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iPhone 6 & 6 Plus Audio Quality
Jul 13, 2015 at 11:03 PM Post #1,576 of 1,973
shultzee said:
 
I have to agree with this.  Comparing music straight out of the iPhone 6 hp jack vs. using a CEntrance dac/ amp I can't honestly say which sounds better.  That goes for both Hi-Fi M8 and the mini 8.  Both ways sound very good albeit slightly different sound signatures.
Click to expand...

 
I also did not notice any sound signature differences (SE846 + SCS + modded black nozzle inserts + Silver Litz and Beat Audio Silver Sonic MKV cables) between my then iPhone 5 (Spotify and Neutron Music Player) and when I used the CEntrance HiFi-M8.
 
Jul 14, 2015 at 5:38 AM Post #1,577 of 1,973
Complicated/complex amps I have doubts. With an efficient HP for the iPhone, Hence you don't need gain, IMO a very simple amp is sufficient, like the FiiO E6. You only would like to take advantage of the full bits (max volume on iPhone) and then control volume kn the amp/E6. Basically you're just adding a volume pot.

Is there an amp like this that has analog volume control? E6 is I believe digital, not analog.
 
Jul 14, 2015 at 7:58 AM Post #1,578 of 1,973
Tried a few DACs at a headphones shop with FLAC files in Onkyo app and also streaming Tidal Hi-fi.

The very minimal difference in sound couldn't warrant the purchase of an external DAC. Happily using a Westone UM-Pro 50 directly from the headphones out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Jul 14, 2015 at 5:57 PM Post #1,579 of 1,973
smaragd said:
Tried a few DACs at a headphones shop with FLAC files in Onkyo app and also streaming Tidal Hi-fi.

The very minimal difference in sound couldn't warrant the purchase of an external DAC. Happily using a Westone UM-Pro 50 directly from the headphones out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Kudos for not convincing yourself that you needed a new toy!
 
Jul 14, 2015 at 8:05 PM Post #1,580 of 1,973
smaragd said:
Tried a few DACs at a headphones shop with FLAC files in Onkyo app and also streaming Tidal Hi-fi.

The very minimal difference in sound couldn't warrant the purchase of an external DAC. Happily using a Westone UM-Pro 50 directly from the headphones out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


That UM Pro 50 sounds pretty dang good out of the iPhone I must agree :)
 
Jul 15, 2015 at 3:56 AM Post #1,581 of 1,973
And I do like the simplicity of just having to carry the iPhone and my Westones without having to add extra gear and cables.
Anyone else having experience with Tidal Hifi or Qobuz?
 
Jul 15, 2015 at 6:48 AM Post #1,582 of 1,973
smaragd said:
  And I do like the simplicity of just having to carry the iPhone and my Westones without having to add extra gear and cables.
Anyone else having experience with Tidal Hifi or Qobuz?
Click to expand...

 
Tidal HiFi - Lossless is great, and since the volume output is higher than Spotify, I can listen to it via my HE1000 (production version).  In a quiet environment I even have to turn down the volume of my iPhone 6! Sounds amazing for only the iPhone 6's output.
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 3:08 PM Post #1,583 of 1,973
mrmonday said:
  I have only read bits and pieces of this thread, is there consensus as to whether bypassing the internal amp of the iPhone 6 improves SQ? I have the Fiio E12A ordered for use with the Soundmagic HP150 and Dunu DN-1000. I already have an apple lightning to 30 pin adapter, I am wondering if I should get a LOD or if I should just use the headphone jack on the iPhone 6 and double amp?
Click to expand...


Well, it totally depends on the headphones. But, IME, amping a really good headphone out doesn't improve SQ. Obviously this changes if you want to power something like the K1000 or HE-6, then yes, an amp is needed, and 1V RMS no matter how good it is wouldn't give it sufficient volume.
 
Now, if i'm not mistaken, the headphone out of any analog device is an 'Line Out', ever. Line Outs are often used in equipment with built-in amps that provide more than the standard 2 Vrms, so they include a dedicated 'Line Out' with fixed (Often 2 Vrms) voltage to use it as a source.
You can use the iPhone 6 headphone out (Which has incredible sound quality IME) as a 'line out' without any fix, just using it as a source with a 3.5 to RCA or 3.5 to 3.5 connector to a Desktop or Portable Amp, and the SQ will be as good if not better than using a separate DAC. Try using your headphones with the Headphone Out of the iPhone 6 directly, and if you don't have volume problems, then you're set. If you need an amp, then put the iPhone 6 at max volume which turns the gain to 1 Vrms and connect to the Line In of the portable/desktop amp.
 
Again, all of this is my opinion, and I can be extremely wrong. Magic says that DAC's improve sound, IME measurements tells the truth, and the iPhone 6 is among the best digital audio source ever created. YMMV IMHO IME Sh!tstorm-magician-audiophiles ahoy.
 
My recommendation: Use the iPhone 6 headphone out as a source first, without any amp. Listen to your headphones with songs you know and love, and has good mastering. Then connect the iPhone 6 to the FiiO E12A Line-In with a 3.5 to 3.5 connector, and compare it to the iPhone 6 headphone out unamped. If you don't hear a difference consider yourself lucky. If you hear a difference, then it's all good, and consider a 'better' DAC than that of the iPhone 6 (Which is impossible according to Science). You can by-pass the internal DAC of the iPhone 6 with a Camera Connection Kit for iPad which connects to the Lightning and then to the USB input of the DAC, but I don't recommend doing it when the iPhone 6's DAC is just nearly perfect without any bias, but just in case you want to experiment some magic with Audiophile DAC's you can do it.
 
And no, an already fixed Headphone Out like the iPhone 6's can act as a Line Out, that's a fact. It's not ''double-amping'', that's just stupid. If it is ''double-amping'', then how a 2 Vrms LINE OUT of Audiophile DAC's is not ''double-amping'' having 2 times more voltage? Audiophiles can be a fun species.
 
PD: I don't think that amp will improve the SQ of any device, unless it's really ****ty, which is not the case of the iPhone 6. But try it just in case, and be careful with the placebo effect.
 
Well, anyway, hope it helps you. :)
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 5:05 PM Post #1,584 of 1,973
There is a lot of good sense in ElMacardo's post. IMO. FWIW I can add that I have used the Lightning LO with the adaptor which includes a DAC (for £35!) I can detect no SQ difference between that and the HO.
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 11:28 PM Post #1,585 of 1,973
elmarcado said:
Well, it totally depends on the headphones. But, IME, amping a really good headphone out doesn't improve SQ. Obviously this changes if you want to power something like the K1000 or HE-6, then yes, an amp is needed, and 1V RMS no matter how good it is wouldn't give it sufficient volume.

Now, if i'm not mistaken, the headphone out of any analog device is an 'Line Out', ever. Line Outs are often used in equipment with built-in amps that provide more than the standard 2 Vrms, so they include a dedicated 'Line Out' with fixed (Often 2 Vrms) voltage to use it as a source.
You can use the iPhone 6 headphone out (Which has incredible sound quality IME) as a 'line out' without any fix, just using it as a source with a 3.5 to RCA or 3.5 to 3.5 connector to a Desktop or Portable Amp, and the SQ will be as good if not better than using a separate DAC. Try using your headphones with the Headphone Out of the iPhone 6 directly, and if you don't have volume problems, then you're set. If you need an amp, then put the iPhone 6 at max volume which turns the gain to 1 Vrms and connect to the Line In of the portable/desktop amp.

Again, all of this is my opinion, and I can be extremely wrong. Magic says that DAC's improve sound, IME measurements tells the truth, and the iPhone 6 is among the best digital audio source ever created. YMMV IMHO IME Sh!tstorm-magician-audiophiles ahoy.

My recommendation: Use the iPhone 6 headphone out as a source first, without any amp. Listen to your headphones with songs you know and love, and has good mastering. Then connect the iPhone 6 to the FiiO E12A Line-In with a 3.5 to 3.5 connector, and compare it to the iPhone 6 headphone out unamped. If you don't hear a difference consider yourself lucky. If you hear a difference, then it's all good, and consider a 'better' DAC than that of the iPhone 6 (Which is impossible according to Science). You can by-pass the internal DAC of the iPhone 6 with a Camera Connection Kit for iPad which connects to the Lightning and then to the USB input of the DAC, but I don't recommend doing it when the iPhone 6's DAC is just nearly perfect without any bias, but just in case you want to experiment some magic with Audiophile DAC's you can do it.

And no, an already fixed Headphone Out like the iPhone 6's can act as a Line Out, that's a fact. It's not ''double-amping'', that's just stupid. If it is ''double-amping'', then how a 2 Vrms LINE OUT of Audiophile DAC's is not ''double-amping'' having 2 times more voltage? Audiophiles can be a fun species.

PD: I don't think that amp will improve the SQ of any device, unless it's really ****ty, which is not the case of the iPhone 6. But try it just in case, and be careful with the placebo effect.

Well, anyway, hope it helps you. :)
Click to expand...

+1. The only instance where I hear an improvement on the iPhone 6+ is when I max out its volume (yeah that's not double amping, just converting it into a buffer, yes?) and use an external amp without any gain, therefore using the external amp just as a volume pot.

Any changes in SQ or "perceived improvement" in SQ is IMHO a tweak, not an improvement. I perceive a substantial improvement in SQ when I use the iFi nano iDSD while using its Minimum Phase digital filter. I suspect its mainly the use of full bits on the iPhone, with the excellent analog volume pot, DAC and digital filter on the iFi nano iDSD as contributory factors; but IMHO its a "tweak", the sound if which I like very much.
 
Jul 17, 2015 at 11:28 PM Post #1,586 of 1,973
And the best app IMHO for the iPhone 6+ is the Onkyo HF Player. Sound is very clean but detailed.
 
Jul 20, 2015 at 5:23 AM Post #1,590 of 1,973
elmarcado said:
 
Well, it totally depends on the headphones. But, IME, amping a really good headphone out doesn't improve SQ. Obviously this changes if you want to power something like the K1000 or HE-6, then yes, an amp is needed, and 1V RMS no matter how good it is wouldn't give it sufficient volume.
 
Now, if i'm not mistaken, the headphone out of any analog device is an 'Line Out', ever. Line Outs are often used in equipment with built-in amps that provide more than the standard 2 Vrms, so they include a dedicated 'Line Out' with fixed (Often 2 Vrms) voltage to use it as a source.
You can use the iPhone 6 headphone out (Which has incredible sound quality IME) as a 'line out' without any fix, just using it as a source with a 3.5 to RCA or 3.5 to 3.5 connector to a Desktop or Portable Amp, and the SQ will be as good if not better than using a separate DAC. Try using your headphones with the Headphone Out of the iPhone 6 directly, and if you don't have volume problems, then you're set. If you need an amp, then put the iPhone 6 at max volume which turns the gain to 1 Vrms and connect to the Line In of the portable/desktop amp.
 
Again, all of this is my opinion, and I can be extremely wrong. Magic says that DAC's improve sound, IME measurements tells the truth, and the iPhone 6 is among the best digital audio source ever created. YMMV IMHO IME Sh!tstorm-magician-audiophiles ahoy.
 
My recommendation: Use the iPhone 6 headphone out as a source first, without any amp. Listen to your headphones with songs you know and love, and has good mastering. Then connect the iPhone 6 to the FiiO E12A Line-In with a 3.5 to 3.5 connector, and compare it to the iPhone 6 headphone out unamped. If you don't hear a difference consider yourself lucky. If you hear a difference, then it's all good, and consider a 'better' DAC than that of the iPhone 6 (Which is impossible according to Science). You can by-pass the internal DAC of the iPhone 6 with a Camera Connection Kit for iPad which connects to the Lightning and then to the USB input of the DAC, but I don't recommend doing it when the iPhone 6's DAC is just nearly perfect without any bias, but just in case you want to experiment some magic with Audiophile DAC's you can do it.
 
And no, an already fixed Headphone Out like the iPhone 6's can act as a Line Out, that's a fact. It's not ''double-amping'', that's just stupid. If it is ''double-amping'', then how a 2 Vrms LINE OUT of Audiophile DAC's is not ''double-amping'' having 2 times more voltage? Audiophiles can be a fun species.
 
PD: I don't think that amp will improve the SQ of any device, unless it's really ****ty, which is not the case of the iPhone 6. But try it just in case, and be careful with the placebo effect.
 
Well, anyway, hope it helps you. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for giving such a detailed response. You have convinced me that I don't need an external DAC. However, I find it interesting that you suggest not using an amp. Everyone in the HP150 thread says that it really shines with an amp. My understanding is that using an amp improves SQ by giving the headphone or IEM more headroom thus reducing risk of clipping and a shallow dynamic range.
 
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