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Gustard U12 USB Interface 8 Core XMOS chip
Sep 23, 2015 at 11:04 AM Post #2,551 of 3,700
nel1s said:
  So far been enthusiastically following this and other head-fi threads on Asian USB converters and DACs! Not sure this is the right thread, but I have some novice questions that I was hoping to get some answers to.
 
So with the Yuan being cheap, I took the plunge and ordered a Breeze Audio U8 with Talema transformer (http://world.taobao.com/item/520991006222.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.NVH1BP&_u=m2f2ti1v689f) and a Gustard DAC X12 (http://world.taobao.com/item/18012850492.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a1z09.2.0.0.NVH1BP&_u=m2f2ti1v7a14). Looks to be good value at a total US$500 + shipping – thanks to all posters in this thread for pointing in this direction!
 
The U8 & X12 will feature in my setup in one of two ways: RPi -USB-> U8 -I2S-> X12 -XLR-> amp <OR> Windows laptop -USB-> U8 -AES/EBU-> powered studio monitors. I was hoping someone here could help me with a few simple questions on this? I am trying to stay out of the soldering/DIY space as I don’t trust myself with it just yet, so am looking for off-the-shelf solutions if at all possible.
 
1.    1. Connections.
a.    How to connect the U8 and X12 via I2s? U8 has a female RJ45, X12 a female micro HDMI. Does a HDMI extender -> RJ45 connection deteriorate the signal (unlikely as it is digital, but might be!)? I cannot find a male RJ45 -> male micro HDMI cable online. OR should I resort to USB connection instead? If I2S connection, will the U8 and X12 communicate OK – are the pins aligned and are the normal drivers ok for this?
b.    I read somewhere that optimal length of AES/EBU cable (i.e. 110 ohm with XLR connectors) is 1.5m, and that it is good practice to use the 110ohm XLR cables even if transmitting non-digital signal (so, in my system, an analog signal from balanced X12 outputs to amp). Is this true, and are Van Damme an ok brand for this?
c.    Should I use anything other than bog standard UK power cables for all devices, and if so, are they available online in UK?
2.    2. Master clock. This is probably a stupid question, but if I link up the U8 and X12, which device is providing the master clock signal, and is this the optimal solution? (Very happy if the answer to this is only a link to an article that clearly explains what the master clock does in an signal converter + DAC system J)
3.    3. A cheeky bonus question! I am contemplating purchasing an Amphion Amp100 power amp to drive the Amphion One18 monitor speakers. The amp is priced at ~€1k which seems rather steep.. I suspect there is an amp made by Gustard or someone else in Asia that will outperform the Amp100 at half the price or less. The specs are here: http://www.amphion.fi/en/create/products/amp100/ (2 x 50W (RMS) @ 4 ohms). This is what it looks like on the inside: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/amphion/27.png with each of the boards looking like this: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/amphion/28.png
 
MANY MANY thanks to those willing to provide answers. Really loving this stuff and hoping to be better versed in DIY audio imminently.
 
PS: I am loving the google translate Chinese to English renditions but the ‘Department for Social Development’ logo in the Breeze Audio U8 picture on Taobao is particularly hilarious. Any other gems to share?!
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I know enough about cables now, thanks guys! Breeze apparently has some issues with I2S anyways, so AES will be good.
 
Still looking for an exaplanation of master clock slaving and the like - any good links? :)
 
And, I have already one alternative for the amp I was eyeing: building my own with the Anaview AMS1000! See http://headphoneaddict.com/anaview-ams1000-diy-tutorial/ for instructions.
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 1:47 PM Post #2,552 of 3,700
wynnytsky said:
when you said it was safe to make that connection, I relayed that post to a Gustard adopter in NY and that green lighted his PUC2 purchase.
I thought the purchase [without testing] was a bit of a leap but he's telling me its the shasizzle.  That description of the bass is not unique to the PUC2 because I hear the same difference between the U12's coax and AES outputs.

so hungover -- it's taking me more time to proof read that write.  It's a good thing headfi has that feature where I can edit drunken posts.
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Yes, I think the bass tightened just a tad. Not night and day, but I take 1-2% improvement at this point since they add up. :D


Drink water, water, then a steak, then more water! My cure for a hangover:wink:
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 1:50 PM Post #2,553 of 3,700
nel1s said:
I know enough about cables now, thanks guys! Breeze apparently has some issues with I2S anyways, so AES will be good.

Still looking for an exaplanation of master clock slaving and the like - any good links? :)

And, I have already one alternative for the amp I was eyeing: building my own with the Anaview AMS1000! See http://headphoneaddict.com/anaview-ams1000-diy-tutorial/ for instructions.
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DAC master, the Breeze DDC reclocks the PC digital signal. The Hydra Z with Crystek clocks has a BNC clock output to master a DAC, if it has BNC clock input.

Hope that helps!
:D
 
Sep 24, 2015 at 5:22 AM Post #2,554 of 3,700
rb2013 said:
DAC master, the Breeze DDC reclocks the PC digital signal. The Hydra Z with Crystek clocks has a BNC clock output to master a DAC, if it has BNC clock input.

Hope that helps!
biggrin.gif
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Excellent, thank you. One less thing I need to worry about it seems!
 
Now deciding on whether to build my own Anaview AMS1000 class D amp to power passive speakers or opt for the Breeze U8 --> active monitors channel.
 
Sep 24, 2015 at 8:29 AM Post #2,555 of 3,700
nel1s said:
  Now deciding on whether to build my own Anaview AMS1000 class D amp to power passive speakers or opt for the Breeze U8 --> active monitors channel.
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The biggest recent advances in this hobby has been the digital source, so you're already on the right track buying the latest & greatest.  Most people start speakerfi with speakers and work up the chain from there.  The speaker and amp can be crazy vintage and you can still get a timeless stellar sound.  This analog stuff (speakers and amps) haven't evolved as much and the market is flooded with competition, which means you can find some old top tier used equipment at 25% retail price with a finish that's 7/10 or 8/10.  When you consider how much value our currency lost, the savings are even more.  For instance last week a pair of Odyssey Lorelei's sold for $825 in NC (w/ original boxes).  I loose sleep over that one.
 
You should have a ball with craigslist and audiogon finding the amazing stuff selling within 25mi of your home (usaudiomart and audioasylum also).  Imagine your on a bargain hunt reality show -- I love a procurement road trip.  You may be able to find+afford stuff that you'll need help putting in your car (and would cost a small fortune to ship).  Getting to see+touch+hear the equipment before you pay out is a huge luxury for the buyer, and you escape the inevitable damage of shipping heavy items.
 
Hindsight has taught many of us that if we shot higher early on, then we would have saved money in the long run.  Spoil yourself on speakers amps and hopefully you won't need to put them in the mail for a very long time.  These items have a signatures that will dictate which wires and tubes (and preamp) you choose that can either mask or accentuate that signature.
 
Leveraging the used market you can surpass mid-fi for $5k, but I think most people easily spend twice taking losses on the buy/sell hamster wheel.  But if there was no journey then this would hardly be a hobby.
 
Sep 24, 2015 at 10:52 AM Post #2,556 of 3,700
Thanks! I share your love for bargain hunting, hence a willingness to take the plunge and risk faulty shipments from China :) Here in the UK the craigslist equivalent is Gumtree, and fleabay is pretty active too.
 
However I am after something that I can use both for listening and music production. I.e. a flat response down to about 35hz but also 'dynamic' and 'musical'. I have already realised that buying cheap = expensive in the long term so have reserved £3-4k for amp + speakers. On the HiFi side of the border, to my knowledge something like the B&W diamond series would suffice. I've kept an eye out for second hand within my budget but it seems a bit of a stretch. Other option could be the KII Three, but that's too expensive new & you won;t see them second hand as they;re not even released yet.
 
On the studio monitor side, I have been demo'ing a few models lately and really like the sound of the amphion two15s and genelec 8351A. I'd build my own anaview d class amp if I end up with the former; the latter has everything on board - but I'd need a damn attractive discount on the latter from the retailer to warrant the purchase. I do really like the genelec GLM2.0 room adjustment software.. Room acoustics are definitely under-appreciated in HiFi land but make out at least half the perceived SQ I believe.
 
Sep 24, 2015 at 3:18 PM Post #2,557 of 3,700
nel1s said:
  risk faulty shipments from China
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I don't worry about shipping damages with the small items I'm ordering from China.  Another huge plus to sourcing used stuff locally is you'll discover where the closest audiophiles live.  Ideally you'll learn from other people's successes+mistakes and possibly borrow/loan equipment.
 
It's funny how geography has such a strong influence on our systems.  The only components we'll have in common is our chi-fi.
 
My friend had the small B&W diamond monitors matched with a small REL stub on McIntosh gear.  So impressive -- it remains the best sound I've ever heard from B&Ws.  The last couple times I heard the 802s I didn't like the treble at all.  Sounded like their front end could have benefited from this thread.  After selling the b&w monitors, he bought+sold Wilson Sofias, then got both martin logan summits and maggie 3.7i's.  I hope retirement goes the same for me!
 
Room acoustics yes!  Every speaker I've measured in my loft shows the same hump and suck-out, so clearly it's the room.  I'm completely on board with using the Dirac Live software, but to get the most out of it I have to maximize the software gain while constantly monitor the software's clipping indicator.  Better recordings have more headroom that make way for stronger correction in the suckouts.  Makes me feel like a DJ and gives me something to do while listening.
 
For a backup amp I paid about $250 for a 200wpc AudioSource Amp7, which uses the tripath switching chip.  I was feeling good about it, and then my friend got some Onkyo integrated amp for under $200 that totally out classed the AudioSource.  Both units are about 10yr old.
 
Sep 25, 2015 at 1:32 AM Post #2,558 of 3,700
nel1s said:
Thanks! I share your love for bargain hunting, hence a willingness to take the plunge and risk faulty shipments from China :) Here in the UK the craigslist equivalent is Gumtree, and fleabay is pretty active too.

However I am after something that I can use both for listening and music production. I.e. a flat response down to about 35hz but also 'dynamic' and 'musical'. I have already realised that buying cheap = expensive in the long term so have reserved £3-4k for amp + speakers. On the HiFi side of the border, to my knowledge something like the B&W diamond series would suffice. I've kept an eye out for second hand within my budget but it seems a bit of a stretch. Other option could be the KII Three, but that's too expensive new & you won;t see them second hand as they;re not even released yet.

On the studio monitor side, I have been demo'ing a few models lately and really like the sound of the amphion two15s and genelec 8351A. I'd build my own anaview d class amp if I end up with the former; the latter has everything on board - but I'd need a damn attractive discount on the latter from the retailer to warrant the purchase. I do really like the genelec GLM2.0 room adjustment software.. Room acoustics are definitely under-appreciated in HiFi land but make out at least half the perceived SQ I believe.
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Check out KEF and NAIM. Class D :rolleyes:
 
Sep 25, 2015 at 12:37 PM Post #2,559 of 3,700
I've looked at KEF and NAIM but there's nothing obvious I'd like to source second hand by these brands. Haven't researched that much though.
 
My Gustard X12 order didn't get through for some reason so I've now decided to cancel that purchase altogether. Any recommendations for a DAC that I could get instead and combines well with the Breeze U8? Maybe something based on the AK4490 chip? Aiming to be cost efficient, of course... :)
 
Sep 25, 2015 at 1:58 PM Post #2,560 of 3,700
nel1s said:
  My Gustard X12 order didn't get through for some reason so I've now decided to cancel that purchase altogether. Any recommendations for a DAC that I could get instead and combines well with the Breeze U8? Maybe something based on the AK4490 chip? Aiming to be cost efficient, of course... :)
Click to expand...

If the $1250 Schiit Gungir 2 Multibit had an AES or I2S input then I'd probably roll the dice on that.  It's unfortunate because I wanted Schiit to be my first r2r dac.
 
I pre-ordered my X20U on 8-25 and it was put in the pail on 9-17.  Today my DHL tracking number still doesn't work.  When my seller (forexman) asked DHL for an ETA they said the 30th.  5 weeks is crazy long but I'm happy that my seller is forthcoming and responsive.
 
Perhaps a bigger issue is going on, like the fires out west or the hidden war with China.  I can see my country deliberately causing the delay to slow the exodus of our currency.  The ebay business model certainly doesn't employ as many Americans as the dept store model.
 
Sep 27, 2015 at 5:23 AM Post #2,561 of 3,700
wynnytsky said:
If the $1250 Schiit Gungir 2 Multibit had an AES or I2S input then I'd probably roll the dice on that.  It's unfortunate because I wanted Schiit to be my first r2r dac.
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That schiit doesnt even have AES input ?!?!
I find that particularly lame for a $1250 DAC. And I'm guessing the USB input isnt exactly tip-top either. Thats a lot of dough for such a limited box whos best strenghts seem to be a buzzword (r2r) and a few slogans (usa made, lalala).
 
Sep 27, 2015 at 9:18 AM Post #2,562 of 3,700
prot said:
Thats a lot of dough for such a limited box whos best strenghts seem to be a buzzword (r2r) and a few slogans (usa made, lalala).
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I think schiit established themselves selling affordable models like the bifrost and gungir 1.  When they introduced multibit I think they made a business decision to price their product based on the competition that they are matching or exceeding, which makes sense -- works for real estate.  But doing so w/o adding those inputs seems a little premature or greedy.  And "made in the usa" sadly means "overpaid in the usa".  Your money will always go further when buying from true capitalist countries.
 
Oct 8, 2015 at 5:21 PM Post #2,564 of 3,700
rb2013 said:
The Hydra Z with Crystek clocks has a BNC clock output to master a DAC, if it has BNC clock input.

Hope that helps!
biggrin.gif
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I found a dealer selling new Hydra-Zs at a great price.  There is a 3 week wait though.  Hopefully by the end of the month I'll be posting my personal account about how it bests the PUC2.
 
BTW
Last week I was experimenting with nuetrix XLR<=>coax adapters.  Using the same coax cable we ranked the quality between a U12 to X12 from best to worst:
1. AES => AES (2 adapters)
2. coax => AES
3. AES => coax
4. coax => coax (no adapters)
 
What was surprising to us was that the perceived appeal/impact was greater with AES on the receiving end of the signal.
So the difference between #1 and #2 was small, but the difference between #2 and #3 was large
 
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