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iFi iDSD Micro DSD512 / PCM768 DAC and Headphone Amp. Impressions, Reviews and Comments.
Jan 13, 2017 at 12:21 PM Post #7,351 of 9,047
joseph lin said:
  Ok, I tried to upgrade to the newest firmware 5.2b and now it charges and takes coaxial input. Sorry for all the troubles.
Click to expand...

OH yea that could've been it, maybe they fixed something in 5.2b while they were fixing the weird sleep thing. I installed 5.2b even before I fully unboxed the idsd (having bought enough nexus phones I've gotten into that habit with my electronics now :) )
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 12:28 PM Post #7,352 of 9,047
tjphysicist said:
 
joseph lin said:
  Ok, I tried to upgrade to the newest firmware 5.2b and now it charges and takes coaxial input. Sorry for all the troubles.
Click to expand...

OH yea that could've been it, maybe they fixed something in 5.2b while they were fixing the weird sleep thing. I installed 5.2b even before I fully unboxed the idsd (having bought enough nexus phones I've gotten into that habit with my electronics now :) )
Click to expand...


Sorry for questioning you. I apologize. I have been using iDSD micro on battery for a very long time while using coaxial as input. Never thought that it will be able to charge and play at the same time. Now it is much more useful. Thank you for your patience.
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 3:28 PM Post #7,353 of 9,047
tjphysicist said:
  WEIRD! maybe i'm tripping out, idk. Oh well. But then there's this post:
 
Just tested it (again, there's no REAL way to tell if the battery is being used or not other than to just keep it running for a bit to see if battery is drained) and it works. @iFi audio  can you confirm this?
Click to expand...

 
Let's address this in even more thorough way, shall we?
 
TL;DR
 
If you want to keep your iDSD micro on all the time, you can still use the battery mode and normally not worry about the battery state. This is best if you usually use it to play music for a few hours at a time and then shut the music source off to allow the iDSD micro to top up its cells' charge. Using a USB port that is BC1.2 compliant and can deliver 1.5A of current is strongly recommended and essential if using Turbo mode.
 
If you want 100% availability and 24/7 operation while never worrying about the battery state or which amplifier setting is engaged, power your iDSD micro from a BC1.2 compliant USB port and make sure power is available 24/7.
 
If you want to have maximum play time "on the go" make sure to TURN OFF the iDSD micro when charging.  If you don't need maximum playtime, make sure to TURN ON  the iDSD micro when charging. and to make sure that your smartphone battery does not get drained when music stops, flash Firmware 5.2B.
 
Long Version
 
iDSD micro has a fairly sophisticated charging system, but in the best Apple style, rather than festooning the device with a million gauges and LED's, we kept it as minimal as possible (we felt there where enough switches etc. as is).
 
If the iDSD micro is turned on BEFORE being connected to a USB source (or just a USB charger) it is in "Battery Mode" until turned off next time.
 
If the  iDSD micro is turned on AFTER being connected to a USB source (or just a USB charger) it is in "USB Mode" until turned off next time.
 
Now unless Firmware 5.XB is used, the iDSD micro will actually re-charge in either mode, unless it detects a "weak power source" which is assumed to be a smart phone. Equally, in either mode the iDSD micro may draw on the battery if needed. 
 
So it might be better to call the modes "Battery Power Priority" and "USB Power Priority".
 
In battery mode, if music is playing via USB or SPDIF power is drawn ONLY from the battery, the USB power connection, if present is shut off. 
 
However, if no music is playing on any input for 3 minutes, the iDSD micro will shut down the whole analogue and amplifier circuitry to conserve power (as these draw the most). And if it has detected a "strong" (500mA or greater) charge capable source it will recharge it's battery while no music is played. 
 
The re-charge is set to not fill the battery up to 100% capacity as this would cause cells to wear out quickly, instead charge is capped at 75%, which means battery life in this case is equal to shelf life.
 
Powersave mode is indicated by a blinking green LED, and if the iDSD micro is in powersave + recharge mode, it with show a blue LED.
 
This means as long as 'eco' mode is used and you do not play music for more than 8 hours without interruption (and your computer settings allow the iDSD micro to go to sleep and charge), the iDSD micro may be operated in battery indefinitely, if it remains connected and turned on, because it will recharge automagically whenever there is no music playback for any length of time.
 
In USB mode the iDSD micro will first and foremost apply USB power to keep internal systems 'alive'. If any power from the USB is "left over" after operating internals, it will be used to charge the battery. 
 
If the power available from USB is insufficient, the iDSD micro will automatically draw the difference from the battery, which acts in effect as a booster pack. 
 
If no music is played on any input for 15 minutes, the iDSD micro will shut down the whole analogue and amplifier circuitry to conserve power (it draws the most). Then more power is available to top up the battery.
 
Again, the re-charge is set to not charge the battery to 100% capacity as this would cause the cells to wear out quickly. Instead charge is capped at 75%, which means battery life in this case is equal to shelf life.
 
The power from a standard USB port is sufficient for operation of the iDSD micro ONLY in 'eco' mode, using a standard USB port and USB mode with normal/turbo may slowly drain the battery even in USB mode, unless the iDSD micro is allowed to enter powersave frequently enough to allow it to keep the cells topped up.
 
This is because the iDSD micro is USB standard compliant, so it will never draw more than 500mA, unless the USB port it is attached to includes USB standard BC1.2 signaling, in which case the iDSD micro will draw the current it needs up to a maximum of 1.5A which is enough for both 'turbo' mode operation and charging a flat battery to 80% in under 12 hours. 
 
The iUSB nano & micro implement BC1.2 and will supply the iDSD micro with all the power it needs at a quality that rivals battery operation. 
 
Many inexpensive USB hubs also implement BC1.2 and can supply the iDSD micro with the power needed, though the results will not be as good as the iUSB.
 
Further, if the iDSD micro is switched off when charging, it will fill the battery to 100% capacity. This will maximize playback time in portable use, but as the battery is now cycled past 75% it's lifespan will be shortened compared to the lower charge. 
 
So if you do not need maximum battery charge, keep your iDSD micro on while charging to be easier on cells.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
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Jan 13, 2017 at 4:55 PM Post #7,354 of 9,047
Silly question that I probably already know the answer to but I need reassurance.
 
If I purchase a Sony Walkman and connect it via USB to my Micro IDSD, Will I get the same sound quality as when I do the same with my MacBook, correct?
 
I ask because I feel listening to music on the laptop offers too many distractions. 
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM Post #7,355 of 9,047
bykhoff said:
  Silly question that I probably already know the answer to but I need reassurance.
 
If I purchase a Sony Walkman and connect it via USB to my Micro IDSD, Will I get the same sound quality as when I do the same with my MacBook, correct?
 
I ask because I feel listening to music on the laptop offers too many distractions. 
Click to expand...


I like to know the same thing, 
but also like to know what player do you use in you MacBook to output to the micro idsd.
I used foobar2000 in the past but on a windows 10 tablet, is that the one you would recommend?
thanks.
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 6:32 PM Post #7,356 of 9,047
pablosrt8 said:
 
I like to know the same thing, 
but also like to know what player do you use in you MacBook to output to the micro idsd.
I used foobar2000 in the past but on a windows 10 tablet, is that the one you would recommend?
thanks.
Click to expand...

I'm a recent macbook convert (i.e. moved to macbook recently for work) and came to the same question. First off, and unfortunately, foobar does not exist for a mac (afaik). 
 
  • Vox is something I've used. The free version is quite simple, plays FLACs (and DSD too i think) no library management and so on, just a linear playlist(s). 
  • Audirvana is another (paid) option. It can pretty much handle anything including DSD512, if you're crazy like that (
    darthsmile.gif
    ). I ended up getting it for $79 (do note, they're coming out with v3 and there's a threshold by which you have to buy v2 to get v3 upgrade free). It has library management etc, sound a BIT better/cleaner (i think, YMMV) and best of all comes with 90 days of tidal free (works best if you've never had a tidal account before). Audirvana support tidal form within the app. Tidal is streaming service like apple music or spotify but their premium "$20" version lets you stream 44.1/16 "redbook CD" FLACs, as well as MQA (support upcoming in audirvana, MQA "master quality" is a 96/24 file "folded into" a 44.1/16 FLAC stream, so as to make it easier for streaming). Their library is pretty good so I went for it anyways. 
    1. [Note: I'm no expert on computer audio, this is just what i've gathered] Audirvana is capable of "direct mode" which skips coreaudio stuff i.e. mac's audio driver layer or whatver (the other option is "integer mode" which is directly feeds bit perfect into DAC afaik but goes through core audio). Direct mode is supposed to be cleaner as there is one less (or rather a much simpler) processing/data layer between song and DAC. 10.12 breaks direct mode btw, so I hope you haven't upgraded.
    2. I've been using in integer mode, sounds good enough to me tbh. I would LIKE direct mode, though but that's only because I'm OCD like that.
 
Those are the two I know about. There are a couple more, but on this forum audirvana seems very popular. 
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 6:56 PM Post #7,358 of 9,047
bykhoff said:
I use Audirvana, as well.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the quick answer!
I just did a google search and a lot of people like HQPlayer.
But just found out it like $140!
I had foobar2000 on windows and it just worked...
I'm going to have to decide soon... but $140 is a lot.
Wonder if I won't be able to tell the difference between
Audirvana and HQPlayer.
I just got back in the hobby.
My Fostex TH900MK2 and ifi Micro idsd Black just arrived.
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 7:00 PM Post #7,359 of 9,047
pablosrt8 said:
Thank you for the quick answer!
I just did a google search and a lot of people like HQPlayer.
But just found out it like $140!
I had foobar2000 on windows and it just worked...
I'm going to have to decide soon... but $140 is a lot.
Wonder if I won't be able to tell the difference between
Audirvana and HQPlayer.
I just got back in the hobby.
My Fostex TH900MK2 and ifi Micro idsd Black just arrived.
Click to expand...

As I said, audirvana gives you 3 months of tidal streaming for free ($20 * 3 months) which basically made the decision for me.
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 7:22 PM Post #7,361 of 9,047
pablosrt8 said:
Oh! I missed that! Thanks!
I was thinking at $140 I rather put it towards a dedicated dap, the Pioneer xdp-100r is 399 now... I don't want to fill up my iphone with music, it's only 64gb.
Click to expand...

Bit OT but: If you're not getting streaming, may I suggest something cheaper? I'm using dx80. The FIIO ones (x3-ii, x5) are pretty popular as well, all under cheaper than xdp-100r.
 
 
 
Note: I asume you want to do what I'm doing, which is hook it up to use idsd as your DAC. In which case, I like dx80 the best for that, it has a nice 3.5mm 2 pole (TS/mono) coaxial out, comes with a 3.5mm to coaxial digital cable AND has optical mini out in the same port (I like mini optical). THe fiio ones have 3.5mm coaxial as well, but I liked the dx80 better for having optical.
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 7:44 PM Post #7,362 of 9,047
tjphysicist said:
Bit OT but: If you're not getting streaming, may I suggest something cheaper? I'm using dx80. The FIIO ones (x3-ii, x5) are pretty popular as well, all under cheaper than xdp-100r.



Note: I asume you want to do what I'm doing, which is hook it up to use idsd as your DAC. In which case, I like dx80 the best for that, it has a nice 3.5mm 2 pole (TS/mono) coaxial out, comes with a 3.5mm to coaxial digital cable AND has optical mini out in the same port (I like mini optical). THe fiio ones have 3.5mm coaxial as well, but I liked the dx80 better for having optical.
Click to expand...


Yes! I want just a transport, the more I read the harder it gets!
Seems that if the ifi has a better clock then you use USB , if the dap has a better clock then I would use coax.
I'm sure I won't notice any difference, I'm new at this (again)
I was looking at the Sony a17 because it looks like it has a long lasting battery and I can use a USB dongle so the ifi becomes the dac/amp.
Would you still recommend the one you have?
And yea, I don't think I want a music service...
thank you again!
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 8:16 PM Post #7,363 of 9,047
pablosrt8 said:
Yes! I want just a transport, the more I read the harder it gets!
Seems that if the ifi has a better clock then you use USB , if the dap has a better clock then I would use coax.
I'm sure I won't notice any difference, I'm new at this (again)
I was looking at the Sony a17 because it looks like it has a long lasting battery and I can use a USB dongle so the ifi becomes the dac/amp.
Would you still recommend the one you have?
And yea, I don't think I want a music service...
thank you again!
Click to expand...

I'm new too :). Wholeheartedly. You can even get a nice 1/8" to RCA digital analogue cable from bluejeanscable OR use the included one (it's a bit short for me). Yet another option for you is 
 
The other options are Fiio X5, X3 ii, shanling M1 (VERY cheap) I haven't used them, but I'm happy enough with DX80. All three are popular enough here that I think they should at least be good enough. There a few other slightly cheaper chinese make ones that I can't remember as well (mostly with at least 3.5mm coaxial and one sdcard slot).
  1. dx80: sdcard*2, mono 3.5mm for coaxial AND mini optical out. $299ish
  2. x5 iii: sdcard*2, (wierd) 3.5mm coaxial, $299 ish
  3. x3 ii: quite cheap. same (weird) 3.5mm coaxial. You need a cable that goes from RCA coaxial and has a 3.5mm with 3 rings on it instead of 1 (2 rings=stereo, your regular headphones for example). Fiio offers a cable for pretty cheap on amazon (L21 i think). $169ish
  4. shanling: tiny as hell. the size of one of those small ipod shuffles. USB C, no coaxial iirc (in order to use a DAC you need to connect via USB C to USB female cable). cheap too, $129 ish
As far as I can remember, those are the cheap DAPs that let you use a DAC with them (via digital out).
 
Jan 13, 2017 at 8:39 PM Post #7,364 of 9,047
tjphysicist said:
  I'm new too :). Wholeheartedly. You can even get a nice 1/8" to RCA digital analogue cable from bluejeanscable OR use the included one (it's a bit short for me). Yet another option for you is 
 
The other options are Fiio X5, X3 ii, shanling M1 (VERY cheap) I haven't used them, but I'm happy enough with DX80. All three are popular enough here that I think they should at least be good enough. There a few other slightly cheaper chinese make ones that I can't remember as well (mostly with at least 3.5mm coaxial and one sdcard slot).
  1. dx80: sdcard*2, mono 3.5mm for coaxial AND mini optical out. $299ish
  2. x5 iii: sdcard*2, (wierd) 3.5mm coaxial, $299 ish
  3. x3 ii: quite cheap. same (weird) 3.5mm coaxial. You need a cable that goes from RCA coaxial and has a 3.5mm with 3 rings on it instead of 1 (2 rings=stereo, your regular headphones for example). Fiio offers a cable for pretty cheap on amazon (L21 i think). $169ish
  4. shanling: tiny as hell. the size of one of those small ipod shuffles. USB C, no coaxial iirc (in order to use a DAC you need to connect via USB C to USB female cable). cheap too, $129 ish
As far as I can remember, those are the cheap DAPs that let you use a DAC with them (via digital out).
Click to expand...

Oh yea, just saw this https://www.massdrop.com/buy/cayin-n5-digital-audio-player
 
Cayin N5: dual sdcard, 3.5mm coaxial output to your DAC..DAMN this may just be as good or better than dx80. AND it comes with a 3.5mm to coaxial female cable, so you can use your coaxial RCA cable that you have lying around.
 
Jan 14, 2017 at 12:16 AM Post #7,365 of 9,047
ifi audio said:
   
Let's address this in even more thorough way, shall we?
 
TL;DR
 
If you want to keep your iDSD micro on all the time, you can still use the battery mode and normally not worry about the battery state. This is best if you usually use it to play music for a few hours at a time and then shut the music source off to allow the iDSD micro to top up its cells' charge. Using a USB port that is BC1.2 compliant and can deliver 1.5A of current is strongly recommended and essential if using Turbo mode.
 
If you want 100% availability and 24/7 operation while never worrying about the battery state or which amplifier setting is engaged, power your iDSD micro from a BC1.2 compliant USB port and make sure power is available 24/7.
 
If you want to have maximum play time "on the go" make sure to TURN OFF the iDSD micro when charging.  If you don't need maximum playtime, make sure to TURN ON  the iDSD micro when charging. and to make sure that your smartphone battery does not get drained when music stops, flash Firmware 5.2B.
 
Long Version
 
iDSD micro has a fairly sophisticated charging system, but in the best Apple style, rather than festooning the device with a million gauges and LED's, we kept it as minimal as possible (we felt there where enough switches etc. as is).
 
If the iDSD micro is turned on BEFORE being connected to a USB source (or just a USB charger) it is in "Battery Mode" until turned off next time.
 
If the  iDSD micro is turned on AFTER being connected to a USB source (or just a USB charger) it is in "USB Mode" until turned off next time.
 
Now unless Firmware 5.XB is used, the iDSD micro will actually re-charge in either mode, unless it detects a "weak power source" which is assumed to be a smart phone. Equally, in either mode the iDSD micro may draw on the battery if needed. 
 
So it might be better to call the modes "Battery Power Priority" and "USB Power Priority".
 
In battery mode, if music is playing via USB or SPDIF power is drawn ONLY from the battery, the USB power connection, if present is shut off. 
 
However, if no music is playing on any input for 3 minutes, the iDSD micro will shut down the whole analogue and amplifier circuitry to conserve power (as these draw the most). And if it has detected a "strong" (500mA or greater) charge capable source it will recharge it's battery while no music is played. 
 
The re-charge is set to not fill the battery up to 100% capacity as this would cause cells to wear out quickly, instead charge is capped at 75%, which means battery life in this case is equal to shelf life.
 
Powersave mode is indicated by a blinking green LED, and if the iDSD micro is in powersave + recharge mode, it with show a blue LED.
 
This means as long as 'eco' mode is used and you do not play music for more than 8 hours without interruption (and your computer settings allow the iDSD micro to go to sleep and charge), the iDSD micro may be operated in battery indefinitely, if it remains connected and turned on, because it will recharge automagically whenever there is no music playback for any length of time.
 
In USB mode the iDSD micro will first and foremost apply USB power to keep internal systems 'alive'. If any power from the USB is "left over" after operating internals, it will be used to charge the battery. 
 
If the power available from USB is insufficient, the iDSD micro will automatically draw the difference from the battery, which acts in effect as a booster pack. 
 
If no music is played on any input for 15 minutes, the iDSD micro will shut down the whole analogue and amplifier circuitry to conserve power (it draws the most). Then more power is available to top up the battery.
 
Again, the re-charge is set to not charge the battery to 100% capacity as this would cause the cells to wear out quickly. Instead charge is capped at 75%, which means battery life in this case is equal to shelf life.
 
The power from a standard USB port is sufficient for operation of the iDSD micro ONLY in 'eco' mode, using a standard USB port and USB mode with normal/turbo may slowly drain the battery even in USB mode, unless the iDSD micro is allowed to enter powersave frequently enough to allow it to keep the cells topped up.
 
This is because the iDSD micro is USB standard compliant, so it will never draw more than 500mA, unless the USB port it is attached to includes USB standard BC1.2 signaling, in which case the iDSD micro will draw the current it needs up to a maximum of 1.5A which is enough for both 'turbo' mode operation and charging a flat battery to 80% in under 12 hours. 
 
The iUSB nano & micro implement BC1.2 and will supply the iDSD micro with all the power it needs at a quality that rivals battery operation. 
 
Many inexpensive USB hubs also implement BC1.2 and can supply the iDSD micro with the power needed, though the results will not be as good as the iUSB.
 
Further, if the iDSD micro is switched off when charging, it will fill the battery to 100% capacity. This will maximize playback time in portable use, but as the battery is now cycled past 75% it's lifespan will be shortened compared to the lower charge. 
 
So if you do not need maximum battery charge, keep your iDSD micro on while charging to be easier on cells.
Click to expand...

Wow thanks a lot for the details on how things work. Very complex and makes a lot of sense the way it works definitely. 
 
A lot of this stuff however may be easier to be incorporated into PD2.0 and USB-C etc (maybe? idk) (e.g. master vs slave negotiation based on who was turned on first is part of how my nexus6p phone works). So here's another question for you guys: do you guys plan on doing PD2.0+USB C for your next iteration of mobile friendly DAC/Amps?
 
Also: this also means that, unlike what I may have thought applying USB while using SPDIF whlie using "battery mode" (i.e.  idsd micro turned on first, then spdif connected THEN usb connected and then start playing) the USB power will not have a chance to "interfere with the music" (apparently that's a thing?). Looks like this is the best setup: no current while music is playing and auto recharge when i stop music.
 
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