well, even if sounds the same as the other two earlier versions, its still pretty damn good !!
Grado Labs NEW e series headphones and loaner program!
- Thread starter Todd
- Start date
well, even if sounds the same as the other two earlier versions, its still pretty damn good !!
SR225e compared with SR225i
I want to thank Todd Green at Todd the Vinyl Junkie (TTVJ) for expanding his Grado e-series loaner program to include SR225e and for loaning me one.
tl;wr lusher, more bass, masked treble, notes are centered, slightly slower, much better soundstage, less grain
I spent a week comparing 225e and, its predecessor, 225i. There is, as John Grado said, “a noticeable difference.” I noticed four main differences:
1. Bass and treble. There’s an increase in the bass quantity. There might not be much actual difference in the treble, but the bass masks the treble, which darkens the sound.
2. Pacing. The notes sound more on-center. A slight loss of speed accompanies that. It gives the new version a somewhat higher-end sound like GS1k. It’s more measured, but slightly less exciting.
3. Space. It has a much better soundstage. Although it’s not large, it’s finally decent.
4. Loudness. I consistently had to turn the volume down using 225e. I am not sure if the model itself is more sensitive or if there’s simply more going on and I needed to turn the volume down to catch all the details.
Grados are quite colored and not so genre-versatile as neutral headphones. What they play well, they play very well. I use my woodied SR80i for specific genres: solo organ, rock / metal, vocals, and chamber / strings.
I purposely used gear that has no special good or bad synergy with Grados, but is equipment that most members are likely to have—or something like it. I used an O2+ODAC and as a portable, an iPod 5.5. I wanted to borrow a small Fiio amp because I know many use them with Grados but my friend was out of town that week. Sorry.
Genre: Organ
Bach’s “Little Fugue” played by E. Power Biggs
225i has a simpler sound. There’s less going on. Consequently, it sounds less congested and cleaner. Although the treble can be piercing, it’s also alive and exciting.
The treble on 225e is somewhat masked. As a result, it sounds a little less exciting. Soundstage width is wider. The centered sound of the notes gives the music an inexorable or steady quality, which makes the organ sound both a little more magisterial but also a little slower.
Bach’s A minor Organ Concerto played by Simon Preston
225i sounds determined and immediate. The treble hits you forcefully, although it can sound chirpy or “MIDI-fied.” Overall, I love the hijinks. Some will find the sound thin and racing: I find it fleet-footed. What bass there is, is immediate and visceral. The treble has less body and is more piercing, but it really gets you.
On 225e, the concerto still sounds very good. The new e-series mix of bass and treble is on display: the more high-end-sounding centeredness and the masking. Because the treble is smoother though still Grado-like, the effect is less visceral but still forceful. The bass increase gives it a more immersive sound, but it’s a little less fleet-footed and slightly mellower. The bass itself is enjoyably thunderous but sometimes a little claustrophobic because of the relative smallness of the soundstage.
Genre: Metal
Metallica . . . And Justice for All (Blackened and Frayed Ends of Sanity)
225i gives you invigorating, sibilant cymbals. The kick drum is fast but really limp. Still, you can feel the music in your gut because the Grado treble picks up the guitar.
On 225e, the cymbals aren’t sibilant. The presentation is both more immersive and more detailed--you can simply hear more. The new bass emphasis makes Metallica sound like Megadeth (which at that time was a more bass-heavy band). The kick drum is still limp, but less so. The lushness actually makes it a little harder to distinguish the two guitarists from each other, and the smoother treble makes the guitar sound less exciting. 225e is mighty impressive, but again I prefer the hijinks of 225i. But in FEOS, 225e’s thickness is ultimately persuasive because it doesn’t give up too much drive.
Megadeth Rust in Peace (Holy Wars . . . The Punishment Due)
On 225i, it’s much easier to pick out the chords in a slamming Dave Mustaine solo because of the thinner overall presentation and the less lush sound. This gives the guitar a more differentiated texture. On 225e, the band sounds bigger and busier in a good way, but the darker tone affects guitar solos: there’s more warmth and lushness but the darkness makes everything mellower.
I was generally concerned about how well 225e would play poorly-mastered Loudness War-era tracks, so I compared the original release of Rust in Peace (1990) with the dreadful 2004 remaster. I concluded that there’s no reason to be concerned because the loudness war sounds equally bad on both Grados. It makes the treble sound worse on the i-series, and the bass sound worse on the e-series.
Genre: Vocal
“Killing Me Softly” sung by Perry Como
225i gives the singer’s voice a bit of note thickness. The background guitar has the necessary twang and plink. On 225e, increased bass adds warmth and body but also makes the presentation a little bit cluttered. On the plus side, the sound is less grainy. The most notable difference is in soundstage: I can feel the proper distance between Perry and me. I also encounter some of that steady inexorable feeling in the guitar instead of bite. The new e-series mix of more bass and masked Grado treble isn’t something I really cotton to. The masked treble gives me a slightly uncomfortable feeling like a woman flashing her thong at me—I want more, damn it!
Handel’s “Where’re You Walk” (from Semele) sung by Andreas Scholl
225i shreds the uppermost range a little; it can’t be attributed to the track itself. There are many grab-you-by-the-heart moments. 225e is better at conveying position and distance, whether near or far. The result is a trade-off. It sounds more life-like but less immediate. There’s none of the shredding in the upper range. Again, the mix is darker and the masking of the treble bugs me. Overall, 225e is more capable and proficient at vocals, but less exciting.
Genre: Strings
Schubert Quartet in A minor, D. 804 “Rosamunde” played by Quartetto Italiano
225e is undoubtedly an improvement for chamber music because of the bass increase. It’s able to pick up the cello much better. Its greater smoothness and lushness works better for string ensembles. The more immersive soundstage and less grain makes it sound more high-end, at the cost of being slightly slower.
Paganini Caprice no. 1 played by Michael Rabin
225i is direct, upbeat, exciting, and toe-tapping. But also a little bit coarse. 225e is less scratchy and slightly more refined. But also slightly slower and less direct and exciting, with some of the aforementioned masking and also that steadiness.
Conclusion: SR225e certainly sounds different from SR225i. Many changes are clear improvements, such as the much wider, more immersive soundstage and a reduction in the amount of grain. Other changes are unavoidable trade-offs, such as note-centeredness in exchange for speed, and a bass increase that masks the treble. Choosing between them will depend on personal preferences.
Equipment:
Marantz CD6005
O2+ODAC
iPod 5.5
SR225i (borrowed)
SR225e (loaner from TTJV)
SR80i
SR80e (borrowed)
Music:
Bach. Great Organ Favorites. E. Power Biggs. CBS. 1972, 1988.
Bach. Organ Concertos BWV 592-596. Simon Preston. DG. 1988.
Perry Como. And I Love You So. RCA. 1973, 2001.
Handel. Heroes (Arias). Andreas Scholl. Decca. 1998, 1999.
Megadeth. Rust in Peace. Capitol. 1990.
Megadeth. Rust in Peace: Remixed & Remastered. Capitol. 2004.
Metallica. . . . And Justice for All. Blackened Recordings. 1988.
Metallica. Master of Puppets. Blackened Recordings. 1986.
Mozart. String Quintets, Vol. 1. Griller String Quartet, William Primrose. Vanguard. 1959, 1991.
Paganini. The Twenty-four Caprices. Michael Rabin. EMI. 1958, 1993.
Schubert. The Last Four Quartets. Quartetto Italiano. Philips. 1977, 1995.
I want to thank Todd Green at Todd the Vinyl Junkie (TTVJ) for expanding his Grado e-series loaner program to include SR225e and for loaning me one.
tl;wr lusher, more bass, masked treble, notes are centered, slightly slower, much better soundstage, less grain
I spent a week comparing 225e and, its predecessor, 225i. There is, as John Grado said, “a noticeable difference.” I noticed four main differences:
1. Bass and treble. There’s an increase in the bass quantity. There might not be much actual difference in the treble, but the bass masks the treble, which darkens the sound.
2. Pacing. The notes sound more on-center. A slight loss of speed accompanies that. It gives the new version a somewhat higher-end sound like GS1k. It’s more measured, but slightly less exciting.
3. Space. It has a much better soundstage. Although it’s not large, it’s finally decent.
4. Loudness. I consistently had to turn the volume down using 225e. I am not sure if the model itself is more sensitive or if there’s simply more going on and I needed to turn the volume down to catch all the details.
Grados are quite colored and not so genre-versatile as neutral headphones. What they play well, they play very well. I use my woodied SR80i for specific genres: solo organ, rock / metal, vocals, and chamber / strings.
I purposely used gear that has no special good or bad synergy with Grados, but is equipment that most members are likely to have—or something like it. I used an O2+ODAC and as a portable, an iPod 5.5. I wanted to borrow a small Fiio amp because I know many use them with Grados but my friend was out of town that week. Sorry.
Genre: Organ
Bach’s “Little Fugue” played by E. Power Biggs
225i has a simpler sound. There’s less going on. Consequently, it sounds less congested and cleaner. Although the treble can be piercing, it’s also alive and exciting.
The treble on 225e is somewhat masked. As a result, it sounds a little less exciting. Soundstage width is wider. The centered sound of the notes gives the music an inexorable or steady quality, which makes the organ sound both a little more magisterial but also a little slower.
Bach’s A minor Organ Concerto played by Simon Preston
225i sounds determined and immediate. The treble hits you forcefully, although it can sound chirpy or “MIDI-fied.” Overall, I love the hijinks. Some will find the sound thin and racing: I find it fleet-footed. What bass there is, is immediate and visceral. The treble has less body and is more piercing, but it really gets you.
On 225e, the concerto still sounds very good. The new e-series mix of bass and treble is on display: the more high-end-sounding centeredness and the masking. Because the treble is smoother though still Grado-like, the effect is less visceral but still forceful. The bass increase gives it a more immersive sound, but it’s a little less fleet-footed and slightly mellower. The bass itself is enjoyably thunderous but sometimes a little claustrophobic because of the relative smallness of the soundstage.
Genre: Metal
Metallica . . . And Justice for All (Blackened and Frayed Ends of Sanity)
225i gives you invigorating, sibilant cymbals. The kick drum is fast but really limp. Still, you can feel the music in your gut because the Grado treble picks up the guitar.
On 225e, the cymbals aren’t sibilant. The presentation is both more immersive and more detailed--you can simply hear more. The new bass emphasis makes Metallica sound like Megadeth (which at that time was a more bass-heavy band). The kick drum is still limp, but less so. The lushness actually makes it a little harder to distinguish the two guitarists from each other, and the smoother treble makes the guitar sound less exciting. 225e is mighty impressive, but again I prefer the hijinks of 225i. But in FEOS, 225e’s thickness is ultimately persuasive because it doesn’t give up too much drive.
Megadeth Rust in Peace (Holy Wars . . . The Punishment Due)
On 225i, it’s much easier to pick out the chords in a slamming Dave Mustaine solo because of the thinner overall presentation and the less lush sound. This gives the guitar a more differentiated texture. On 225e, the band sounds bigger and busier in a good way, but the darker tone affects guitar solos: there’s more warmth and lushness but the darkness makes everything mellower.
I was generally concerned about how well 225e would play poorly-mastered Loudness War-era tracks, so I compared the original release of Rust in Peace (1990) with the dreadful 2004 remaster. I concluded that there’s no reason to be concerned because the loudness war sounds equally bad on both Grados. It makes the treble sound worse on the i-series, and the bass sound worse on the e-series.
Genre: Vocal
“Killing Me Softly” sung by Perry Como
225i gives the singer’s voice a bit of note thickness. The background guitar has the necessary twang and plink. On 225e, increased bass adds warmth and body but also makes the presentation a little bit cluttered. On the plus side, the sound is less grainy. The most notable difference is in soundstage: I can feel the proper distance between Perry and me. I also encounter some of that steady inexorable feeling in the guitar instead of bite. The new e-series mix of more bass and masked Grado treble isn’t something I really cotton to. The masked treble gives me a slightly uncomfortable feeling like a woman flashing her thong at me—I want more, damn it!
Handel’s “Where’re You Walk” (from Semele) sung by Andreas Scholl
225i shreds the uppermost range a little; it can’t be attributed to the track itself. There are many grab-you-by-the-heart moments. 225e is better at conveying position and distance, whether near or far. The result is a trade-off. It sounds more life-like but less immediate. There’s none of the shredding in the upper range. Again, the mix is darker and the masking of the treble bugs me. Overall, 225e is more capable and proficient at vocals, but less exciting.
Genre: Strings
Schubert Quartet in A minor, D. 804 “Rosamunde” played by Quartetto Italiano
225e is undoubtedly an improvement for chamber music because of the bass increase. It’s able to pick up the cello much better. Its greater smoothness and lushness works better for string ensembles. The more immersive soundstage and less grain makes it sound more high-end, at the cost of being slightly slower.
Paganini Caprice no. 1 played by Michael Rabin
225i is direct, upbeat, exciting, and toe-tapping. But also a little bit coarse. 225e is less scratchy and slightly more refined. But also slightly slower and less direct and exciting, with some of the aforementioned masking and also that steadiness.
Conclusion: SR225e certainly sounds different from SR225i. Many changes are clear improvements, such as the much wider, more immersive soundstage and a reduction in the amount of grain. Other changes are unavoidable trade-offs, such as note-centeredness in exchange for speed, and a bass increase that masks the treble. Choosing between them will depend on personal preferences.
Equipment:
Marantz CD6005
O2+ODAC
iPod 5.5
SR225i (borrowed)
SR225e (loaner from TTJV)
SR80i
SR80e (borrowed)
Music:
Bach. Great Organ Favorites. E. Power Biggs. CBS. 1972, 1988.
Bach. Organ Concertos BWV 592-596. Simon Preston. DG. 1988.
Perry Como. And I Love You So. RCA. 1973, 2001.
Handel. Heroes (Arias). Andreas Scholl. Decca. 1998, 1999.
Megadeth. Rust in Peace. Capitol. 1990.
Megadeth. Rust in Peace: Remixed & Remastered. Capitol. 2004.
Metallica. . . . And Justice for All. Blackened Recordings. 1988.
Metallica. Master of Puppets. Blackened Recordings. 1986.
Mozart. String Quintets, Vol. 1. Griller String Quartet, William Primrose. Vanguard. 1959, 1991.
Paganini. The Twenty-four Caprices. Michael Rabin. EMI. 1958, 1993.
Schubert. The Last Four Quartets. Quartetto Italiano. Philips. 1977, 1995.
Theogenes
Headphoneus Supremus
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Great review, Claritas, thank you!!
ButtUglyJeff
Headphoneus Supremus
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That's exciting news. I'm last in line for this round of auditions, and 8 weeks from now I'll be sending my TH600s to Mark Lawton. Might these show up in time to help fill the emotional void?
Exciting news indeed....
krayziehustler
100+ Head-Fier
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I am not as eloquent on audiophile terms as many on here nor do I have many experiences with Grado products. But I was lucky enough to demo the SR225e and as a current owner of the SR225i this made more sense than trying to test out better models. Therefore I will only write in terms of the SR225i vs the SR225e.
Convenience:
I remember with annoyance how much it blew having to chase down a gold 3.5mm adapter plug to use my 225i's with my DAP. Not fun. at. all. I had my headphones and couldn't test that darn thing cuz i had to wait for the adapter to arrive since none of my equipment takes the large plug...Looks like Grado has finally committed to the traveling/portable users out there and includes a 3.5mm plug with a snap on adapter for larger systems. So I was enjoying music immediately rather than having to find a Grado adapter. So already the 225e's are coming ahead
Build: Both models are identical
Comfort: Same as above
Cable: While I didn't take out a tape measure just by eyeballing it I can tell that the cable on the 225e is much much shorter...aka...better for portable use. This is another 1000% change for the positive. Even when use my 225i at home it sucks having to find a solution for all the slack in the cable that was left after I plugged the end to my DAP. While shorter the quality seems the same.
Sound: I am a hip-hop head and about 90% of my music consists of hiphop (not the same as rap). For example Canibus - Fait Accompli just sounded stunning. Stunning....Artists that use heavy instrumentations in their beats and/or use samples frequently just sound so much fuller and lifelike. The bass is definitely better, more thump and not muddy at all. The treble is also toned down in the sense that the 225i sounds bright to me. The 225e sounds warmer. I prefer this much much more.
Efficiency:
My X5 can definitely drive the 225e's better than the 225i. With Hi-Gain on with the Volume at 75 the 225es were much louder. I would say it was about 5 ticks louder than the 225i. So 225i on Volume 80 is equal to about 225e on 75. Not a big difference but definitely noticeable. I can say with confidence (even though I did not try) that no one should have any problem using these with smartphones.
Now I NEED these in my life as I just look down on my 225i's with disgust...lol. Only question now is if I should spring for the 325e, I honestly don't know how Grado can improve on the 225e but I am now curious as hell
Convenience:
I remember with annoyance how much it blew having to chase down a gold 3.5mm adapter plug to use my 225i's with my DAP. Not fun. at. all. I had my headphones and couldn't test that darn thing cuz i had to wait for the adapter to arrive since none of my equipment takes the large plug...Looks like Grado has finally committed to the traveling/portable users out there and includes a 3.5mm plug with a snap on adapter for larger systems. So I was enjoying music immediately rather than having to find a Grado adapter. So already the 225e's are coming ahead
Build: Both models are identical
Comfort: Same as above
Cable: While I didn't take out a tape measure just by eyeballing it I can tell that the cable on the 225e is much much shorter...aka...better for portable use. This is another 1000% change for the positive. Even when use my 225i at home it sucks having to find a solution for all the slack in the cable that was left after I plugged the end to my DAP. While shorter the quality seems the same.
Sound: I am a hip-hop head and about 90% of my music consists of hiphop (not the same as rap). For example Canibus - Fait Accompli just sounded stunning. Stunning....Artists that use heavy instrumentations in their beats and/or use samples frequently just sound so much fuller and lifelike. The bass is definitely better, more thump and not muddy at all. The treble is also toned down in the sense that the 225i sounds bright to me. The 225e sounds warmer. I prefer this much much more.
Efficiency:
My X5 can definitely drive the 225e's better than the 225i. With Hi-Gain on with the Volume at 75 the 225es were much louder. I would say it was about 5 ticks louder than the 225i. So 225i on Volume 80 is equal to about 225e on 75. Not a big difference but definitely noticeable. I can say with confidence (even though I did not try) that no one should have any problem using these with smartphones.
Now I NEED these in my life as I just look down on my 225i's with disgust...lol. Only question now is if I should spring for the 325e, I honestly don't know how Grado can improve on the 225e but I am now curious as hell
Dude, thanks for sharing your impression! I think hip-hop is way underrepresented, especially in Grado threads. I also like your comments on the portable side of things.
Thanks!
Todd
Headphone Vinyl Meister
Member of the Trade: TTVJ Audio
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HI All,
The RS-1e and PS500e are now on their way to the first loaner participants. They shipped out on Friday (Grado Labs was kind enough to ship them 3 day air to me!). So those loaner programs are now live!!!
Thanks to everyone for their patience and to those who have written their reviews. I look forward to all of you who sign up, getting your time with the Grado headphones and hope you all have a great experience doing this!
Todd
The RS-1e and PS500e are now on their way to the first loaner participants. They shipped out on Friday (Grado Labs was kind enough to ship them 3 day air to me!). So those loaner programs are now live!!!
Thanks to everyone for their patience and to those who have written their reviews. I look forward to all of you who sign up, getting your time with the Grado headphones and hope you all have a great experience doing this!
Todd
kvtaco17
Headphoneus Supremus
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PD500e arrived today!
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Finally able to grab RS-1e. Currently in comparison with my old RS-1.
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Very quick Impression (~10 minutes) :
Not good. Well, at least with stock pads. I sense even stronger upper mid ~ low treble with less or same bass.
Not much air as well despite apparent treble boost. Surprisingly, to my ears, RS-1e's resolution is less than old RS-1.
With flat pads, things are a bit different but I must listen more.
(Left one is new RS-1e, right one is old RS-1. The original headband of old RS-1 had been replaced so it looks like new)
Not good. Well, at least with stock pads. I sense even stronger upper mid ~ low treble with less or same bass.
Not much air as well despite apparent treble boost. Surprisingly, to my ears, RS-1e's resolution is less than old RS-1.
With flat pads, things are a bit different but I must listen more.
(Left one is new RS-1e, right one is old RS-1. The original headband of old RS-1 had been replaced so it looks like new)
Very quick Impression (~10 minutes) :
Not good. Well, at least with stock pads. I sense even stronger upper mid ~ low treble with less or same bass.
Not much air as well despite apparent treble boost. Surprisingly, to my ears, RS-1e's resolution is less than old RS-1.
With flat pads, things are a bit different but I must listen more.
(Left one is new RS-1e, right one is old RS-1. The original headband of old RS-1 had been replaced so it looks like new)
Hint: Give them some burn-in time. I am burning in the GS-1000e's now because when I got them (second on the tour), the bass was...to be polite...non-existent and the soundstage very narrow. After 10 hours of burn-in (so far), the bass is blooming and the soundstage is opening up.
Cheers!
-HK sends
tanner116
100+ Head-Fier
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The SR225e is here! Updates to follow.
achristilaw
Headphoneus Supremus
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Very quick Impression (~10 minutes) :
Not good. Well, at least with stock pads. I sense even stronger upper mid ~ low treble with less or same bass.
Not much air as well despite apparent treble boost. Surprisingly, to my ears, RS-1e's resolution is less than old RS-1.
With flat pads, things are a bit different but I must listen more.
(Left one is new RS-1e, right one is old RS-1. The original headband of old RS-1 had been replaced so it looks like new)
I'm not a bowl fan, flats and some run in would paint a different picture.
Billheiser
Headphoneus Supremus
Subbed. On the list for Rs1e.
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