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The JVC FX850..Woodie perfection?. (A review)
Mar 31, 2015 at 3:23 AM Post #2,911 of 3,535
7s cameron said:
  I completely agree with James. To be honest I haven't found any positive gains from tip rolling. I always find myself coming back to the stock tips when it comes to all of my earphones. I haven't tried any other tips with my FX850 though...
Click to expand...

 
To add insult to injury, those Spinfit tips have the effect built into the tip itself (see red arrow). 
 

 
In my opinion that's poor acoustic design, you'd never want a constriction like that in the midst of a bore. Just my 2c, ymmv.
 
Mar 31, 2015 at 11:55 AM Post #2,912 of 3,535
james444 said:
 
7s cameron said:
  I completely agree with James. To be honest I haven't found any positive gains from tip rolling. I always find myself coming back to the stock tips when it comes to all of my earphones. I haven't tried any other tips with my FX850 though...
Click to expand...

 
To add insult to injury, those Spinfit tips have the effect built into the tip itself (see red arrow). 
 

 
In my opinion that's poor acoustic design, you'd never want a constriction like that in the midst of a bore. Just my 2c, ymmv.
Click to expand...

I guess it really depends on your preferences. If it changes the sound in a way that someone likes it could be a good thing. But if you are looking for as little sound alteration as possible then this wouldn't be a good thing. I still would love to try some Spinfits since they are liked by some and it is an interesting idea.
 
Mar 31, 2015 at 1:15 PM Post #2,913 of 3,535
james444 said:
To add insult to injury, those Spinfit tips have the effect built into the tip itself (see red arrow). 




In my opinion that's poor acoustic design, you'd never want a constriction like that in the midst of a bore. Just my 2c, ymmv.
Click to expand...


Agreed, the reason why I don't want to spend on these tips. If you look into BA drivers, and our canals space, the logic of waves and vibrations. The obstructions here is almost 30%.

So this is like having a loud speakers singing, then close the doors 30% in :wink: and sit behind it

Yeah...it looks comfortable, but I rather have something else :D
 
Mar 31, 2015 at 1:23 PM Post #2,914 of 3,535
I picked up a pair for $5 at CanJam from the Jaben table. I figured it would be worth a shot. Haven't tried them out just yet. Still reeling from this weekend.
 
Mar 31, 2015 at 2:40 PM Post #2,915 of 3,535
james444 said:
To add insult to injury, those Spinfit tips have the effect built into the tip itself (see red arrow). 




In my opinion that's poor acoustic design, you'd never want a constriction like that in the midst of a bore. Just my 2c, ymmv.
Click to expand...


Nice catch. This would effectively cut off treble extension to some degree. I'll have to see if I can get the spinfits measured against some stock silicone down the road. Too bad I didn't know this before I sent my Geek Verbs to Speakerphone for measurements or I'd have sent him a pair.
 
Mar 31, 2015 at 4:42 PM Post #2,916 of 3,535
7s cameron said:
  I guess it really depends on your preferences. If it changes the sound in a way that someone likes it could be a good thing. But if you are looking for as little sound alteration as possible then this wouldn't be a good thing. I still would love to try some Spinfits since they are liked by some and it is an interesting idea.
Click to expand...

Is does change the sound sig. as the way described by james444 to some extent but he kind of failed to mention the positives
IMO, what I experienced was widened soundstage due to longer tube, hence better imaging. Mostly subbass boost with some midbass boost. It's not extreme. Mids are kind of left unaffected, maybe slightly pushed back. Treble rolloff I didnt notice much but could be a fault with my ears lol. 
The seal is incredible which is impossible for my ears, so there's that. It's essentially Ortofon silicone grade. If you need a deep fit that's comfortable SpinFits are the way too go to, cannot stand triple flanged tips that look like a failed science experiment, nope.
 
Mar 31, 2015 at 4:51 PM Post #2,918 of 3,535
Mind you, this is all my opinion.
Not to mention boosting frequencies without digital EQ is beneficial to some. Most won't notice a treble roll imo unless you are particularly sensitive to high freqs
What I'm not getting, is unless you guys are going for a shallow seal, is that the silicone will bend once inserted regardless of SpinFit tech. so.... I'm thinking a lot of normal eartips will experience a reverse horn effect with a good seal. SpinFits just make it a lot more comfortable
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 2:58 AM Post #2,919 of 3,535
nehcrow said:
  Is does change the sound sig. as the way described by james444 to some extent but he kind of failed to mention the positives
Click to expand...

 
Actually, I've mentioned all the positives I've found. 
rolleyes.gif

 
In all fairness, I quoted Dopaminer's post on ear canals, bone structure and subjectivity in my first post on the Spinfits and I closed my most recent post with "Jm2c" and "ymmv".
 
Tbh, I wasn't even aware of their questionable design when I first got them, since I didn't bother to check out the marketing pics. I was expecting stellar sound quality and was kinda baffled that they sounded somewhat congested and blurred detail more than the Spiraldot tips (which, in turn, sound less clear than the TF10 tips imo). Thing is, I'm an old fart, well into presbyopia and too vain to wear glasses.
wink.gif
  So it wasn't until I switched on my magnifier workbench lamp that I discovered the reason for what I was hearing.
 
Personally, I think the Spinfits are inherently flawed. I'll try them with some of my brighter IEMs and if they don't sound good with those, they'll end up as giveaway to people who want to try them.
 
YMMV
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 3:28 AM Post #2,920 of 3,535
Okay, as a sacrifice in the name of science, and perhaps art, I have chopped a spinfit in half with a caving knife.  Just in case any myopic or otherwise people want to see what`s happening: 
 

 
If you believe that the intruding part will `cut high frequencies`, then you really shouldn`t use these tips.  If you feel they will `reduce bass frequencies`, you shouldn`t use these tips. If you feel this is an `inherently flawed design`, you shouldn`t use these tips.  I don`t doubt for a second that people are having these negative experiences with these tips. 
 
d
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 6:31 AM Post #2,921 of 3,535
james444 said:
   
Actually, I've mentioned all the positives I've found. 
rolleyes.gif

 
In all fairness, I quoted Dopaminer's post on ear canals, bone structure and subjectivity in my first post on the Spinfits and I closed my most recent post with "Jm2c" and "ymmv".
 
Tbh, I wasn't even aware of their questionable design when I first got them, since I didn't bother to check out the marketing pics. I was expecting stellar sound quality and was kinda baffled that they sounded somewhat congested and blurred detail more than the Spiraldot tips (which, in turn, sound less clear than the TF10 tips imo). Thing is, I'm an old fart, well into presbyopia and too vain to wear glasses.
wink.gif
  So it wasn't until I switched on my magnifier workbench lamp that I discovered the reason for what I was hearing.
 
Personally, I think the Spinfits are inherently flawed. I'll try them with some of my brighter IEMs and if they don't sound good with those, they'll end up as giveaway to people who want to try them.
 
YMMV
Click to expand...

They definitely work extremely well with brighter IEMs, give it a shot with the brightest in your collection and report back :)
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 8:56 AM Post #2,922 of 3,535
dopaminer said:
 Okay, as a sacrifice in the name of science, and perhaps art, I have chopped a spinfit in half with a caving knife.  Just in case any myopic or otherwise people want to see what`s happening: 
 
Click to expand...

 
Thanks for that, I've tried to measure the tips from the outside, but didn't go so far as to chop them. 
eek.gif
 Now rechecked, based on your picture, and the results are consistent.
 
The ratio between entry and narrowing is about 4/2.7mm which translates into a 50% reduction in cross-sectional area. That's only for the tips themselves and applies regardless of where you mount them.
That said, mounting the Spinfits on the FX850 will result in a ratio of roughly 5/2.7mm, since the nozzle exit is wider than the tip entry. So we're talking about a 70% reduction in cross-sectional area.
 
Without measurements, I wouldn't dare to say with certainty what that means for sound quality. But to people who can relate to my negative impressions, I'd be confident enough to offer it as an explanation.
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 11:16 AM Post #2,923 of 3,535
Well, the `reverse-horn effect` is interesting, and the math looks good, it`s just that none of it is aligning with what I heard from the FX850 with Spinfits.  And not with my current DN2K, which looks to have an even bigger bore than the 850, or with my Parterre.
 
If that pinched joint reduces the inner diameter enough to distort the sound, what is happening with these IEMs and their tiny pin-hole sound tubes?  (Layla, Angie, K10, UERM)
 

 

 

 
 
Aren`t sound waves microscopic? 
 
Apr 1, 2015 at 12:33 PM Post #2,924 of 3,535
dopaminer said:
Well, the `reverse-horn effect` is interesting, and the math looks good, it`s just that none of it is aligning with what I heard from the FX850 with Spinfits.  And not with my current DN2K, which looks to have an even bigger bore than the 850, or with my Parterre.

If that pinched joint reduces the inner diameter enough to distort the sound, what is happening with these IEMs and their tiny pin-hole sound tubes?  (Layla, Angie, K10, UERM)









Aren`t sound waves microscopic? 
Click to expand...



As a partial answer, the initial sound exit point from the drivers in the IEMs you're referring to are quite small, ie balanced armatures, and likely equal or near in size of those bores.












Dynamic drivers are usually much bigger than the bore of the sound tube. I suspect this is taken into consideration by the IEM designer when tuning to the target sound.


The harder answer regarding the constricting wall which I don't have the background to explain likely has to do with wavelength of the frequencies compared to the size, shape and composition of the "obstacle" in relation to the characteristics and properties of reflection, absorption, diffraction and transmission of sound waves.
 
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