rolling. It's main problems in stock form are resonance, glare, and seal issues. Modding and pad rolling can be quite fun. It's sad how few headphones are complete so to speak, most headphones just don't have enough and the right type of dampening. That's what's so great about the Nighthawks, it's a complete and fully realized headphone, it's the only headphone I've ever owned that I never had an urge to even consider modding.

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waynes world said:

 
Have you tried sorbothane in those DT 480 puppies of yours?

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kman1211 said:

No I haven't, I really should, just making do with what I have on hand, don't have anything I know that would work very well sadly. Need to get serious about dampening and modding these sometime. Still kind of bass light but tinkering with dampening has showed the bass can be coaxed out and the bass can be very physical(kind of scares me in a sense), more so than even the Nighthawks, benefit of having rigid aluminum drivers that allow for pistonic motion. I like them fine stock with the Shure SRH-1540 pads(though I think different pads may be better) but I know I can squeeze so much more out of them. So much untapped potential.

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kman1211 said:

  Thank you for the link. I already have a couple ideas how I would apply it to the drivers. Probably putting some on or near the outer rim of the driver inside.
 

 

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Hey @nick n, got any thoughts about how kman might want to go about sorbing hit dt480's?

Jeeze anyone else got any ideas.
 Assuming you are used to what they can do stock, do one side at a time maybe. I'd for sure try it slowly depending on how many times you want to open up.
 
Could apply it on the outside if you don't mind peeling it off again when you decide on the final mod  and putting it inside.
 
I'd do squares top and bottom of the driver there, looks like maybe 4 can fit, 2 top 2 bottom, then inside the cups try to get some close to headband arm entry spots as hutnicks has shown headband treatment can often work wonders too ( or a square /bit hidden on the headband itself?)
 
Can't hurt to throw some sound dampening material in the cups also to soak up some stray stuff.
 
Anybody got  any other ideas?
 
Solid pads no doubt would be best for low end bump.

nick n said:

J
Anybody got  any other ideas?

Solid pads no doubt would be best for low end bump.

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Some of us have been finding that large pieces of sorb don't work as well as smaller ones. But don't take that as gospel. Whatever size you chose, make sure its firmly attached. Not only does loose sorb not damp well, a couple of times in my experience it seems to add to bass boominess. I have talked to the tecnical advisor at Sorbothane a couple of times. He admitted that they didn't have much data that would help in audio applications. Some that they had showed reduced damping of thinner sheets below 50Hz. However elsewhere on their site there is a reference to damping down below 20 Hz using very thick sorb. There is quite a lot of information on their site. However some of it looks like rocket science and I'm not a rocket scientist.

edstrelow said:

... < snip >

The sorb pieces are each about 3/8 by 1/2 inch and are 1/8 self-stick. With these phones you stick the sorb right on the main plastic body and that probably helps. I just did a comparison on the SRX3 pro, of sorb on the main body versus the metal cover and it was more effective on the main body. I am doing some other sorb comparisons, and depending on what I find, I may replace the 1/8 in sorb on the 5 with 1/4 inch.  < snip> 

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Ed, I apologize because you have probably previously posted this, but where can people buy 1/8" thick 30 duro Sorbothane sheets ? I'm not finding any sources by Googling. 

It is not possible to repeat too often this Fact : with sorbothane it is necessary to estimate the right amount of compression applied on the sorb. hence to choose rightly the duro and surface of the sob and his height (experimenting is necessary ) ... i had receive the 70 duro pieces i want to put between the plates under the amplifier (30 pounds) in replacement of the 50 duro pieces... More clarity and better effect...

dougd said:

   
Ed, I apologize because you have probably previously posted this, but where can people buy 1/8" thick 30 duro Sorbothane sheets ? I'm not finding any sources by Googling. 

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in place of absent Ed i dare to give you this adress :
 
http://www.isolateit.com/vibration-isolating-sheets-pads-30/sorbothane-vibration-damping-sheet-stock-12-x12in.html
 
you choose the thickness...
 

dougd said:

   
Ed, I apologize because you have probably previously posted this, but where can people buy 1/8" thick 30 duro Sorbothane sheets ? I'm not finding any sources by Googling. 

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  You can also check ebay and amazon.  

richard51 said:

 
in place of absent Ed i dare to give you this adress :
 
http://www.isolateit.com/vibration-isolating-sheets-pads-30/sorbothane-vibration-damping-sheet-stock-12-x12in.html
 
you choose the thickness...
 

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Much thanks, Google probably wasn't finding the combo I spec'd due to the drop-downs in that page.
 
Be nice if you could buy "an experimenter's pack" with a variety of different duro ratings and thicknesses. 

dougd said:

  Much thanks, Google probably wasn't finding the combo I spec'd due to the drop-downs in that page.
 
Be nice if you could buy "an experimenter's pack" with a variety of different duro ratings and thicknesses. 

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very good idea we must suggest to sorbothane cie. a varied duro forms and thickness special pack  for audiophile !  

richard51 said:

  It is not possible to repeat too often this Fact : with sorbothane it is necessary to estimate the right amount of compression applied on the sorb. hence to choose rightly the duro and surface of the sob and his height (experimenting is necessary ) ... i had receive the 70 duro pieces i want to put between the plates under the amplifier (30 pounds) in replacement of the 50 duro pieces... More clarity and better effect...

Click to expand...

I am sure that these things do make a difference.  On a similar vein,
 
n my very first sorbing experiments  I used  clamps to hold sorb onto the metal headband of a Stax SR007A. This was just two pieces of stiff plastic attached by a nut and screw.  I found that you could get some variation in tonal characteristics by adjusting the tightness.  Generally looser gave more bass, tighter less bass and more treble. I must return to this some day.  If you are prepared to do some physical modification of earcups. you could have some kind of tightening arrangement with sorb located inside earcups and then somewhat adjustable.  You can see these and two small metal clamps in the picture.  I finally settled on just the plastic clamps moved down to the top of the earcups.
 

 
 
 
 
 
The other thing to consider with equipment is mounting sorb inside equipment, such as on circuit boards.  Obviously you are not going to do this where boards get hot. 

very interesting suggestions to meditate... expecially about screw in the metal headband... thanks Ed

edstrelow said:

  I am sure that these things do make a difference.  On a similar vein,
 
n my very first sorbing experiments  I used  clamps to hold sorb onto the metal headband of a Stax SR007A. This was just two pieces of stiff plastic attached by a nut and screw.  I found that you could get some variation in tonal characteristics by adjusting the tightness.  Generally looser gave more bass, tighter less bass and more treble. I must return to this some day.  If you are prepared to do some physical modification of earcups. you could have some kind of tightening arrangement with sorb located inside earcups and then somewhat adjustable.  You can see these and two small metal clamps in the picture.  I finally settled on just the plastic clamps moved down to the top of the earcups.
 

 
 
 
 
 
The other thing to consider with equipment is mounting sorb inside equipment, such as on circuit boards.  Obviously you are not going to do this where boards get hot. 

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Wow Edstrelow i will thank you till my death!
 
I put only a piece of 1/8 inches sorb duro 40, pinches  thightly in place by paper metal clamp inside the interior part of the square logo  between the headband and the metal arms attached to the cup of the Stax SR-5 and incredibly that put more clarity on the sound with a better imaging.... INCREDIBLE  2 little pieces of sorb only!   I think that is not possible and yet i hear it now! 
 
I think now that it is necessary to put also the sorb near the headband or on it...The more extraordinary effect is way greater clarity in the high frequencies(bass is also tighter )....It is incredible  and i listen to it now....I think the effect is so extraordinary because the sorb is compressed by the clamps like with my two granite slabs compressing the sorb under my amp... The sorbothane  ideally need some optimal compression to  absorb the vibrations in a better way ...
 
UPDATE :  Imaging is definitively better and sound are less forward...