I'm in one of those Audio Nirvana places right now. My systems are just sounding so good! Lately I have had zero motivation to try and improve them (this is very unusual for me). Listening all day and much of the night to amazing sounds - going back to old recordings and listening to them like the first time. Hearing new stuff - and the depth and imaging is just breathtaking. Last night - Of Monsters and Men 'My Head Is An Animal' - never really liked this album - but last night it sounded really good. Then The Police 'Reggatta da Blanc' - 'Bring on the Night' was jaw dropping (those drum strikes echoing from 6 ft deep behind the speakers out into the room!
Anyway I did try the Viablue with the Remedy/LPS on the main system - it was better then with the el cheapo spdif cable - but in the end prefered the sound without it. Still the Remedy/LPS/Viablue is working very well on my office system with the DAC60.
I have been just a bit curious about trying some new USB cables in the main system - so doing a bit of research there. But the serious contenders are all so darn expensive.
Audio Quest Diamond USB
WW Plat USB
Synergistic Research USB SE Active
Paul Pang RedII
Light Harmonic SR01-08 LightSpeed twin USB
Of the bunch the PP is the 'cheapest' at $339 new. Hoping to find one of these others heavily discounted.
Kind of ruled out the AQ Carbon and the Mapleshade Clearlink plus - the Carbon for lack of detail and the Mapleshade for lack of bass extension and definition.
Right now the Breeze DU-U8 with the Cerious Graphene Xtreme power cord has added so much air, transparency and well at least an octave of deeper better defined bass from the Hydra Z/LPS (and all the other DDC's I've tried) that I'm reluctant to give up any of that up. All with a inexpensive Forza Split Twin Copper.
Another Cerious Graphene PC is coming to try on my main system DAC to face off against the SR Ref X Active - if it doesn't best the SR - it'll go on the DU-U8 in the office system.
Cheers!
the active synergistic cable is hyped as the little plug thingies just change the ohm spec to change the sound signature slightly by adding more noise or taking it away. A lot of money to spend for a gimmicky thing. My opinion
Don't bother with the light speed twin cable. I've tested that before with extensive abx testing with my supra USB cable and the everyone who joined for the test could not pick the two apart. Buy a supra cable and save yourself a grip of cash. The most important thing about USB is keeping it as close to 90ohm spec as possible. That way the PHY IC chip works the least which translates to less noise in the audible signal. LHLabs at least gives you a readout sheet to show its +\- 2ohm from the 90hm spec rating that USB requires. Supra cables are just as accurate. Yet 50 use seems more reasonable to me.the active synergistic cable is hyped as the little plug thingies just change the ohm spec to change the sound signature slightly by adding more noise or taking it away. A lot of money to spend for a gimmicky thing. My opinion
Clean power,l and an excellent source would go farther to improve sound. Example. A Paul Hynes Pr3 linear power supply that powers a Paul pang v3 ocxo pcie USB 3.0 card + proper cable like supra USB = sublime perfection.
Again, my opinion. Based on some facts of course. Signal integrity is key with USB. Or SI. More or less ohms from the 90ohm spec will create slight different sound signatures. But the least noise occurs at 90ohm.
Paul Hynes pr3 is about he best power supply you could ask for, it's possible that some battery supplies "might" be better. But not too likely.
Here is a quote from Hynes
"The PR3 topology regulator circuit I use in the SR7 power supplies is my own proprietary discrete component design which I have optimised for ultra low noise, very wide operating bandwidth and exceptional transient response and settling time. The PR3 is better than 4 dB quieter than the TPS7A4700 from DC to 100 KHz and the supply line rejection is > 4 dB better from DC to 1 KHz and up to 20 dB better from 1 KHz to 100 KHz. PR3 transient response and settling time is much better than the TPS."
So the route I'm going is clear. I would love to hear what you think of the cables you plan to get. Honestly I would rather spend money on components that have a better ROI. Like the ppav3 ocxo and Hynes pr3.
But maybe you already are running one, I can't recal with all the high tech stuff you are getting lately. It's always fun to read your posts to see what component you are trying next.
It surely is exciting to tweak! I know the feeling all too well.
Steve Nugent at Empirical is a huge Paul Haynes fan. How much is his Pr3. Uptone makes a nice one the JS-2 but it's getting into silly money $925. Exploring a LPS for a new PC server project Linux based ( I know Win Server2012 is the bomb - but no native USB 2.0 Audio support rules out this $600 OS for me).
I guess I could try a full blown OR5 for $2700. Paul Haynes reg SPDIF, Turbo Clock, Dynamo PS, BNC, etc... But from what I heard at a friend's house - that may be only a marginal improvement for a whole lot of dash, over the DU-U8/Cerious Graphene.
The PP RedII USB cable is highly rated and 'reasonably' priced, may give that one a go.
Since the USB signal is not just 1's and 0's but analog - I think it's more then just impedance matching (I have a Supra and like it), RFI/EMI, and related things going on. Every USB cable I have tried has sounded different. I imagine that could be ascribed to just impedance variations - but I thought that's what the Regen was supposed to solve? And they still sound different with the Regen and to confused the engineering oriented theories further - the Regen degraded the sound in my main system - with a verity of USB cables! But improved the SQ significantly in my office system - both PC servers virtually identical!
I think there is a lot of other things happening that effects the sound - not just expectation bias. Or why would my 'expectation' of the Regen improving the SQ in my main system, after working so well in my office system fail miserably? Could my subconscious want an improvement in one place but not in the other? And I had two Regens - so had to go through the hassle of selling one.
It may just come down to synergies and preferences. Over Thanksgiving my two sons were over and commenting SQ has improved from the last time we did a Jack Single Barrel musical demo session (and it got loud!). They heard the improvement immediately, I never mentioned the gear changes, that just bores them to tears.
The bass drops on some of the EDM stuff was amazing - never had the Maggies move air like that before. Never hard, etched, or harsh - pure clean and transparent - to very high volume. Drake's 'Hotline Bling' and Calvin Harris 'Who Do You Love' - rocking the house.
Well anyway I may try a PP USB card at some point.
Cheers!
You live near me, and i'm about to order a Paul Hynes SR3 5V system that he is building specificaly for the Paul Pang V3 OCXO PCIE usb3.0 card. I could ask him to build two and see if we can get a discount. if you want. Let me know. We can save on shipping since they are coming from the UK. Hynes is the best PSU builder. I also have a Teddy Pardo that i'll be comparing it to. If you want more details about the SR3 5V then PM me. Also we get a discount from Paul Pang for being Headfi members. FYI.
I live in everett and will be at the meet this weekend.
FYI, i'm selling my Regen Amber, it doesn't improve sound quality on my system. It would if I had more issues with the SI of my usb, and dirty power. But I have a corsair AX1200 with super low ripple! nearly Linear levels, let alone many filters from Eifidelity. But i'm running a dedicated LPS for the PPA3. So the regen amber actually did nothing, if anything made things worse. I am NOT surprised they did that in your system. I don't if you have measured the power noise from your office and your home, i'd guess they vary.
And the USB cable, if properly shielded, and properly built to be 90ohm spec... thats the main importance. The regen makes it LESS of a problem, but it introduces new issues to certain systems. Such as the reclocking, is it needed? NO, not for highly sensitive setups. and power filtering, likely not! are you using an ultra low noise LPS with the regen? or the dreaded SMPS it comes with? Anyhow, the SR3 5V is 4 times more quiet than a typical battery PSU! And the Paul Pang V3 OCXO is highly sensitive to power quality, low noise will alow the femto clock to operate at its rated specs. Dirty power = sub par performance. Anyhow, you know most of this stuff i'm sure.
you say USB is analog, do you have some sources that explain why you say this? It transports analog voltages, but digital data. From everything i've read...USB is a digital cable. there is rarely ever an issue transporting 1s and 0s...the data is always there, but the other issues is the power transport, which is a terrible way to power devices, better to design a cable without power transport. Too many variables otherwise. The ohm spec causes serious issues with noise by effecting Signal Integrity. The USB PHY IC is a noisy bugger, and the receiving end is where that noise happens, its generally from the USB to i2s where that happens ( from what I understand) You probably have already read this article, but please do if you havent. " http://www.audiostream.com/content/uptone-audio-usb-regen "
QUOTED from the link above...
"PHY: PHY is an abbreviation for the electronics that interface to the physical bus. PHYs exist in most every type of data interface (Ethernet, FireWire, optical, etc.) A USB PHY serves two primary functions: to convert the analog voltages used on the Data-plus and Data-minus wires into a digital format normal logic can understand, and to convert the high speed one-bit-at-a-time serial data stream into a slower parallel set of wires to be sent to the USB protocol engine (XMOS processor, FPGA with USB core, etc.). The lowly PHY chip is actually a tremendously noisy and complicated device containing multiple PLLs and clocking at various phases—and there is no such thing as an optimized-for-audio PHY. The PHY part of a DAC’s USB is highly susceptible to the condition of the USB signal, its "Signal Integrity" (SI).
SIGNAL INTEGRITY: A high-speed USB signal runs at 480 mega bits per second, which is fairly high. SI is comprised of the rise/fall times of the signal edges, amplitude of the signal, noise sitting on top of the signal and jitter of the edges. Variations in any or all of these can decrease the SI. The computer determines this initially, and then it can get significantly degraded by running through cables and connectors.
The decrease in SI can be so large that it becomes difficult for the PHY to determine the actual bits. Thus the PHY contains several methods used to pre-process the analog signals in order to make it easier to determine the bits. When the SI is very good, the PHY can turn off the pre-processing steps and easily determine the bits. As the SI degrades the PHY turns on different parts of the pre-processing as needed. Each of these steps takes a fair amount of power to operate, thus creating noise on the power and ground planes. The more processing the PHY needs to use to determine the bits, the more noise is generated. Thus part of the packet noise is directly related to the signal integrity of the incoming signal. The higher the SI, the lower the noise.
PACKET NOISE: In a DAC the data packets coming in on the USB bus are not continuous—there is significant time in-between each packet. Thus the processing of these packets produces noise on the power supply and ground plane that come in bursts, and we refer to this as "packet noise". Since the rate of USB packets is 8KHz there are strong components of this noise in the audio band. This noise can cause jitter in clock oscillators, re-clocking flops, and DAC chips. It can also go directly into noise on the output of DAC chips.
Part of this noise is determined by the USB protocol engine (chip after the PHY) and is going to be constant for a particular DAC.
POWER DELIVERY NETWORK (PDN): In order for a power supply to properly respond to instantaneous load variations, it needs to have a low impedance over a very broad range of frequencies. For digital audio this is from low Hz to hundreds of Mhz range. The entire supply flow from mains AC to board layout and capacitors on the board play a role in getting this right. The process of frequency optimizing the PDN is something that is done in expensive high-speed network equipment, but is almost never done in consumer products, especially audio equipment. (And our experience with the REGEN points to this being quite important for digital audio.)
Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/uptone-audio-usb-regen#1gkejri4LTARFS1q.99"
anyhow, the usb regen is good for some systems. Mine is up for sale...good reason. my system is highly sensitive and tuned well. I would be interested to get together sometime and go over some of our gear. do some abx testing etc. Just a thought, PM me if interested.
and consider the Hynes SR3 5V and PPA3 OCXO.
I'm going to order the SR3 in about a week, and with the fine silver cable. It's the top tier power supply mated to the top tier USB source. Doesnt' get much better of a source to send to your top tier modded DU-U8.
personally, I'd pass on the OR5, as it's magic tends to happen once it has a Hynes powering it. Thats what I understand from the few who have owned them...with and without the Hynes.
-T
Thanks for the offer on the SR3 5V - I'm sure it's a fantastic LPS. Too bad the DU-U8 is AC powered - or I'd go for it - the price around $450 is reasonable.
I'm not sure I'm ready to go with the PPA3 OCXO and the SR3 right now - that's around $900. A bit more then my budget allows, especially at retail prices, I usually like to get stuff used, then if it's not a match not too painful to let go. Especially cables - they seem to be pretty easy to sell. I already have sunk hundreds into the Gustard, Melodious and Breeze experiments. It has paid off though in discovering the DU-U8 at pretty reasonable prices. The Hydra Z I bought used at a great price and sold for the same price. The extra Regen sold at the same price as I paid - so no harm there. Now with my thinking of going to a Linux box - or even a Rasberry Pi2 - the PPA would be a big loss. He seems to launch new stuff quite frequently - diminishing the value of older gear.
I had a bad experience with the SotM USB card - a nightmare of intermittent issues. Sometimes my server would recognize the card, sometimes not - just a frustrating hit or miss. Already Jplay and these Thesycon XMOS drivers are a headache, when pushed hard (super low latency), I'm no computer geek - I hate debugging this crappy MS bloatware. I have a new Win 8.1 laptop for work - an absolute nightmare. I know half a dozen people will say they have it and 10 and it works 'perfectly' 'with never an issue'. Been doing WINTEL for 20 yrs - and there is ALWAYS issues. With enough hair-pulling tweeking when you get it working stable it's a blessing. Of course then a bunch of pushed updates come and it all goes haywire
It'll be Apple or Linux very soon for me.
Good stuff on the PHY - I've read (and posted here awhile ago) a bunch of Uptone's Chief Engineer - John Swenson whitepapers on PHY, 'Packet Noise', and USB impedance issues - and how the Regen was supposed to solve all that. All these theories sound good on paper - sometimes good in practice.
